Plants Can Be Anesthetized, May Have Electronic Consciousness Like Humans

[pimpnamedraypeat]

@pimpnamedraypeat do you believe that there are high energy centers like titicaca and Mount Shasta. Etc.

Thst post you quoted is a perfect example of what I mean by steering into the schizophrenia.

I've never heard of those places but the first one makes sense as its on the andes which are fairly new electrical mountains.

But to answer your question, of course there are high energy centers! Different places in the world have staggeringly different properties. Naturally flowing water was though to be very spiritual and Viktor Schauberger thought it was alive. Might has to do with the ions the water creates as it flows. Mountains are very spiritual places. And then there's ley lines et cetera. Mothet earth is very alive even if we are numb to it.

I'd wager more mutation and speciation happens at these places than others. Also new life forms. That lake you mentioned, is it where those fish that ray talks about mutated?

 

[LUH 3417]

Thst post you quoted is a perfect example of what I mean by steering into the schizophrenia.

I've never heard of those places but the first one makes sense as its on the andes which are fairly new electrical mountains.

But to answer your question, of course there are high energy centers! Different places in the world have staggeringly different properties. Naturally flowing water was though to be very spiritual and Viktor Schauberger thought it was alive. Might has to do with the ions the water creates as it flows. Mountains are very spiritual places. And then there's ley lines et cetera. Mothet earth is very alive even if we are numb to it.

I'd wager more mutation and speciation happens at these places than others. Also new life forms. That lake you mentioned, is it where those fish that ray talks about mutated?

I’m not sure about the fish. I walked barefoot in the snow on panther valley on mount Shasta. Mount Shasta is supposed to be the first “earth chakra”. I was curious if you subscribed to the idea.

Maybe schizophrenia is a conspiracy keeping people who love each other away from each other, like the thing Zeus did to twins.

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

I’m not sure about the fish. I walked barefoot in the snow on panther valley on mount Shasta. Mount Shasta is supposed to be the first “earth chakra”. I was curious if you subscribed to the idea.

Maybe schizophrenia is a conspiracy keeping people who love each other away from each other, like the thing Zeus did to twins.

Schizophrenia is definitely real my friend. I don't suffer from the ugly sort but I do get bouts of dopamine spikes, especially when I drink too much coffee. But then again who doesn't.

Funny how the first chakra lies on active fault zone.

I don't know about chakras but that mountain is on the cascadia range...you might be interested in another mega post I did in the global warming thread that touched heavily on cascadia.

The lake is interesting too, I talked about it a while ago when I was referring to the global flood that took place thousands of years ago.

Heres what I wrote:

"They make great mention of a deluge, which happened in their country ... The Indians say that all men were drowned in the deluge, and they report that out of Lake Titicaca came one Viracocha, who stayed in Tiahuanaco, where at this day there are to be seen ruins of ancient and very strange buildings, and from thence came to Cuzco, and so began to multiply." -- José de Acosta, priest, 1590

"In the life of Manco Capac, who was the first Inca, and from whom they began to boast themselves children of the Sun and from whom they derived their idolatrous worship of the Sun, they had an ample account of the deluge. They say that in it perished all races of men and created things insomuch that the waters rose above the highest mountain peaks in the world. No living thing survived except a man and a woman who remained in a box and, when the waters subsided, the wind carried them ... to Tiahuanaco [where] the creator began to raise up the people and the nations that are in that region." -- Cristóbal de Molina, priest, 1572

It's actually a fascinating area... Look what shows up there

The Biggest Secrets Of The World: Ancient Mystery of Puma Punku Stones in Tiahuanaco

Only thirteen miles from the southern tip of the lake is the ancient archaeological site of Tiahuanaco, believed by some to have been left by the earliest of the high civilizations of America. Near the western end of the lake lie the ruins of Sillustani, with their huge stone burial towers, called chulpas. And in the lake itself, the mysterious ruins on the islands of Taquile and Amantani are silent reminders of the once-great civilizations in this region.

So the Incas have a noahs ark story and an origin story that centers around that lake....there are ancient ruin that tell of an advanced civilization...and there's a swastika. Intriguing, no? I'm sure all the other chakras have interesting histories.

 

[LUH 3417]

Schizophrenia is definitely real my friend. I don't suffer from the ugly sort but I do get bouts of dopamine spikes, especially when I drink too much coffee. But then again who doesn't.

Funny how the first chakra lies on active fault zone.

I don't know about chakras but that mountain is on the cascadia range...you might be interested in another mega post I did in the global warming thread that touched heavily on cascadia.

The lake is interesting too, I talked about it a while ago when I was referring to the global flood that took place thousands of years ago.

