Overfeeding Palm Oil Causes More Liver And Visceral Fat Accumulation Than Sunflower Oil

[Tom]

I think that´s likely. The article seems to suggest that a large part of the population have at least one defective gene, so... I also suspect I´ve had suboptimal liver function my whole life. When I was younger I suffered from regular terrible almost migraine like headaches. Then many years later I found out about lecithin, and even later about egg yolks, and I don´t have this problem anymore.

 

[EnoreeG]

I think you nailed it. Arachidonic acid is actually sold as a bodybuilding supplement to enhance muscle growth. It is also the chief precursor to the prostaglandins and as such is one of main drivers of chronic inflammation and cancer.

Question is really if AA rich foods cause cancer and inflammation for a person on an otherwise low PUFA diet (or low levels of PUFA in his body), after all AA has been consumed throughout our evolution likely in higher quantities than today, it is probably even lower than a hundred years ago as we don´t eat much organ meats anymore (poultry is now the chief source of AA for most people). It is the major long chain fatty acid PUFA in land animals (while DHA is more prevalent in sea/water species). Personally I eat about 2 egg yolks per day, I need this much to prevent headaches and some other inflammation (body pain) that appears to result after a few days or a week with no egg intake. This is likely due to the lecithin/choline content, yet I get better result from the regular eggs than the DHA enriched eggs. Also liver, another high AA source, has been used traditionally as part of various cancer "treatments".

As regards low fat versus high fat, I´m not sure I really get it, because (1) Peat say in one e-mail exchange that up to 50E% is okay if it is from high saturated fat foods, and (2) If one eat say 70% of energy as carbs, much more is going to turn into saturated fats, meaning palmitic acid first and then maybe over time to stearic acid, oleic acid, even mead acid. Is it really better to eat carbs that turns into palmitic acid than to eat palmitic acid and save the body this work? A higher fat intake will also mean more stable blood sugar and so one can go longer without having to eat and prevent some hormonal issues. If the diet is mostly fruits then blood sugar is going to be relatively stable, but it will still be more stable with more fat added in. If people get fat by eating fat it may have as much to do with lacking certain nutrients like those found in milk, but not so much in cheese (for example pantothenic acid and choline). There are advantages and disadvantages with low fat and high fat, the best is probably to keep it at around 1/3 of energy, as seems to be what Peat has suggested several times.

I like your inquiry into the AA component of fats Tom. There's so much information out there now on how AA is tied to inflammation. Mostly I think because it is derived from omega-6 and the overuse of refined omea-6 oils in the modern diet is closely tied to many inflammatory conditions. The majority of conclusions in the literature go something like this, in causation: [omega-6 (from commercial seed oils) > inflammation] and since [omega-6 > derives to AA > derives to eicosanoids (many are inflammatory)] the cursory conclusion is that where there's inflammation in the body (recognized because it is chronic), the cause is ultimately PUFA.

I can't see how anyone any longer can argue that, whatever percent oil is of one's diet, SFA and monounsaturates should always far outweight the PUFA. I also think most people are getting the idea that of all the PUFA one could encounter to intake, the commercial seed oils would be the first to eliminate.

What seems to pop up repeatedly though in Peatalk, is the idea, Peat inspired, that complete avoidance of PUFA would be ideal. Even though Peat admits one can't eat real food and avoid PUFA any more than one can avoid microbes in the gut.

The fact that PUFA restriction is a good thing, to get people off the 100 year-old margarine, Crisco, and seed oil diet, doesn't quite obliterate though the idea in science that the linoleic acid derived AA and all it's derivatives are effectively local hormones, and are continually used to excite inflammation when needed, or to quiet inflammation when needed, or reduce platelet clumping (eg. prostacyclin), promote sleep (PGD2), etc. It also doesn't address the proven science that linoleic acid is the only thing from which these different local hormones can derive, and that they are seemingly derived in exactly the quantities needed, when needed. Before derivation, the parent linoleic acid has a continual function to allow permeability in cell membranes and mitochondrial membranes, so in a healthy animal, it is ever-present in the cell membrane, at the ready - to be used to derive some of these many hormones.

Arachidonic Acid in the Body section

Eicosanoids deriving from AA

It seems that even heart health (and overall cardiovascular health) is dependent on the presence of AA in cell walls including vascular endothelium cell walls, where minute by minute, it can derive to prostacyclin which needs to be readily available to help thin the blood and thus reduce platelet-mediated thrombosis, among other things. Prostacyclin has a very short half-life, measured in seconds to just a few minutes. So it's obvious that having either parent linoleic acid (omega-6) or better yet, arachidonic acid available is a boon to cardiovascular health, as well as many other aspects of health that are dependent on the other eicosanoids derived from AA.

Prostaglandin I2 (prostacyclin)

To get all the details from this paper, you will have to click on the thumbnails of the pages within. Quite interesting, and at least a partial explanation of the value of AA within the body.

