PSA - HealthNatura scamming users?

[Juri]

Hey everybody,

just thought i‘d share what a friend of mine recently brought to my attention, namely that HealthNatura falsely advertised their Vitamin K product.
@charlie worth banning them?

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/raypeat/comments/185lq24/health_nature_garbage_scam_company/

 

[Ras]

I wondered the same thing about the color, so I emailed Peter.

 

[Logan-]

I wondered the same thing about the color, so I emailed Peter.
View attachment 58751

What do you think of this whole issue, and his replies? His brief replies regarding the issue seem to be a perfect example of bad communication to say the least, for a company that earns money by selling high quality products to a more informed customer profile.

I was going to buy vitamin k2 from them in a month. When did you buy yours, may I ask?

I don’t like this. If there’s nothing wrong with the product, then why is its colour different this time, explain it to the customer, and if there’s nothing wrong, why is your first reply is you can send a replacement?

I looked at purebulk to see if they sell bulk vitamin k2 powder, but it seems they don’t.

 

[Logan-]

What do you think of this whole issue, and his replies? His brief replies regarding the issue seem to be a perfect example of bad communication to say the least, for a company that earns money by selling high quality products to a more informed customer profile.

I was going to buy vitamin k2 from them in a month. When did you buy yours, may I ask?

I don’t like this. If there’s nothing wrong with the product, then why is its colour different this time, explain it to the customer, and if there’s nothing wrong, why is your first reply is you can send a replacement?

I looked at purebulk to see if they sell bulk vitamin k2 powder, but it seems they don’t.

@healthnatura

 

[Dave Clark]

I think it is pretty common for nutrients extracted from natural sources to have color differences from batch to batch. That is why it is important for a company to have and provide a proper COA and make it available to the consumer on demand. It would prevent many of the e-mails and negative feedback to the company questioning the validity or purity of the product. Talk is cheap, people want to have confidence in what they are buying. I personally don't care if the color, texture, etc. is different, but I do want the product to deliver the main or active ingredient in the quantity and form stated on the label.

 

[Logan-]

I think it is pretty common for nutrients extracted from natural sources to have color differences from batch to batch. That is why it is important for a company to have and provide a proper COA and make it available to the consumer on demand. It would prevent many of the e-mails and negative feedback to the company questioning the validity or purity of the product. Talk is cheap, people want to have confidence in what they are buying. I personally don't care if the color, texture, etc. is different, but I do want the product to deliver the main or active ingredient in the quantity and form stated on the label.

All he had to do, is to provide a CoA of the different coloured product, and explain the mechanism behind the change in colour, instead him doing none of that, and writing “those products should have been removed from the inventory”, without explaining to the customer anything, and giving only short replies is an example of bad business management, and questionable practice, at the very least.

If there’s nothing wrong with the product, apart from a difference in colour, why remove them from the inventory, and why offer replacement to the customers who bought them, if and only if they email at you and bring it to your attention? If you are sure of your product, you can just say “there’s nothing wrong with it, the colour change occurred due to this process, which is not harmful or doesn’t reduce the potency of the product, and here’s a CoA of your batch.” That’s it. Alternatively, he could have explained why he decided to remove the product from the inventory, put a message on his website regarding the issue, and offer replacement to anyone who bought that product. Better to lose some money than to lose credibility, especially for a business model that’s founded on trust.

 

[Logan-]

.

 

[Kimster]

I'm curious or in the total dark......why are you taking K2 MK4 when it's K2 MK7 that works with D3? please enlighten me.

 

[Dave Clark]

All he had to do, is to provide a CoA of the different coloured product, and explain the mechanism behind the change in colour, instead him doing none of that, and writing “those products should have been removed from the inventory”, without explaining to the customer anything, and giving only short replies is an example of bad business management, and questionable practice, at the very least.

If there’s nothing wrong with the product, apart from a difference in colour, why remove them from the inventory, and why offer replacement to the customers who bought them, if and only if they email at you and bring it to your attention? If you are sure of your product, you can just say “there’s nothing wrong with it, the colour change occurred due to this process, which is not harmful or doesn’t reduce the potency of the product, and here’s a CoA of your batch.” That’s it. Alternatively, he could have explained why he decided to remove the product from the inventory, put a message on his website regarding the issue, and offer replacement to anyone who bought that product. Better to lose some money than to lose credibility.

I absolutely get what you are saying. It does sound suspicious.
I hate to hear things like that from companies that provide the type of products we people here on this forum use, there are so few good companies out there that provide us with quality products. I hope Health Natura can give an explanation of their comments that will remove any doubt of poor business and products.

 

[Ras]

What do you think of this whole issue, and his replies?

I was going to buy vitamin k2 from them in a month. When did you buy yours, may I ask?

As a customer, I prefer detailed responses with all available proof, for questions asked, in anticipation of consequential questions, and for concerns expressed and implied. I've never felt good about the color change, but I've had no substantial reason to doubt Peter. I've never heard of Thorne's K2 being clear, except in the following review, which is the only review that mentions the color of the product:

I bought my last order of True K2 from Health Natura in December of 2021.

 

[healthnatura]

Since 1996, we have strived to better the lives of our customers with a singular vision to provide effective wellness products through the pursuits of excellence, purity, and honesty. We constantly evolve and apply technologies to offer the best products possible. Since we've been in business, we've issued one recall for a product that failed to meet the potency listed on the label. We have had no safety or purity recalls. At this time, we're unable to verify if this complaint is related to this recall.