Heres what I wrote:

"They make great mention of a deluge, which happened in their country ... The Indians say that all men were drowned in the deluge, and they report that out of Lake Titicaca came one Viracocha, who stayed in Tiahuanaco, where at this day there are to be seen ruins of ancient and very strange buildings, and from thence came to Cuzco, and so began to multiply." -- José de Acosta, priest, 1590

"In the life of Manco Capac, who was the first Inca, and from whom they began to boast themselves children of the Sun and from whom they derived their idolatrous worship of the Sun, they had an ample account of the deluge. They say that in it perished all races of men and created things insomuch that the waters rose above the highest mountain peaks in the world. No living thing survived except a man and a woman who remained in a box and, when the waters subsided, the wind carried them ... to Tiahuanaco [where] the creator began to raise up the people and the nations that are in that region." -- Cristóbal de Molina, priest, 1572

It's actually a fascinating area... Look what shows up there

The Biggest Secrets Of The World: Ancient Mystery of Puma Punku Stones in Tiahuanaco




So the Incas have a noahs ark story and an origin story that centers around that lake....there are ancient ruin that tell of an advanced civilization...and there's a swastika. Intriguing, no? I'm sure all the other chakras have interesting histories.

Mt. Shasta has a lot of lenticular clouds and legends of lemurians abound. Some people think it looks like a space ship landing site and that it’s very hot at the very top.

The swatstika is an ancient symbol of the four directions or maybe elements. I’m sure there’s a lot more to it. The nazis tilted it though.

My phone auto corrects nazis into axis. Ha.

Schizophrenia is real to people who don’t take the time to care or understand other people. The constant need to exert energy and speak excitedly about things feels like a hot spring bubbling. Most of the things schizophrenics say are honest and true, maybe it appears as misinterpreted metaphorical language, but that doesn’t mean it lacks depth or truth. Schizophrenics are notoriously have to “love” because of this barrier in communication.

 

[LUH 3417]

Schizophrenia is definitely real my friend. I don't suffer from the ugly sort but I do get bouts of dopamine spikes, especially when I drink too much coffee. But then again who doesn't.

Funny how the first chakra lies on active fault zone.

I don't know about chakras but that mountain is on the cascadia range...you might be interested in another mega post I did in the global warming thread that touched heavily on cascadia.

The lake is interesting too, I talked about it a while ago when I was referring to the global flood that took place thousands of years ago.

Heres what I wrote:

"They make great mention of a deluge, which happened in their country ... The Indians say that all men were drowned in the deluge, and they report that out of Lake Titicaca came one Viracocha, who stayed in Tiahuanaco, where at this day there are to be seen ruins of ancient and very strange buildings, and from thence came to Cuzco, and so began to multiply." -- José de Acosta, priest, 1590

"In the life of Manco Capac, who was the first Inca, and from whom they began to boast themselves children of the Sun and from whom they derived their idolatrous worship of the Sun, they had an ample account of the deluge. They say that in it perished all races of men and created things insomuch that the waters rose above the highest mountain peaks in the world. No living thing survived except a man and a woman who remained in a box and, when the waters subsided, the wind carried them ... to Tiahuanaco [where] the creator began to raise up the people and the nations that are in that region." -- Cristóbal de Molina, priest, 1572

It's actually a fascinating area... Look what shows up there

The Biggest Secrets Of The World: Ancient Mystery of Puma Punku Stones in Tiahuanaco




So the Incas have a noahs ark story and an origin story that centers around that lake....there are ancient ruin that tell of an advanced civilization...and there's a swastika. Intriguing, no? I'm sure all the other chakras have interesting histories.

Hard to love*

 

[Travis]

"I have been continually amazed that the simplicity with which Earth expansion answers so much of the Earth's evolution has been so delayed in universal adoption." -- Klaus A. Vogel, engineer, 1983

"The continental drift may be explained by an expanding Earth only." -- Laszlo Egyed, geophysicist, 1960

"All plate-tectonic reconstructions, commence by closing the Atlantic. If instead of closing the Atlantic we begin by closing the Pacific on a globe of the present size, the reconstructed Pangea again fills a hemisphere, but an expanded Atlantic now occupies the hidden hemisphere, an absurdity which is only removed by Earth expansion." -- S. Warren Carey, geologist, 1996

"As a geologist, I insist that the Earth has expanded, and leave it as a cosmological problem of the whole universe." -- S. Warren Carey, geologist, 1996

"The many geophysical and geological paradoxes that have accumulated during the past two or three decades are apparently the consequences of forcing observational data into an inadequate tectonic model."-- Karsten M. Storetvedt, geophysicist, 1992

"Growth of the earth episodically throughout geological time is abundantly evident." -- C. Warren Hunt, geologist, 1992

"The balance of evidence seems to require an expanding Earth." -- Derek V. Ager, biogeographer, 1986

"The hypothesis of an expanding Earth is inescapable." -- Derek V. Ager, biogeographer, 1986​

That is certainly interesting. This is the first time I've heard about the idea of the expanding Earth, and it certainly feels intuitively true. The 'Plate Tectonic' idea has always seemed odd, but the way Brazil nestles within Africa almost necessitates the idea—or that of an expanding Earth, which is better. It's amusing how bad ideas take hold and persist because scientists cannot admit that they've 'been had,' that they could have believed something so ridiculous for years/decades/centuries. Good thing for the internet: now people can freely share information today that could be destined to displace the obviously wrong and impossible textbook ideas 50 years from now.

