S. Boulardii As A Way To "clean" Digestive Tract

[managing]

On Autism360 there is a lot of discussion of how to clear virulent microorganisms from the intestines. One strategy focuses on S. boulardii, a non-colonizing yeast. It is widely available in developing countries to treat travelers diarrhea. It is particularly effective at this and I have some experience with it.

A360 describes using it for 60 days in order to essentially wipe out everything and start over. I am on day 17 of this. It has gone well and predictably. Die-off symptoms in abundance in the first ~ 10 days, steadily becoming minimal, but not entirely gone.

Their recommendation is to follow the 60 day boulardii regimen with 10-20 days of L. rhamnosus strain gg. GG seems to be simply the bacterial equivalent of boulardii. IOW, something that completely dominates and doesn't allow growth of any other microorganisms. I suppose it converts you to bacterial processes completely before allowing general recolonization.

So, my first question is, what are your thoughts on this overall.

Second, would you do the gg?

When it comes to recolonization, any probiotics to promote healthy colonization?

Any supplements to support intestinal immune system? I currently take lactoferrin and colostrum between meals and this seems to help tremendously with my original symptoms which were moodiness and hot flashes between meals. I'm a man, which doesn't mean it isn't hormonal, but hormone panels suggested not hormonal per se. I eventually found that the lactoferrin and colostrum pretty much eliminated the symptoms.

This all seemed to get worse when I went from low carb to RP style fruit, sugar, etc. It definitely seems the sugar was feeding something virulent in the intestines. BTW, i feel great on the boulardii routine.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I took booulardii for months. I got dependent on it. Then started carrot salad which is more mild and does the job.

 

[managing]

I took booulardii for months. I got dependent on it. Then started carrot salad which is more mild and does the job.

Milder in what ways?

Dependent in what ways?

FWIW, I'm allergic to raw carrots. But I take carrots to be treating symptoms. And boulardii to be a potential solution/therapy in that it can eradicate some microbes. The key is keepign them away.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I wasn't comfortable with messy bowel movements without the boulardii. I weaned myself off. I also tried soil based microbes and lactobacilli etc. ended up taking nothing and doing well with just daily carrot or occasional charcoal.

 

[EIRE24]

I wasn't comfortable with messy bowel movements without the boulardii. I weaned myself off. I also tried soil based microbes and lactobacilli etc. ended up taking nothing and doing well with just daily carrot or occasional charcoal.

Did you find the boulardii helped skin if you had any problems with that?

 

[ecstatichamster]

Did you find the boulardii helped skin if you had any problems with that?

initially it did. Then everything reversed and it was as before.

 

[whodathunkit]

Another hazard of s.boulardii is constipation. It's like someone puts a cork in me bum if I take it by itself, deliberately dosing it. Doses don't have to be terribly high, either.

A tiny bit as part of some other preparation is okay (it's added to some probiotic formulas, for instance), but on it's own...it's like a stopper.

 

[x-ray peat]

I would be a little concerned about repopulating the gut with a single strain of bacteria. A healthy gut has about 1000 different strains of bacteria so I dont think 1 strain or even the ten strains is the way to go. I would either let the gut repopulate naturally with raw fruits and vegetables and just by living and breathing. Or choose a more radical choice like a fecal transplant. There are lots of DIY instructions on the internet; but I think the best advice is to find someone in the home or nearby who is healthy and ask them for some poop. A healthy gut biome is very dependent on local circumstances. Also do some serious research on this before attempting. I have heard that fat people can become thin by using a thin persons poop but I imagine the reverse could happen and you may end up like Kirstie Alley.

 

[managing]

I would be a little concerned about repopulating the gut with a single strain of bacteria. A healthy gut has about 1000 different strains of bacteria so I dont think 1 strain or even the ten strains is the way to go. I would either let the gut repopulate naturally with raw fruits and vegetables and just by living and breathing. Or choose a more radical choice like a fecal transplant. There are lots of DIY instructions on the internet; but I think the best advice is to find someone in the home or nearby who is healthy and ask them for some poop. A healthy gut biome is very dependent on local circumstances. Also do some serious research on this before attempting. I have heard that fat people can become thin by using a thin persons poop but I imagine the reverse could happen and you may end up like Kirstie Alley.

I think, and they don't say, that the role of GG is to ease you over to bacteria in general after a round of boulardii. As somebody noted, they had diarrhea when they stopped which could come from a number of things.

