Molecular Iodine: Could This Be A Game Changer For Dentistry?

[Jam]

No, I would not apply Lugol's, even the 2%, directly to the tooth, it is caustic to mucosa... for that, I would use SSKI. Or you could dilute the 2% down to 1%, that should be ok (but it will probably stain a bit... nothing that can't be easily removed with ascorbates)

 

[yerrag]

For the 2% you would need 10 drops in 100ml of water to achieve the same concentration, so scale back according to the amount of water you want to swish around. Please do not use tap water, the iodine will create toxic byproducts reacting with the chlorine.

Thanks. I can try that. There's like an outgrowth in the gum that lines the loose tooth. Like a pustule except that it has a gum color. If I press hard against it, some blood comes out. It won't go away. Will see if this Lugol's mouthwash can do the trick.

 

[Jam]

Thanks. I can try that. There's like an outgrowth in the gum that lines the loose tooth. Like a pustule except that it has a gum color. If I press hard against it, some blood comes out. It won't go away. Will see if this Lugol's mouthwash can do the trick.

Yeah I've had several of those. They're gingival abscesses. The last one I had, right around the time I started using iodine, disappeared after putting SSKI on it for a couple of days, but the 2% Lugol's will do as well.

 

[Gustav3Y]

Thanks for the graph comparing the mouth rinses.

Is there any advantage to using Potassium Iodide (Lugol 2% ) compared to Povidone-iodine (PVP-I)?
I actually have Lugol 15% in a bottle.
The second one is available for cheap in pharmacies and I have it for cleaning wounds.

 

[Jam]

Thanks for the graph comparing the mouth rinses.

Is there any advantage to using Potassium Iodide (Lugol 2% ) compared to Povidone-iodine (PVP-I)?
I actually have Lugol 15% in a bottle.
The second one is available for cheap in pharmacies and I have it for cleaning wounds.

Lugol's contains both Potassium Iodide and molecular Iodine. 15% (European labeling) is actually 5%. Lugol's is superior in all ways to PVP-I, chiefly because it does not contain Polyvinylpyrrolidone, just iodine and water.

 

[Gustav3Y]

Why they say 15% and is actually 5%? European labeling.

Then for now the consensus is Lugol 1% is enough for mouth rinse?

 

[Jam]

Then for now the consensus is Lugol 1% is enough for mouth rinse?

Yes, you don't want higher than 1% otherwise it will burn.

 

[Jam]

Why they say 15% and is actually 5%? European labeling

Lugol's has historically always been labeled using the concentration of molecular iodine (I2). 5% Lugol's means 5% I2. And then there is always double the concentration of Potassium Iodide (I-). So, in 5% Lugol's, there is 5% I2 and 10% I-. But in Europe, some of the Lugol's being sold is actually taking the total (5% + 10%) = 15%.

 

[Gustav3Y]

Alright, thanks for the explanation.

 

[yerrag]

@Jam thanks for the tips once again.

I did some calculations. I calculated the 10 drops (25 drops/ml) of 2% Lugol's in 100ml to come out to 800 ppm I2 (and 1600 ppm KI).

I'll use this in place of the 300 ppm chlorine dioxide I've been using for the past 3 weeks.

The chlorine dioxide mouthwash also has DMSO, to improve absorption, at 80 drops/100 ml. Will it help to add DMSO to this iodine mouthwash?

 

[Jam]

@Jam thanks for the tips once again.

I did some calculations. I calculated the 10 drops (25 drops/ml) of 2% Lugol's in 100ml to come out to 800 ppm I2 (and 1600 ppm KI).

I'll use this in place of the 300 ppm chlorine dioxide I've been using for the past 3 weeks.

The chlorine dioxide mouthwash also has DMSO, to improve absorption, at 80 drops/100 ml. Will it help to add DMSO to this iodine mouthwash?

(Using the standard 20 drops per ml, just to make the math easier)

10 drops of 2% Lugol's = 10mg I2. 10mg in 100ml of water = a concentration of 100ppm.

I think you have an extra 0 in your ppm values.

Yeah adding DMSO will definitely help to push the iodine deeper into the gums.

 

[yerrag]

I tried the mix. It seems to have kept the gingival abscesses in check. I did add a zero, it's 100 ppm. Thanks!