Bearing in mind that scientists don't understand how anesthesia works to begin with in humans and other animals, let alone plants and just because plants react in a de-sensitory nature doesn't mean it is the same type of affect and certainly doesn't infer consciousness.. Perhaps you can explain?

I think some scientists know, and I think @Such_Saturation might agree that Dr. Hameroff would—if were asked—present a microtubule‐based theory of general anesthesia. This has always presented challenges for explanation because general anesthetics don't have 'receptors' and some of them are completely inert. Take the Noble Gasses for instance: These have a full valence shell of electrons and cannot practically react with anything; they have no charge and remain as one atom, unconnected, throughout extreme conditions. It was dihydrogen (H₂) gas which took down the Hinderberg, not the anesthetic and Noble helium which you could hold a blowtorch too without change. All Noble Gasses (Group 18) are anesthetic and all similarly unreactive.

Linus Pauling took a shot at this, and hypothesized a clathrate cage of water around the anesthetic gas. Surely, they do form clathrates but can this really explain anesthesia?

click to embiggen: Pauling image depicting water 'cage' formed around inert gasses.

I don't think so. He does present a good semi‐logarithm plot relating anesthetic potency to clathrate formation but this is essentially just 'lipid solubility' in reverse; just as convincing correlations can be found between anesthetic potency and solubility in olive oil, or phosphatidylcholine—as shown a decade later:

click to embiggen: Janoff plot showing Pauling plot in reverse—having anesthetics interacting with the lipid phase.

So the more lipid‐soluble a gas is: the less water‐soluble it is also, by definition. The less water‐soluble a molecule is: the less it interacts with individual H₂O molecules—with a corresponding propensity to form a clathrate cage. There's little doubt they can this in the body as well, but only until they reach a fatty membrane—like myelin—they can dissolve in. It's not so much that these gasses have affinity for lipids, it's probably better to say they are forced towards them by water and excluded—water prefers to interact with other polar species and itself.

'Anesthetics are referred to as follows: 1, benzyl alcohol; 2, ethanol; 3, propanol; 4, butanol; 5, pentanol; 6, hexanol; 7, heptanol; 8, octanol; 9, honanol; 10, halothane; 11, methoxyflurane; 12, isoflurane; 13, fluroxene; 14, pentobarbital; 15, phenobarbital; 16, thiopental; 17, acetone; 18, cyclopropane; 19, xenon; 20, carbon tetrafiuoride; 21, sulfur hexafluoride.' ―Janoff​

Microtubules are probably what create consciousness and plants also have them too; they are polymers made up of repeating α, β, and γ-tubulin subunits. In the lumen of microtubules exists a repeating array of resonant amino acid side chains representing: the indole of tryptophan, the phenol of tyrosine, the pheyl of phenylalanine, and they imidazole of histidine. Within their short sub-nanometer (~5‧Å) spacing, these resonant molecular rings are capable or radiationless Förster resonance energy transfer: A conduction of energy which is more like dipole–dipole induction than a sequential and iterative fluorescent absorption⟶emission.

click to embiggen

So nerve conduction very well could depend on the integrity of the spacing between the π‐stacked phenylalanine, tyrosine, tryptophan, and histadine side‐chains of the microtubule lumen. These microtubules can be found found bundled like fascia within nerves, surrounded by myelin and running parallel to the axis. The myelin is composed of ~80% lipids composed mostly of progesterone, pregnenolone, cholesterol, sphingomyelin, and phospholipids . . . including phosphotidylcholine, the solubility in which has been shown to correlate with anesthetic potency more than anything:

The walls of the microtubules have fenestrations which can admit gasses up to 10‧Å in size, but the general anesthetics are never even that big. The biggest atom is cesium at ~3 angstroms, and all the noble gasses—and even methane—are smaller yet.

It seems pretty clear what's going on, in my mind, and it seems inescapable that these inert anesthetics are simply percolating through the myelin and disrupt nerve speed within the microtubule lumen. Not all microtubules have thick myelin, and there's also going to be gaps in the steroid lamination when they do; the phospholipids probably wouldn't present much of an obstruction.

Plants also have microtubules; these can be visualized by raising antibodies to the monomer, α‐tubulin, and then conjugating said antibody to a fluorophore which absorbs and emits at certain known frequencies. Although not bundled and surrounded by myelin as in nerves, the images below represent cytoskeletal microtubules of plant cells:

So I think microtubules are the physical basis for the relatively primitive nervous system of the plant. From this, it would be expected that general anesthetics would anesthetize plants just as well.