 

[Such_Saturation]

A fiber aficionado AND a PUFA apologist? Why I'd never have said my friend

 

[EnoreeG]

A fiber aficionado AND a PUFA apologist? Why I'd never have said my friend

I'd blush, but there's so much more to come....

 

[Such_Saturation]

A fiber aficionado AND a PUFA apologist? Why I'd never have said my friend

I'd blush, but there's so much more to come....

Come on, don't be a statistic... everybody doing that right now... try to look at Ray Peat's message beyond the message

 

[EnoreeG]

A fiber aficionado AND a PUFA apologist? Why I'd never have said my friend

I'd blush, but there's so much more to come....

Come on, don't be a statistic... everybody doing that right now... try to look at Ray Peat's message beyond the message

"Beyond?" "Go deeper into the muck or behind the veil?" Not me.

I'll look at other perspectives. There's so much more out there that clarifies and simplifies. :!:

 

[Such_Saturation]

A fiber aficionado AND a PUFA apologist? Why I'd never have said my friend

I'd blush, but there's so much more to come....

Come on, don't be a statistic... everybody doing that right now... try to look at Ray Peat's message beyond the message

"Beyond?" "Go deeper into the muck or behind the veil?" Not me.

I'll look at other perspectives. There's so much more out there that clarifies and simplifies. :!:

But why that signature, then?

 

[EnoreeG]

Depending on the particular Peatism, I've either moved on, or puzzle, stay and invite debate among the wisest.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Depending on the particular Peatism, I've either moved on, or puzzle, stay and invite debate among the wisest.

Check these:

Many students who are assigned to write about a poem of Blake’s are puzzled, and ask what it means. When they find out that they understand the words and the syntax, it turns out that the only problem was that they were taught that they had to “interpret” poetry. And that they don’t think he could have meant what he said. Most twentieth century students are too stodgy to accept Blake’s writing easily. In the 1950s, some people couldn’t understand Alan Ginsberg’s poetry, because they didn’t think anyone was allowed to say such things. That is the kind of problem students have with Blake.

Aristotelian motto: If the knower and the known form a functional system they are substantially the same.

Besides being aware of the conflicts of interest and the frequent insignificance of “statistical significance,” it's possible to recognize some features of the style of argument which is often used in science propaganda. A deductive style, rather than a descriptive and inductive style is extremely common in technical writing, and it should always lead the reader to question the principle from which deductions are made.

“Membranes are made from Essential Fatty Acids, therefore those fatty acids are nutritionally essential.” But cells can multiply in a culture medium that provides no fats. In biology, the most popular “principles” are simply dogmatic beliefs about genes and membranes.

When reading science articles, or listening to lectures, and even while privately thinking about experiences, it can be useful to watch for the improper use of assumptions. Our understanding has been shaped by the assumptions of our culture, and these assumptions present an attitude toward the nature of the world, in some cases even about the ontology that our philosophers have said is beyond our reach. “Evolution is shaped by random mutations,” “nuclear decay is random,” “the universe is expanding,” “entropy only increases,” “DNA controls inheritance,” “membrane pumps keep cells alive,” and all of the negative assumptions that have for so long denied the systematic generation of order.

 

[EnoreeG]

Moved on re: all those.

 

[Such_Saturation]

At last Great!

 

[Gadsie]

[ moderator edit: threads merged ]

This study has been posted here before, but people could not access the full study so I decided to post the full study.

Thirty-nine young and normal-weight individuals were overfed muffins high in SFAs (palm oil), or n-6 PUFAs (sun flower oil) for 7 weeks. Liver fat, visceral adipose tissue (VAT), abdominal subcutaneous adipose tissue (SAT), total adipose tissue, pancreatic fat, and lean tissue were assessed by magnetic resonance imaging.
Transcriptomics were performed in SAT. Both groups gained similar weight. SFAs, however, markedly increased liver fat compared with PUFAs and caused a twofold larger increase in VAT than PUFAs. Conversely, PUFAs caused a nearly threefold larger increase in lean tissue than SFAs. Increase in liver fat directly correlated
with changes in plasma SFAs and inversely with PUFAs.

Many people say this study is flawed because palm oil is not very saturated, but it is still much more saturated than sunflower oil, so it would not explain the findings of this study.
I'm not a troll, I eat less pufa than most people on this forum, but it is still a study that seems to be executed quite well and has some results that conflict with our beliefs.

Perhaps someone else can chime in on this.

 

[Milena]

And, what were levels of cofactors such as choline intake, vit A, vit E etc. ? Or were these not considered significant or just ignored? I'm not technically
up to reading most scientific papers .

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Because the liver disposes of PUFA when it can.

 

[raypeatclips]

The people in the study ate their normal diet, but one group at around 3 sunflower oil muffins a day, and the other 3 palm oil muffins a day? What about the rest of their diet? Also, as you say, there are better options to use for saturated fat sources than palm oil. I'm not convinced by this study enough to alter my diet.

 

[X3CyO]

bump