 

[Sergey]

@Sergey here's what my short research on K2 yields, that it helps with bone health, stimulating osteoblastogenesis and suppresses osteoclastogenesis:

Vitamin K2 stimulates osteoblastogenesis and suppresses osteoclastogenesis by suppressing NF-κB activation

Several bone protective factors are reported to exhibit stimulatory activities on bone formation coupled with inhibitory effects on bone resorption; one such factor is vitamin K2. Vitamin K species [K1 (phylloquinone) and K2 (menaquinone)] have long been associated with bone protective activities and are receiving intense interest as nutritional supplements for the prevention or amelioration of bone disease in humans. However, the mechanisms of vitamin K action on the skeleton are poorly defined. Activation of the nuclear factor κB (NF-κB) signal transduction pathway is essential for osteoclast formation and resorption. By contrast, NF-κB signaling potently antagonizes osteoblast differentiation and function, prompting us to speculate that NF-κB antagonists may represent a novel class of dual anti-catabolic and pro-anabolic agents. We now show that vitamin K2 action on osteoblast and osteoclast formation and activity is accomplished by down-regulating basal and cytokine-induced NF-κB activation, by increasing IκB mRNA, in a γ-carboxylation-independent manner. Furthermore, vitamin K2 prevented repression by tumor necrosis factor α (TNFα) of SMAD signaling induced by either transforming growth factor ß (TGFß) or bone morphogenetic protein-2 (BMP-2). Vitamin K2 further antagonized receptor activator of NF-κB (RANK) ligand (RANKL)-induced NF-κB activation in osteoclast precursors. Our data provide a novel mechanism to explain the dual pro-anabolic and anti-catabolic activities of vitamin K2, and may further support the concept that pharmacological modulation of NF-κB signal transduction may constitute an effective mechanism for ameliorating pathological bone loss and for promoting bone health.

While reference is not made to oral bone health specifically, I think it will help on the oral bone structure, especially when the bone that holds the teeth- the maxilla and the mandible - suffers loss by periodontal infection eating into it in advanced cases of periodontitis. This may explain also why people report better facial structure in using vitamin k2, as some threads in this forum would attest to. Perhaps, better bone structure is also a result of the mk7 having an antibiotic effect?

I don’t know. Anti plaque effect, which is surely due to lowered bacterial count, appears so quickly that I doubt it has anything to do with bone metabolism. From what I read vitamin K2 not only affects mineralization but also the immune reactions and saliva chemistry.
After all, if it works thats just great, even though we might not have an explanation how exactly it does that.

 

[yerrag]

@yerrag I'm currently on a "maintenance dose" of 25mg (4 drops of 5%) as I'm fairly certain that my body has achieved saturation after 2+ years of taking 100-1000mg daily. I never took any selenium as my diet is already high in it, and selenium toxicity is not something I want to mess with. In my opinion, a well-nourished individual with acceptable metabolism should immediately jump to 100mg daily in a very short period of time, as low doses may "feed the critters" that cause issues when chronic infections are present. The thinking is that Lugol's iodine becomes anti-oxidant and anti-inflammatory only at the higher dosages, and my experience is definitely in line with this. Unfortunately, as with many other "ancient" and/or unpatentable medicines, such as turpentine, methylene blue, etc. iodine has been stigmatized and swept under the rug by big pharma, and scientific studies (outside of Abraham et all) are few and far between.

ps. I would suggest adding some supplemental copper and magnesium when taking iodine, as iodine can seemingly deplete both minerals. Btw, iodine also seems to deplete iron. Some have successfully kept hemochromatosis in check by supplementing iodine.

Now that I'm using iodine for mouthwash, but still having oral intakes of chlorine dioxide, I'm now considering following your lead with intakes of iodine. The main reason is that we both have bad cases of periodontitis, yet we differ in our experience with regard to hypertension. I continue to have a bad case of it, while you didn't even suffer from it.

It may have to do with how my immune response differs from you. Even when you had periodontal issues (assuming you don't have it now), you never experienced high blood pressure. My impression is that you never experienced hypertension even before you dabbled in iodine. This makes me think that my immune system responded with producing substances that were inflammatory, possibly from its tendency to produce immune complexes arising from a vaccine I had a year or two before I experienced hypertension.

But regardless of whether my condition is caused by vaccination, it still remains to me that this is an immune complex issue that is causing my immune system to have an inflammatory response in my kidneys, which is manifested in hypertension. And I think that, having read your "few and far between" link, starting on iodine intake may be able to modify the immune response to the extent of tampering down on the inflammation.

What do you suggest how I begin therapeutic intake of iodine?

 

[TheSir]

p.s. I have very good gut health - in fact, I believe it is perfect. Yet, I have white tongue. I've been perplexed about this.

I'd like to have the pink tongue my cats have. They have good teeth. As does my sister, who also brags about her pink tongue. Grrr

I don't have plaque anymore, or at least it is at its bare minimum. I know, I used to be a plaque factory.

Yet, I have white tongue. So I don't think it is as much as plaque-related as much as periodontal bacteria-related.

So, I'll have to see if my white tongue goes away after using the molecular iodine of ioRinse.

I think having perfect gut health would inherently rule out gum diseases, as mouth is but the beginning of gut, and as such gut problems would be reflected in the mouth. What underlies white tongue and periodontal disease is weakened immune response: with properly functioning immune system the saliva would be potent enough to prevent bacteria and fungi from proliferating on the surface of the tongue and in the gumline alike. Now of course, the cause for weakened immune response could reside somewhere else than the gut, but gut is by far the most common culprit.