[1] Szent-Györgyi, Albert. "On resonance transfer of excitation energy between aromatic aminoacids in proteins." Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (1958)
[2] Pauling, Linus. "A molecular theory of general anesthesia." Science (1961)
[3] Förster, T. "Transfer mechanisms of electronic excitation energy." Radiation Research Supplement (1960)
[4] Janoff, Andrew S."Correlation of general anesthetic potency with solubility in membranes." Biochimica et Biophysica Acta (BBA)-Biomembranes (1981)
[5] Smith, Raymond A. "The solubility of anesthetic gases in lipid bilayers." Biochimica et Biophysica Acta (BBA)-Biomembranes (1981)
[6] Lloyd, Clive W. "Cytoplasmic microtubules of higher plant cells visualised with anti-tubulin antibodies." Nature (1979)
[7] Newcomb, Eldon H. "Plant microtubules." Annual Review of Plant Physiology (1969)
[8] Li, Huilin. "Microtubule structure at 8 Å resolution." Structure (2002)
[9] Craddock & Hameroff. "The feasibility of coherent energy transfer in microtubules." Journal of the Royal Society Interface (2014)​

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

Mt. Shasta has a lot of lenticular clouds and legends of lemurians abound. Some people think it looks like a space ship landing site and that it’s very hot at the very top.

The swatstika is an ancient symbol of the four directions or maybe elements. I’m sure there’s a lot more to it. The nazis tilted it though.

It's found in a lot of different places....it has to do with pre deluvian civilizations. Its one of their symbols.

I dont know the first thing about lemurians but if aliens exist it wouldn't surprise me that they pay a visit to mt.shasta or lake tititaca. I reckon they came down before the flood and warned some people, then back afterwards and helped humanity get back on course...didn't work out too well obviously.

That is certainly interesting. This is the first time I've heard about the idea of the expanding Earth, and it certainly feels intuitively true. The 'Plate Tectonic' idea has always seemed odd, but the way Brazil nestles within Africa almost necessitates the idea—or that of an expanding Earth, which is better. It's amusing how bad ideas take hold and persist because scientists cannot admit that they've 'been had,' that they could have believed something so ridiculous for years/decades/centuries. Good thing for the internet: now people can freely share information today that could be destined to displace the obviously wrong and impossible textbook ideas 50 years from now.

The plate tectonic idea is ridiculous. It's quite obvious to anyone whos willing to think to themselves that the earth has grown. Unless people are willing to make the absurd statement that planets pop into existence the exact size they are now then they must admit that planets were once smaller snd they grew to current size.

 

[Xisca]

having consciousness does NOT require a nervous system

I also vote for this to be true!

Apart from studiying nervous system, I also study cranio-sacral and plants.

1- Our cells have some NS-like functionning. All cells are like "electrically informed" of what all the others are doing.

2- Plants seem to have a form of nervous system in their roots. Plants communicate and even exchange nutrients at distance by using fungi webs in the soil. They seem to have the same sort of symbiosis animal kindom has with bugs in their guts. More over, they are affected by exactly the same sort of diseases as us, virus, microbs and fungi.

They also communicate by pheromones, as some can prepare for danger thanks to the defense reaction of other plants.
It is also known that adverse conditions make plants cooperate much more than annual plants living in nice most conditions, and who just think about themselves going to seed.

I even have started to write plants informations in a new way, talking about their tastes and dislikes! Nothing new except the way to considere plants, showing in the words I used... Plants really have different likings according to their species. Some are also more gregarious than others.

I also know about another phenomonon, which is the possibility of plants and animals to communicate. Well, I tended to think that it just meant that the same conditions created both effects... But countryside people know that the number of youngs curiously correlates with the crop of trees... Like litters in spring and autumn crops... How do animals know the amount of food their youngs will have and how they do it, to get more or less children?

Then, when talking about shamanism, shamans have said they communicate directly with plants, in order to ask for their properties. It is for example the only way to explain how they found out about making curare with no laboratory! If you do not know this, this is a very complex mix of many plants for a very specific effect. Some scientists have decided to believe tham and have found out that it might be shamans, or some of them, sharpen their communicative capacities and communicate at micro-electric level.

I am just having the idea that due to the motivationn of some vegetarians (not all), this sort of news might motivate some to try breatharianism! I indeed already know some vegans who dream about not having to eat. For myself, it just all mean we have to feel sorry and respectful for food, and more than anything else thankful for our food! And thankful to the forces of nature at play, and respectful ofr what we still do not know. After all, not so far ago, it was thought that animals and babies did not feel and were screaming out of reflexes. And there has been the question about sorting out if all humans had a soul... We all have life and have to take some lifes for living, this could be enough, don't you think so?

 

[Travis]

The plate tectonic idea is ridiculous. It's quite obvious to anyone whos willing to think to themselves that the earth has grown. Unless people are willing to make the absurd statement that planets pop into existence the exact size they are now then they must admit that planets were once smaller snd they grew to current size.

