Noradrenaline/norepinephrine- Good Guy, or Bad Boy?

[Sapien]

I have seen a lot of conversation on the form about how elevated noradrenaline is problematic and may be implicated in plenty of conditions.

Yet, I have never heard peat say anything bad about noradrenaline, and even have seen a quote of him speaking favorably of it

“It increases oxygen consumption and carbon dioxide production, with many protective effects. Noradrenalin is a central part of brain functioning, and integrates energy metabolism throughout the body, releasing glucose from stored glycogen; it isn't a stress hormone”

i understand that this quote doesn’t disprove any possible detrimental effects caused by excess noradrenaline, but the statement “it isn’t a stress hormone” is pretty profound to me, considering noradrenaline is being used synonymously with adrenaline and stress this forum. It is important to be precise with language and not conflate these things

I know the mainstream view is that it is essential for focus and alertness, and have seen Andrew Huberman discuss it as something to seek to elevate in order to boost productivity etc.

Is this accurate?

I Would appreciate if anyone could help clarify the role of norepinephrine from a “peaty” perspective; I’m kinda confused :/

 

[Sapien]

If in fact noradrenaline is not harmful and its only it’s metabolite adrenaline that is a stress hormone, I wonder,

what are substances/behaviors that limit the conversion of noradrenaline to adrenaline?

 

[Limon9]

Noradrenaline can be vasoconstrictive, especially in extremities, and the relative hypoxia of reduced bloodflow is definitely "stressful."

 

[laoa]

Noradrenaline can be vasoconstrictive, especially in extremities, and the relative hypoxia of reduced bloodflow is definitely "stressful."

I can vouch for this, I've seen necrotic extremities in patients needing long term and or high dose nor, definitely not healthy this way.

 

[Sapien]

Noradrenaline can be vasoconstrictive, especially in extremities, and the relative hypoxia of reduced bloodflow is definitely "stressful."

Interesting. I think I saw Haidut saying Ray spoke favorably of clonidine, an A2 andrenoceptor (works in the opposite way as the a1 adrenoceptor that norepinephrine agonizes) agonist for high blood pressure, so makes sense.

I wonder tho if the body isnt capable of maintaining homeostasis by acting on both vasodilation and vasoconstriction mechanisms. For example maybe the body upregulates production of endogenous a2 agonists to offset this change in blood pressure. Unless the 2 sites are mutually exclusive in a sense.

Maybe this property of noradrenaline does not make it inherently harmful? Just spitballing, I have no knowledge of biochemistry. Playing devils advocate if you will

Thanks for the info Limon9

 

[Limon9]

Interesting. I think I saw Haidut saying Ray spoke favorably of clonidine, an A2 andrenoceptor (works in the opposite way as the a1 adrenoceptor that norepinephrine agonizes) agonist (lowers noradrenaline) for high blood pressure, so makes sense.

To me though this property of noradrenaline does not make it inherently harmful

I suspect the body capable of maintaining homeostasis by acting on both vasodilation and vasoconstriction mechanisms, thus this ability to increase blood pressure is not inherently bad. For example maybe the body upregulates production of endogenous a2 agonists to offset this change in blood pressure

It's definitely not-too-bad in the overall scheme of things. Intake of methyl donors is a major modulator of the balance between nor/adrenaline. Cold feet from niacinamide...

 

[Dainis Spainis]

Random things I know about norepinephrine.
It controls sleep - deep sleep, if you have low levels of NE - you get higher cortisol - less sleep.
Some people with sleep problems are using low dose yohimbine - which elevates NE and people can sleep.

PQQ supplement can help manage NE.

I see NE as the master hormone (neurotransmitter) regulating stress response in a precise manner, its absence is rising epinephrine and cortisol which are more aggressive stress hormones.

 

[Sapien]

Random things I know about norepinephrine.
It controls sleep - deep sleep, if you have low levels of NE - you get higher cortisol - less sleep.
Some people with sleep problems are using low dose yohimbine - which elevates NE and people can sleep.

Thanks for chiming in bro

Any literature discussing this impact of low NE on cortisol?

 

[Dainis Spainis]

There is no direct correlation probably. If low NE is due to low energy and/or metabolic deficiencies (copper, iron, vit c, b6 etc.) it is cortisol that comes and kicks on beta fatty acid oxidation to get this energy from fat.

 

[Sapien]

Bump

Still confused on this

 

[youngsinatra]

Low NE is definitely undesirable. It’s a huge part of feeling energetic, motivated and capable.

Dopamine and NE are very tightly correlated, due to their metabolic pathways.

Ray never spoke positively about high dopamine (rather warned from it‘s potential dangers!) and so I don’t think he would think that high NE is good either.

Like every neurotransmitter, it’s about balance, avoiding both low and high.

 

[Sapien]

Like every neurotransmitter, it’s about balance, avoiding both low and high

Isnt that kind of the middle man fallacy though

Dopamine is the universal neurotransmitter of everything good in this life, I would think having high dopamine is the goal of life (not in a hedonistic sense rather as a consequence of achieving values, good health etc.)

On the contrary one would want to keep serotonin, cortisol, low as they lower mood and have destructive effects on the body

Ray never spoke positively about high dopamine

True, i have noticed that.

One time though I remember Georgi asking him something about if dopamine is good on GE podcast and he gave a tentative answer like "yeah I think so" or something (paraphrasing obv)

rather warned from it‘s potential dangers!)

You remember where by any chance thats interesting

 

[youngsinatra]

I know people who have low cortisol on blood tests, and that is also very undesirable. I think Ray warned against high levels of cortisol (alongside serotonin, histamine etc.) but never said to slash it down. In the E-Mail Wiki he talked about raising low cortisol back to normal with thyroid and pregnenolone.

If you take a strong cortisol inhibitor, you’ll likely have hypersomnia, cannot get out of bed well, have little to no drive, suffer from low persistent energy throughout the day, dependent on stimulants to get by and have dizziness and so on.

Proper metabolism ensures adequate levels of all the hormones ideally.

 

[youngsinatra]

Trying to find the quote from Ray on dopamine right now.