Selenium Is Anti-estrogenic (aromatase Inhibitor)

[haidut]

Another confirmation that most of the substances favored by Peat have anti-estrogenic action even if he did not directly state it.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22128327

 

[Vinero]

Interesting, because I was thinking about mushrooms and how I read somewhere that it was an aromatase inhibitor. Well, mushrooms are high in selenium so that may explain why.

 

[haidut]

Interesting, because I was thinking about mushrooms and how I read somewhere that it was an aromatase inhibitor. Well, mushrooms are high in selenium so that may explain why.

Yep, if you type "white button mushroom aromatase" in Google you will see some studies on that. I agree that the selenium is probably the mechanism of action.

 

[aquaman]

Another confirmation that most of the substances favored by Peat have anti-estrogenic action even if he did not directly state it.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22128327

Do you take selenium supplement?

 

[haidut]

Another confirmation that most of the substances favored by Peat have anti-estrogenic action even if he did not directly state it.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22128327

Do you take selenium supplement?

I used to, in the form of sodium selenite. However, I found that eating shrimp gives me more selenium in more enjoyable form so I stopped. I still keep the selenium around and take maybe once a week when I have not have much seafood that week.

 

[himsahimsa]

The paper does not say that selenium itself leads to the suppression of aromatase or even that at a selenium based metabolite (like a glutatione peroxidase) does. It says the specific chemical methylseleninic acid (MSA) inhibits aromatase activators "glucocorticoid-stimulated promoter, PI.4, and the cAMP-stimulated promoter, PII". Selenium is required for all kinds of good things but I think this paper is not related to selenium per se.

 

[haidut]

The paper does not say that selenium itself leads to the suppression of aromatase or even that at a selenium based metabolite (like a glutatione peroxidase) does. It says the specific chemical methylseleninic acid (MSA) inhibits aromatase activators "glucocorticoid-stimulated promoter, PI.4, and the cAMP-stimulated promoter, PII". Selenium is required for all kinds of good things but I think this paper is not related to selenium per se.

I guess I should have worded it differently, but the overall message is still the same. Here is something from the abstract:

"...In the present study, we show that methylseleninic acid (MSA), a second-generation selenium compound, can effectively suppress aromatase activation by dexamethasone, a synthetic glucocorticoid, and forskolin, a specific activator of adenylate cyclase. Unlike the action of aromatase inhibitors, MSA suppression of aromatase activation is not mediated via direct inhibition of aromatase enzymatic activity. Rather, it is attributable to a marked downregulation of promoters PI.4- and PII-specific aromatase mRNA expression, and thereby a reduction of aromatase protein."

Yes, it does not directly inhibit aromatase, but the activation of aromatase by corticoids and forskolin (a known activator of cAMP). It is analogous to saying aspirin is aromatase inhibitor even though it does not inhibit aromatase by rather its activation by prostaglandins.

 

[himsahimsa]

But the implication is not that taking a selenium supplement or eating a food source of selenium will have this effect or lead to it. They are experimenting with the specific chemical, methylseleninic acid. It happens to have selenium as part of its structure but it might not have. Something about the particular shape and charge distribution in methylseleninic acid gums up the works in the chain of events that turns on aromatase.

I see 'selenium leads to aromatase inhibition' as a theme of this thread and I don't think the paper points that way. Maybe I'm misreading the implication of the thread.

 

[haidut]

But the implication is not that taking a selenium supplement or eating a food source of selenium will have this effect or lead to it. They are experimenting with the specific chemical, methylseleninic acid. It happens to have selenium as part of its structure but it might not have. Something about the particular shape and charge distribution in methylseleninic acid gums up the works in the chain of events that turns on aromatase.

I see 'selenium leads to aromatase inhibition' as a theme of this thread and I don't think the paper points that way. Maybe I'm misreading the implication of the thread.

Well, MSA is certainly not the same as selenium but MSA was developed specifically to enhance the anti-tumor effects of selenium observed in other studies. Here are some other studies with it and the authors are wording the titles of their studies to make it sound as if selenium has anti-estrogen action even though they developed a specific compound MSA which has augmented anti-estrogenic action. The first study concludes that "organic selenium" has anti-tumor activity by down-regulating estrogen "receptor" alpha. So, I don't think it is too far-fetched to say that selenium is anti-estrogenic.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18855134
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16155795
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16093440
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15833885

 

[himsahimsa]

Right. I'm not disagreeing. I just think that particular paper is making specific claims for a specific chemical, based on what I can see in the abstract.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16093440 also specifically sites MSA and not just any random selenium source.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15833885 uses MSA but then just says selenium, so would they say Se from sodium selenite is as effective? I think they are being ambiguous.

I take 200mcg as selenomethionine every day without fail mainly because I want to maintain high glutathion status. Glutathion peroxidases probably account for a substantial amount of the deactivation/disposal of estrogen in the liver. All of the selenium containing enzymes are important.

For instance:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11932302

 

[Peata]

I have a bottle around and take a pill about 1x week. I will start taking it daily, at least through luteal phase. Any extra help during that time is good.