It's gotta be atomic fission, because there is no way to explain the decrease in density. By the conservation of matter/mass, you would need the primordial—and much smaller—Earth to have essentially the same mass as the one now. I think you can look at the densities on the periodic table and show that atomic fission should decrease density (found in each periodic square) and increase volume:

Uranium is about twice as massive as tin, yet has about three times the density. Upon further fission into three equal parts—to become potassium*—it would reduce roughly eightfold in density. Nearly every fissile event should cause an decrease in density, or expansion. When uranium is cleaved in roughly six equal parts the density decreases 24× and the volume increases by a corresponding amount.

It's either fission in the core or magic; I cannot think of any other logical explanation. At one time the Earth must have consisted mostly of elements such as tungsten, gold, uranium, and/or other elements of similar density.

[*] I know that the fission series of uranium isn't quite like this, but just wanted to keep it simple. The point stands no matter what decay path it takes to the lighter elements. ​

 

[LUH 3417]

I also vote for this to be true!

Apart from studiying nervous system, I also study cranio-sacral and plants.

1- Our cells have some NS-like functionning. All cells are like "electrically informed" of what all the others are doing.

2- Plants seem to have a form of nervous system in their roots. Plants communicate and even exchange nutrients at distance by using fungi webs in the soil. They seem to have the same sort of symbiosis animal kindom has with bugs in their guts. More over, they are affected by exactly the same sort of diseases as us, virus, microbs and fungi.

They also communicate by pheromones, as some can prepare for danger thanks to the defense reaction of other plants.
It is also known that adverse conditions make plants cooperate much more than annual plants living in nice most conditions, and who just think about themselves going to seed.

I even have started to write plants informations in a new way, talking about their tastes and dislikes! Nothing new except the way to considere plants, showing in the words I used... Plants really have different likings according to their species. Some are also more gregarious than others.

I also know about another phenomonon, which is the possibility of plants and animals to communicate. Well, I tended to think that it just meant that the same conditions created both effects... But countryside people know that the number of youngs curiously correlates with the crop of trees... Like litters in spring and autumn crops... How do animals know the amount of food their youngs will have and how they do it, to get more or less children?

Then, when talking about shamanism, shamans have said they communicate directly with plants, in order to ask for their properties. It is for example the only way to explain how they found out about making curare with no laboratory! If you do not know this, this is a very complex mix of many plants for a very specific effect. Some scientists have decided to believe tham and have found out that it might be shamans, or some of them, sharpen their communicative capacities and communicate at micro-electric level.

I am just having the idea that due to the motivationn of some vegetarians (not all), this sort of news might motivate some to try breatharianism! I indeed already know some vegans who dream about not having to eat. For myself, it just all mean we have to feel sorry and respectful for food, and more than anything else thankful for our food! And thankful to the forces of nature at play, and respectful ofr what we still do not know. After all, not so far ago, it was thought that animals and babies did not feel and were screaming out of reflexes. And there has been the question about sorting out if all humans had a soul... We all have life and have to take some lifes for living, this could be enough, don't you think so?

@Xisca this is really fascinating. I’ve been thinking about your posts on ACV and bitter greens and incorporating both of those seems helpful to my digestion.

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

It's gotta be atomic fission, because there is no way to explain the decrease in density. By the conservation of matter/mass, you would need the primordial—and much smaller—Earth to have essentially the same mass as the one now. I think you can look at the densities on the periodic table and show that atomic fission should decrease density (found in each periodic square) and increase volume:

Uranium is about twice as massive as tin, yet has about three times the density. Upon further fission into three equal parts—to become potassium*—it would reduce roughly eightfold in density. Nearly every fissile event should cause an decrease in density, or expansion. When uranium is cleaved in roughly six equal parts the density decreases 24× and the volume increases by a corresponding amount.

It's either fission in the core or magic; I cannot think of any other logical explanation. At one time the Earth must have consisted mostly of elements such as tungsten, gold, uranium, and/or other elements of similar density.

[*] I know that the fission series of uranium isn't quite like this, but just wanted to keep it simple. The point stands no matter what decay path it takes to the lighter elements. ​

It's not fission mate. You're thinking about this too obliquely. The planets aren't islands and they're not closed systems. They receive a large input of matter and energy from extra terrestrial sources. Bierkland currents are one example. High speed cosmic rays accumulate at the core. They also tend to be made out of protons. Protons combine with electrons to form matter yea? There are positive electron holes deep inside the earth.

Earth as a Dynamic Body – Electrically and Electromagnetically - HeartMath Institute

Maybe burst of protons strip the electrons and make atoms yea?

One can see how a sudden surge of these building blocks of matter could lead to a growth spurt in the earth.

 

[LUH 3417]

It's not fission mate. You're thinking about this too obliquely. The planets aren't islands and they're not closed systems. They receive a large input of matter and energy from extra terrestrial sources. Bierkland currents are one example. High speed cosmic rays accumulate at the core. They also tend to be made out of protons. Protons combine with electrons to form matter yea? There are positive electron holes deep inside the earth.

Earth as a Dynamic Body – Electrically and Electromagnetically - HeartMath Institute

Maybe burst of protons strip the electrons and make atoms yea?