• the lack of microbes in general, as the boulardii dies off
• colonization by opportunistic and undesirable microbes in the vacuum left by boulardii
• the boulardii die-off itself

But you are right that there are hundreds or thousands in a healthy gut. Based on what I've read, the GG isn't as dominant as the boulardii. Boulardii seems to act by eliminating all the competition. GG rather by making the intestinal wall hydrophobic so that certain microbes cannot attach themselves to it and therefore colonize. Exactly how/which etc microbes depend on a hydrophilic cell wall for colonization is not clear. But GG, like boulardii, is very effective against travelers diarrhea.

BTW, I've had no issues at all with constipation. In fact, I got off of cascara after several days of boulardii. Also, boulardii seems to have eliminated ileocecal valve issues. That is a big thing I'll be watching when I switch to GG. And I'll only do GG for . . . maybe a week?

 

[EIRE24]

I think, and they don't say, that the role of GG is to ease you over to bacteria in general after a round of boulardii. As somebody noted, they had diarrhea when they stopped which could come from a number of things.

• the lack of microbes in general, as the boulardii dies off
• colonization by opportunistic and undesirable microbes in the vacuum left by boulardii
• the boulardii die-off itself

But you are right that there are hundreds or thousands in a healthy gut. Based on what I've read, the GG isn't as dominant as the boulardii. Boulardii seems to act by eliminating all the competition. GG rather by making the intestinal wall hydrophobic so that certain microbes cannot attach themselves to it and therefore colonize. Exactly how/which etc microbes depend on a hydrophilic cell wall for colonization is not clear. But GG, like boulardii, is very effective against travelers diarrhea.

BTW, I've had no issues at all with constipation. In fact, I got off of cascara after several days of boulardii. Also, boulardii seems to have eliminated ileocecal valve issues. That is a big thing I'll be watching when I switch to GG. And I'll only do GG for . . . maybe a week?

Boulardii seems to have done the trick for you

 

[managing]

Boulardii seems to have done the trick for you

So far. But I am still finding my way blindly. I've also experienced some general malaise tat I don't know if it is related or not. Just not motivated to do things like ride my bike which I usually do at every opportunity. A little breathlessness. Salt helps. A few very minor muscle spasms.

I also have had a few episodes of minor endotoxin symptoms. Not nearly as bad as before boulardii. I can't decide whether boulardii is still encountering virulent microbes in the gut and killing them. Or if, since it doesn't colonize, I am just experiencing boulardii die off. It only happens several hours after having eaten, so I am leaning toward boulardii dying off due to lack of nutrition.

The main thing I am still debating is how long to stay on boulardii and how to transition off. Leaning toward a week or so of GG (Culturelle) but I have little experience with it. I have used a Mexican product called Sinuberase which functions similarly, but it Bacillus clausii. It was very effective at ending Monteczuma's revenge. But did then trend toward constipation.

Anybody have experience with Culturelle (GG)? It sounds like one vote so far for not going cold turkey from boulardii.

 

[japanesedude]

Saccharomyces boulardii produces in rat small intestine a novel protein phosphatase that inhibits Escherichia coli endotoxin by dephosphorylation. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[DaveFoster]

Another hazard of s.boulardii is constipation. It's like someone puts a cork in me bum if I take it by itself, deliberately dosing it. Doses don't have to be terribly high, either.

A tiny bit as part of some other preparation is okay (it's added to some probiotic formulas, for instance), but on it's own...it's like a stopper.

This could be just revealed hypothyroidism. If removing an irritant causes constipation, then that irritant may have been causing peristalsis mediated through serotonin. Similarly, some people get constipation when taking activated charcoal. Quelling gut inflammation causes constipation if the thyroid isn’t adequately stimulating the intestine throughout the process.

 

[moa]

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[moa]

Also, boulardii seems to have eliminated ileocecal valve issues. That is a big thing I'll be watching when I switch to GG.

I think it might be related to Boulardii reducing gas production. I noticed most gas forms in the caecum, where new fiber arrives, those who ferment fast and produce the gas there. if the colon is swollen or has low mobility, it will build and push pressure on the ileocecal valve. Boulardii may have reduced gas in that place, or maybe slowed down gas production so that it is produced later in the transverse colon for example. then if the valve is not under pressure, les bacteria will go up the ileon and this may have reduced the inflammation of the valve. Maybe that's the reason.