 

[yerrag]

I think having perfect gut health would inherently rule out gum diseases, as mouth is but the beginning of gut, and as such gut problems would be reflected in the mouth. What underlies white tongue and periodontal disease is weakened immune response: with properly functioning immune system the saliva would be potent enough to prevent bacteria and fungi from proliferating on the surface of the tongue and in the gumline alike. Now of course, the cause for weakened immune response could reside somewhere else than the gut, but gut is by far the most common culprit.

That may be true, if one were to start out with perfect gut health and maintain it. But if poor gut health leads to periodontal disease, from LPS that forms plaque, one could still fix his gut health to perfect, but could still be saddled with bacteria from the developed colony of bacteria in the gingival spaces in the gums. So perfect gut health could still exist with poor oral health. So the white tongue could be more a reflection of poor oral health than of poor gut health. At least that is my theory.

 

[TheSir]

That may be true, if one were to start out with perfect gut health and maintain it. But if poor gut health leads to periodontal disease, from LPS that forms plaque, one could still fix his gut health to perfect, but could still be saddled with bacteria from the developed colony of bacteria in the gingival spaces in the gums. So perfect gut health could still exist with poor oral health. So the white tongue could be more a reflection of poor oral health than of poor gut health. At least that is my theory.

It seems that in such case the gingival issues would exist only to the extent which saliva is unable to reach the diseased area. The saliva would be strong enough to prevent the gingival bacteria from spreading on and taking over the mouth and tongue at large.

 

[yerrag]

It seems that in such case the gingival issues would exist only to the extent which saliva is unable to reach the diseased area. The saliva would be strong enough to prevent the gingival bacteria from spreading on and taking over the mouth and tongue at large.

From theory or from your experience?

Maybe the white substance in the tongue is the remnant of antibacterial action of saliva then? Not such a bad thing then if that's the case.

 

[Jam]

Now that I'm using iodine for mouthwash, but still having oral intakes of chlorine dioxide, I'm now considering following your lead with intakes of iodine. The main reason is that we both have bad cases of periodontitis, yet we differ in our experience with regard to hypertension. I continue to have a bad case of it, while you didn't even suffer from it.

It may have to do with how my immune response differs from you. Even when you had periodontal issues (assuming you don't have it now), you never experienced high blood pressure. My impression is that you never experienced hypertension even before you dabbled in iodine. This makes me think that my immune system responded with producing substances that were inflammatory, possibly from its tendency to produce immune complexes arising from a vaccine I had a year or two before I experienced hypertension.

But regardless of whether my condition is caused by vaccination, it still remains to me that this is an immune complex issue that is causing my immune system to have an inflammatory response in my kidneys, which is manifested in hypertension. And I think that, having read your "few and far between" link, starting on iodine intake may be able to modify the immune response to the extent of tampering down on the inflammation.

What do you suggest how I begin therapeutic intake of iodine?

If I had to do it all over again, I would probably only supplement I- without the I2, because it is much easier (and faster) to saturate the body with iodine by taking a few drops (50mg per drop) of the much smoother and largely tasteless SSKI daily, than to take a much larger volume of the caustic and foul-tasting Lugol's. The body converts I- to I2 as needed. It makes sense, however, to continue local treatment with Lugol's, but I would probably not ingest it.

If SSKI is impossible for you to obtain, as it was for me, you could make it yourself by buying potassium iodide powder. It is then a simple matter of making a saturated solution by putting 1g of KI for every ml of distilled water, gradually, with a lot of shaking in between.

I would then start off with a full dose of SSKI (say 3 drops x 2) without any qualms... KI can be taken by the gram with absolutely no side effects. I would advise to stop with the chlorine. The reason is this:

Iodide modulates protein damage induced by the inflammation-associated heme enzyme myeloperoxidase - ScienceDirect

In the presence of H2O2 and Cl−, MPO generates the powerful oxidant hypochlorous acid (HOCl), with excessive formation of this species linked to multiple inflammatory diseases. In this study, we have examined the hypothesis that elevated levels of I− would decrease HOCl formation and thereby protein damage induced by a MPO/Cl−/H2O2 system, by acting as a competitive substrate. The presence of increasing I− concentrations (0.1–10 μM; i.e. within the range readily achievable by oral supplementation in humans), decreased damage to both model proteins and extracellular matrix components

You want to shift your MPO balance from chlorine to iodine, to save your periodontal tissues. My periodontal bone loss stopped after a few months on the iodine.

 

[LLight]

If you don't want to make your own KI solution, you can buy some here (very pricey for its production cost...):
Art Pharma® KI SOLUTION® Potassium Iodide Solutions - ArtPharma.com

I have one and the dropper is still in a good state (not like the one provided with standard lugol's solution which cracked) at least one year and half after I bought it.

But maybe not the right time to buy supplements at this price if you don't know if you'll receive it...