One can see how a sudden surge of these building blocks of matter could lead to a growth spurt in the earth.

introducing the Bremen lectures, Heidegger observes that because of technology, “all distances in time and space are shrinking” and “yet the hasty setting aside of all distances brings no nearness; for nearness does not consist in a small amount of distance.” The lectures set out to examine what this nearness is that remains absent and is “even warded off by the restless removal of distances.” As we shall see, we have become almost incapable of experiencing this nearness, let alone understanding it, because all things increasingly present themselves to us as technological: we see them and treat them as what Heidegger calls a “standing reserve,” supplies in a storeroom, as it were, pieces of inventory to be ordered and conscripted, assembled and disassembled, set up and set aside. Everything approaches us merely as a source of energy or as something we must organize.

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

introducing the Bremen lectures, Heidegger observes that because of technology, “all distances in time and space are shrinking” and “yet the hasty setting aside of all distances brings no nearness; for nearness does not consist in a small amount of distance.” The lectures set out to examine what this nearness is that remains absent and is “even warded off by the restless removal of distances.” As we shall see, we have become almost incapable of experiencing this nearness, let alone understanding it, because all things increasingly present themselves to us as technological: we see them and treat them as what Heidegger calls a “standing reserve,” supplies in a storeroom, as it were, pieces of inventory to be ordered and conscripted, assembled and disassembled, set up and set aside. Everything approaches us merely as a source of energy or as something we must organize.

Is my estimation of the situation wrong? I do spend a lot of time around technology.

 

[LUH 3417]

Is my estimation of the situation wrong? I do spend a lot of time around technology.

I don’t have the authority to tell you what is right or wrong. Heidegger seems to be concerned with being and with the inherent nature of things. I keep thinking it’d be great if someone would connect ancient Greek, PIE, and the sino-Tibetan tree so that we could have a more universal understanding of the words “is” “be” “do” etc. but here I am thinking like a scientist again.

I wonder if pictographs were the first eternal forms and if shamans in East Asia could “see” words and thought forms in nature.

 

[Travis]

It's not fission mate. You're thinking about this too obliquely. The planets aren't islands and they're not closed systems. They receive a large input of matter and energy from extra terrestrial sources. Bierkland currents are one example. High speed cosmic rays accumulate at the core. They also tend to be made out of protons. Protons combine with electrons to form matter yea? There are positive electron holes deep inside the earth.

Earth as a Dynamic Body – Electrically and Electromagnetically - HeartMath Institute

Maybe burst of protons strip the electrons and make atoms yea?

One can see how a sudden surge of these building blocks of matter could lead to a growth spurt in the earth.

I suppose cosmic rays (α-particles) could condense to form atoms, but in that case you'd expect then the Earth to grow in shells. I don't see how cosmic rays can be expected to increase matter at the Earth's core. But even with a constant amount of matter, volume can be increase through nuclear fission—which would also explain the high temperature of the Earth's core.

 

[LUH 3417]

I suppose cosmic rays (α-particles) could condense to form atoms, but in that case you'd expect then the Earth to grow as shells. I don't see how cosmic rays can be expected to increase matter at the Earth's core. But even with the same amount of matter, volume can be increase through nuclear fission—which would also explain the high temperature of the Earth's core.

Doesn’t it grow like a shell? Chirality?

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

I suppose cosmic rays (α-particles) could condense to form atoms, but in that case you'd expect then the Earth to grow in shells. I don't see how cosmic rays can be expected to increase matter at the Earth's core.

The cosmic rays tunnel through to the core via the north and south poles where there's no magnetic field to deflect them. It's not just cosmic rays, it's bierkland currents, solar wind, and flux transfer events. It's a growth in mass not volume.

Ray is a fan of growing earth:

I’ve never known a literal flat earther, but I’ve known several physicists and mathematicians who passionately believe that number is the basis of existence. Their timeless and colorless world is worse than a simply flat world. Our culture is swamped with highly authoritative disinformation; maybe the flat-earthers can be persuaded to be skeptical about other elements of the predominant world view. In Generative Energy I wrote about the expanding earth theory, and I’ve commented favorably on Halton Arp’s work on galaxies, and Kozyrev’s theory of stellar energy, Hannes Alfvén’s plasma cosmology—nothing that’s easy to interpret as flatness.

 

[chispas]

No, that's the whole point. The article talks about this thorny issues as up until now it was assumed that consciousness required nervous system and only such organisms could be anesthetised. So, the fact that organisms without nervous system also respond to anesthetics suggests that consciousness can exist in much "lower" organisms than mammals or even insects. Peat spoke about bacteria having intelligence, and I posted a study on "inanimate" matter capable of learning. So, it seems pretty much any piece of matter is capable of feats thought to be unique to organisms with a nervous system.
A Piece Of Dough Can Learn Just Like Animals And Humans

Daniel Dennett has been on to this guya while.