Regarding the complaint in this post, at this time, we do not know if this person is a customer. The individual claims that they received a bottle of True K2 Mk4 (1mg per drop) manufactured in 2020. The email we received from them on November 27th, 2023, contained no further information or any information that matches our sales records. Upon requesting additional details to help us locate their order, they have yet to respond with that information. We cannot resolve their concerns without further details, allowing us to identify the customer, trace the order, and determine the lot number.

To address the concerns now being asked about purity and potency. A certificate of analysis for any of our products is available upon request. Like most companies, we do not maintain a public database for each production run.

In July 2020, we released a batch of True K2 Mmk4 1mg per drop that we had a third-party produce for us. After its release, we discovered that a small number of the bottles in this batch contained 30% less than the advertised 1mg per drop of active Mk4, which led to a lighter color. Some of the bottles had plastic droppers instead of glass. This lot was the only time we have sold a product that didn't meet the advertised specifications. While additional testing revealed no other safety concerns, we issued a recall. We paused sales and ordered our fulfillment center to pull the lot from their shelves. We then contacted all customers we believed may have received the product and offered them a refund or free replacement. We are not infallible, but when there is a problem, we do our best to make it right.

If you believe you have one of these bottles of True K2 Mk4, please contact us at [email protected]. Please include your full name, mailing address, billing address, and email used to place the order. This information will allow us to identify your account and locate your order. Please be aware that this lot of True K2 Mk4 is over three years old, has expired, and should not be consumed.

To resolve ongoing concerns about the quality of our product, I have posted a current COA on the True K2 Mk4 product page. You can also learn more about the starting materials our raw material manufacturers use to produce the concentrates. We test every product batch before and after manufacturing to ensure quality and safety. Testing methods are listed on each COA.

If you have any further questions, please contact us at [email protected].

Sincerely,
Peter Kassner, NMD
Founder, Co-Owner

 

[Juri]

Since 1996, we have strived to better the lives of our customers with a singular vision to provide effective wellness products through the pursuits of excellence, purity, and honesty. We constantly evolve and apply technologies to offer the best products possible. Since we've been in business, we've issued one recall for a product that failed to meet the potency listed on the label. We have had no safety or purity recalls. At this time, we're unable to verify if this complaint is related to this recall.

Regarding the complaint in this post, at this time, we do not know if this person is a customer. The individual claims that they received a bottle of True K2 Mk4 (1mg per drop) manufactured in 2020. The email we received from them on November 27th, 2023, contained no further information or any information that matches our sales records. Upon requesting additional details to help us locate their order, they have yet to respond with that information. We cannot resolve their concerns without further details, allowing us to identify the customer, trace the order, and determine the lot number.

To address the concerns now being asked about purity and potency. A certificate of analysis for any of our products is available upon request. Like most companies, we do not maintain a public database for each production run.

In July 2020, we released a batch of True K2 Mmk4 1mg per drop that we had a third-party produce for us. After its release, we discovered that a small number of the bottles in this batch contained 30% less than the advertised 1mg per drop of active Mk4, which led to a lighter color. Some of the bottles had plastic droppers instead of glass. This lot was the only time we have sold a product that didn't meet the advertised specifications. While additional testing revealed no other safety concerns, we issued a recall. We paused sales and ordered our fulfillment center to pull the lot from their shelves. We then contacted all customers we believed may have received the product and offered them a refund or free replacement. We are not infallible, but when there is a problem, we do our best to make it right.

If you believe you have one of these bottles of True K2 Mk4, please contact us at [email protected]. Please include your full name, mailing address, billing address, and email used to place the order. This information will allow us to identify your account and locate your order. Please be aware that this lot of True K2 Mk4 is over three years old, has expired, and should not be consumed.

To resolve ongoing concerns about the quality of our product, I have posted a current COA on the True K2 Mk4 product page. You can also learn more about the starting materials our raw material manufacturers use to produce the concentrates. We test every product batch before and after manufacturing to ensure quality and safety. Testing methods are listed on each COA.

If you have any further questions, please contact us at [email protected].

Sincerely,
Peter Kassner, NMD
Founder, Co-Owner

Hi Mr. Kassner,

I appreciate this kind of transparency a lot and I'm sure my friend will to. I wasn't aware you offer certificates upon request, props.

 

[healthnatura]

Hi Mr. Kassner,

I appreciate this kind of transparency a lot and I'm sure my friend will to. I wasn't aware you offer certificates upon request, props.

We would happily supply your friend with a replacement or store credit, just like we have done for all of our other customers. What we require is the following.
1. Sufficient information to identify their account and find their order.
2. A pick of the bottle and lot number.

While we understand that our customers have the right to voice their concerns freely, when a customer isn't happy, we always appreciate the opportunity to make things right before they go public like this.

 

[healthnatura]

You can also see a picture of what the oil should look like on the product page.
This picture has been on the product page for years.

True K2 Mk4 1 mg per drop 1 ounce

healthnatura.com

 

[Ras]

I appreciate the respect and professional behavior Peter has shown to me, in his handling of this matter. I'll continue to get my K2 from HealthNatura.

 

[Logan-]

You can also see a picture of what the oil should look like on the product page.
This picture has been on the product page for years.

True K2 Mk4 1 mg per drop 1 ounce

healthnatura.com

There’s no picture for your product, titled: “True K2 Spectrum - Mk4/Mk7 10mg/200mcg 1 ounce”
Should this supplement also have a yellow colour to it, or transparent?

 

[Logan-]

There’s no picture for your product, titled: “True K2 Spectrum - Mk4/Mk7 10mg/200mcg 1 ounce”
Should this supplement also have a yellow colour to it, or transparent?

True K2 Spectrum - Mk4/Mk7 10mg/200mcg 1 ounce

healthnatura.com