 

[kiran]

haidut, do you have any thoughts on selenium methylselenocysteine ?

What do you think of this study?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17056079

 

[dukez07]

Goji berries are high in selenium and also touted as being anti-estrogenic.

Liver is high in selenium, as are oysters.

Selenium is pro-thyroid, along with vitamin A (not too much), so I've started eating a small amount of liver each day (30g) - instead of eating 200g once per week. Got this idea from Mittir. Works really well.

Selenuim supplements smell kind of weird.

 

[haidut]

Right. I'm not disagreeing. I just think that particular paper is making specific claims for a specific chemical, based on what I can see in the abstract.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16093440 also specifically sites MSA and not just any random selenium source.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15833885 uses MSA but then just says selenium, so would they say Se from sodium selenite is as effective? I think they are being ambiguous.

I take 200mcg as selenomethionine every day without fail mainly because I want to maintain high glutathion status. Glutathion peroxidases probably account for a substantial amount of the deactivation/disposal of estrogen in the liver. All of the selenium containing enzymes are important.

For instance:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11932302

I concur. Actually you found the study about sodium selenite being compared to MSA. I remember that I specifically chose sodium selenite because it was being compared to MSA and despite my best efforts I could not find the study it was based on. Thanks for finding it! Btw, sodium selenite has other things going on for it. If you search PubMed for it you will see a number of studies saying it increases the conversion of T4 into T3 by 2-3 fold.
I bought some from VitaminShoppe and take 200mcg maybe 2-3 times a week. I find that taking it every day makes me feel agitated, which could be due to some unknown excipients but the label has it has nothing other than gelatin. It could also be increased conversion of T3 from T4, which also makes me agitated when I was taking pure T3 several months ago.
Anyways, selenium is very important but for me is tough to get the right dosage from supplements. Maybe I should up my shrimp intake, if I can find decently priced supply.

 

[aguilaroja]

Anyways, selenium is very important but for me is tough to get the right dosage from supplements. Maybe I should up my shrimp intake, if I can find decently priced supply.

It's un-Peaty, but a few times I ate Brazil nuts for selenium. I had slight fatigue that seemed to respond to small supplementary selenium, but the relief was short term. I don't normally like the Brazil nuts, but at these seeming low selenium times, I really enjoyed the taste.

Of course, I was wary of excess PUFA. I ate a small quantity and did precautionary things-blanching, soaking in coconut oil & discarding the soak solution, salting & light toasting in more coconut oil. It just worked better for me than shellfish, organ meat, supplements or seafood. Once repleted, the selenium repleted feeling seems to last a very long time. "YMMV"

http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Seleni ... fessional/
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/nut ... cts/3091/2

[hoisting a target onto my back, for justifiable concerns about increased PUFA intake]

 

[MyUsernameHere]

I like the taste of brazil nuts but they either don't do much for me or even make me feel worse. I noticed the same thing with selenium supplements even though, especially concerning the selenium depletion where I live, supplementing it seemed like a good idea on paper. But if the body objects, I listen...

 

[Blossom]

Anyways, selenium is very important but for me is tough to get the right dosage from supplements. Maybe I should up my shrimp intake, if I can find decently priced supply.

It's un-Peaty, but a few times I ate Brazil nuts for selenium. I had slight fatigue that seemed to respond to small supplementary selenium, but the relief was short term. I don't normally like the Brazil nuts, but at these seeming low selenium times, I really enjoyed the taste.

Of course, I was wary of excess PUFA. I ate a small quantity and did precautionary things-blanching, soaking in coconut oil & discarding the soak solution, salting & light toasting in more coconut oil. It just worked better for me than shellfish, organ meat, supplements or seafood. Once repleted, the selenium repleted feeling seems to last a very long time. "YMMV"

http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Seleni ... fessional/
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/nut ... cts/3091/2

[hoisting a target onto my back, for justifiable concerns about increased PUFA intake]

That actually seems very resourceful. I for one am glad you shared that information. I may not personally choose to do the same because my digestive system isn't that resilient but it's alway valuable to hear others experiences. We all probably do things slightly different anyway depending on our context.

 

[haidut]

haidut, do you have any thoughts on selenium methylselenocysteine ?

What do you think of this study?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17056079

I saw a study long time ago comparing various forms of selenium and only sodium selenite had big effects on conversion of T4 into T3. But, I would go with whatever feels like working and I know is pure. So, if you have found a good source of methylselenocysteine I would take that, since I did in the past and felt a surge in energy, which means it was certainly not hurting.

 

[DaveFoster]

As previously mentioned, I can't find an applicable dosage, including in this study. What would be a good dosage (ideally backed by studies)? 200 mg seems to be common.

Additionally, there seems to be some issues with increased prostate cancer risk with selenium along with Vitamin E.

 

[Daimyo]

I was taking around 400 mcg of selenium a day when I lived in Vietnam. I remember that all the dogs wanted to lick me at that time.