 

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Also, mitochondria have their own DNA that is seperate from our own. Because at one point, they were external to human beings. We are their host.

 

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I just found a cool article: Carey, S. Warren. "The expanding earth—an essay review." Earth-Science Reviews (1975)

'The Wegener bombshell of gross continental separation promptly triggered the concept of earth expansion as an alternative to drift, but books in German by Lindemann (1927), Bogolepow (1930), Hilgenberg (1933), and Keindl (1940) got little attention in the English literature. A second wave by Egyed (1956), Carey (1958), Heezen (1959), Barnett (1962), Brosske (1962), Neyman (1962), Creer (1965), Dearnley (1965), Jordan (1966), Sterner (1967), and Meservey (1969) ran against the orthodox tide, which, in geology, is lethal.' ―Carey​

So this is not an entirely new idea. The 'hardest swallow' of the plate tectonic theories could very well be the 'subduction zones,' which are assumed to be trenches on the ocean floor.

'The plate model combines ocean floor growth with "axioms" that orogenesis implies crustal shortening, that trenches are underthrusts, and that earth radius is constant All three "axioms" are probably invalid.' ―Carey​

Warren Carey, a geologist, is also a colorful writer—and he's insolent: he puts the word 'axioms' in scare quotes just to mock the plate tectonic theory.

'The plate theory has fatal falsities. Africa and Antarctica are ringed by expanding rifts and each should have post-Palaeozoic subduction zones to swallow more than 3,000 km of crust These do not exist.' ―Carey

'Hilgenberg first assembled the continents on a basketball‐sized papier-mâché globe, the original of which I was privileged to handle when I visited him a decade ago. All the oceans had been eliminated and the sialic crust neatly enclosed the whole earth on a globe a little less than two-thirds of the diameter of the reference globe. He postulated that the mass of the earth as well as its volume waxed with time To explain this he clung to the moribund æther flux concept of gravitation, and claimed that energy of the æther flux was continually absorbed in æther sinks associated with matter, and was transformed into matter. Hilgenberg still adhered to this interpretation at the 1967 Newcastle symposmium.' ―Carey

'Creer estimated the earth's radius as 0.55R in the Early Precambrian, 0.94–0.96R at the beginning of the Palaeozoic, and 0 96–0.97R at the beginning of the Mesozom.' ―Carey

'The relations across the Arcto-Atlantic and Australia to Antarctica were conventional, and the Pacific was closed by bringing West Antarctica against the southern Andes, eastern Australia against Central America, and the northern margin of Australia against North America. Barnett remarked that "it is difficult to believe that chance alone can explain this fitting together of the continental margins". In a later paper Barnett (1969) recalled the resemblance of the southern continents to the petals of a flower, which indeed had struck many observers from as far back as Francis Bacon, who even at that date (1620) wondered whether the analogy implied that the earth had expanded. To quote Barnett: "A comparable pattern may readily be obtained by coating a rubber football bladder with a continuous crust of damp paper and then inflatmg it. Linear fractures are produced enclosing three or more petal-shaped forms 'aiming' towards the point of initial rupture. As the rupturing paper crust opens up like an expanding flower bud, each primary fissure extends and divides peripherally into secondary fissures to form smaller but still tapering patterns with occasional complete separation of large paper 'islands'." The bud and petal analogy, which had been developed fully by Hilgenberg (1933, p. 29), is useful because it incorporates the earth's hemihedral asymmetry, the antipodal relation of continents and oceans, the greater separation of the southern continents, and the northward migration of all continents with respect to the southward-moving parallels of latitude as the southern hemisphere (the opening calyx) expanded more rapidly than the northern (Carey, 1963).' ―Carey

'Creer (1965) prepared a set of perspex shell models of the continents on a 50-cm globe and remoulded them to the curvature of a 37-cm, and finally on to a 27-cm globe, and formed the impression that the fit of the continents on a smaller earth appeared to be too good to be due to coincidence, and required explaining.' ―Carey

'Walker and Walker (1954), two "economic geologists, with a joint span of experience covering over fifty years of surface and underground observations, finding themselves confronted by more and more geological evidence, which could not possibly be reconciled with [the contraction] hypothesis, were slowly and reluctantly forced to the opposite conclusion that the Earth was increasing in volume, and that the cause of this phenomenon must be some expanding mass at the center of the Earth. This idea once adopted, the phenomena of vulcanlsm and orogeny, — heretofore inadequately explained, — all fell into place like the parts of a jigsaw puzzle " [sic] They reached this conclusion it seems wholly independently of the earlier writers on the expanding earth,' ―Carey

'Subsequently Fairbridge (1965), in a further review, could find no evidence that could justify ocean trenches as compressional phenomena, nor did orogenic belts call for primary crustal compression. On the contrary he interpreted the deep-sea trenches as the contemporary prototype orthogeosynclines, as tension gashes in a crust extending continuously at an increasing rate.' ―Carey
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So dozens of geologists have been propounding expanding Earth theories for over a century, yet most of them seem to have radically different and sometimes bizarre explanations. Many assume a spontaneous decrease in the gravitational constant (G), and many others the nebulous 'ether:'

'Jordan's approach (1966) was inspired by Dirac's philosophical proposal thirty years earlier that the gravitational constant G varied inversely with the age of the universe, which Jordan defended as the prime cause of earth expansion.' ―Carey

'Sterner (1967) attributed a wide variety of first-order geological phenomena directly to the additive effect of the Dirac-Jordan secular decrease in G and a pulsation of G through the rotation of the galaxy, with a period of some 280 m.y.' ―Carey

'Hllgenberg proposed that the change m volume was due primarily to growth m mass, from the absorption of energy from the æther. [sic]' ―Carey​

But wouldn't the converse hold as well? Would not a decrease in density lower the gravitational constant? The first proposal—from the Paul Dirac sycophants—involves a hypothetical change in gravity then influencing matter. The second proposal involves involves real changes in volume—perhaps from fission—creating corresponding changes in gravity, as it would do by definition. All gravitational equations involve both mass and radius—which defines volume. The gravitational constant itself (G = 6.67408 × 10⁻¹¹ m³/kg‧s²) has units of of inverse density (1/ρ), or cubic meters per kilogram.

Yet the entire article mentions fission not once as a way to explain expansion, and mentions the term only once in an offhand remark: stringing it in a series with other matter‐increasing phenomenon:

'...when all matter had become radiation according to the transformation, E = mc². We know many modes whereby matter becomes energy — radioactivity nuclear fusion, nuclear fission, novæ, super-novæ, and yet others.' ―Carey​

But there is just as much evidence for nuclear fission in the Earth's core than there is for its expansion, which is sufficient: Hollenbach, D. F. "Deep-earth reactor: nuclear fission, helium, and the geomagnetic field." Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (2001)

'Nuclear fission chain reactions occur in nature. In 1972, scientists at the French Atomic Energy Establishment at Pierrelatte discovered the nearly intact remains of a natural nuclear fission reactor in a 0.5-m-thick seam of uranium ore located at Oklo, in the Republic of Gabon (7). Subsequently, other reactor zones were discovered in the region and appear to have functioned as self-sustained nuclear fission reactors about 1,800 million years ago (8).' ―Hollenbach

'At the time that the Oklo reactor was active, the proportion of 235U in natural uranium was sufficiently great for nuclear fission chain reactions to occur in a thick mass of natural uranium ore. In addition to functioning as a thermal neutron reactor moderated by ground water, the Oklo reactor also functioned as a fast-neutron breeder reactor, producing additional fissile material in the form of plutonium and other transuranic elements (9).' ―Hollenbach

'The Earth’s fluid core comprises 30.8% of the mass of the Earth and is thought to consist of iron and one or more light elements, such as sulfur. A small, apparently solid object, about the size of the moon and three times its mass, called the inner core, comprises 1.65% of the mass of the Earth and resides at the center.' ―Hollenbach

'It is not necessary to postulate a growing inner core, because, if the core of the Earth is like the alloy portion of certain highly reduced enstatite chondrites, major proportions of uranium and, presumably, thorium will exist within the Earth’s core; high-temperature precipitation and gravitationally driven accumulation will inevitably lead to a fissionable mass.' ―Hollenbach

[Results of Earth core fission simulation: The decrease in mass calculated and shown above would necessarily correspond to an increase in volume.]

'At the pressures that prevail in the Earth’s core, density is a function almost exclusively of atomic mass and atomic number. Uranium, thorium, and other actinides, being high-temperature precipitates and the densest substances, by the action of gravity, would tend to concentrate, possibly scavenged by other precipitates, ultimately forming a fissionable, critical mass (4–6). The same mechanism for concentrating the actinides (i.e., gravitational separation by density at high pressure) should cause the lighter fission products to separate from the heavier actinides, thus helping to maintain a nuclear-reactor-critical configuration.' ―Hollenbach

'As the fission products diffuse out of the reactor region to a region of lower density and the actinide fuel diffuses inward, the reactor restarts. As the reactor increases in power, the geomagnetic field reestablishes itself, either in the same direction or in the reverse direction.' ―Hollenbach

'Variations in the Earth’s magnetic field, however, are readily understandable strictly from an energy standpoint given the presence of naturally varying self-sustaining nuclear fission chain reactions occurring deep within the Earth (4–6).' ―Hollenbach

'Moreover, the calculations show that production of helium with ³He/⁴He ratios within the range observed from deep-mantle sources is an expected consequence of deep-Earth nuclear fission.' ―Hollenbach​

Wherever there is fission, there is an inescapable increase in volume; the lighter elements simply take up more space per unit mass—which is conserved. Accepting the idea that fission occurs in the Earth's core is sufficient in itself to explain how it's expanding, and I'd even go so far as to say that it's a far more logical explanation than those either invoking 'the ether' and those involving spontaneous changes in gravitational constant.