Should I drop t4 because of liver conversion issues? High rt3, is this a liver issue? What do I do?

[dervmai]

I have liver issues and based on my baseline lab work, my t4 wasn't converting to t3. Causing a buildup of t4 and rt3 and low levels of t3. I think after my many months of supplementing thyroid, my liver health has not improved. I have damaged my liver a lot due to chronic smoking, marijuana abuse, and 19 years of unhealthy eating.

I went on the STTM groups.io forum and I was recommended to stop t4 and just do t3. The issue with this was that I was already on t3 only. It didn't improve my temps and pulse much, but I was only on 25mcg.

I added t4 and worked up to a grain of thyroid per day, with a 1:4 ratio. Here are some, what I think are important observations I have made.... My waking temps and pulse are still very low... despite me having built up t4 into my system... my pulse is also low.... basically baseline temps and pulse before I started thyroid.....

However my pulse dramatically rises to like 85-90 later in the day after taking thyroid with a meal... my temps go up but not a whole lot (could this be a liver issue or is it something else?). My anxiety and stress go up.... Is this pooling? I think my conversion issues are the cause of this and the state of my liver, which I think is incapable of storing glycogen properly. Despite me being on a high sugar diet. I drink 2-3 cups of milk with 2 tbs of honey per cup... like a lot of fruits, 2-3 oranges, and a cup of grapes and 2-3 peaches is roughly how much fruits I get in a day.... Cycle that with other fruits but the amount stays the same.

I think my rt3 levels have shot back up, I'm getting high rt3 symptoms again. I would need to confirm this via bloodwork, which I'll try to order this week, since I have been on t4/t3 for about a month now, I think I can retest.

What do you all recommend??? Should I quit t4 completely? Or maybe my ratio of t4-t3 is all the way off at 1:4. Should I work it down to 1:2 or even 1:1 instead of quitting??? How do I do so? Do I lower my t4? Or do I increase my t3 dosage? Keep in mind I am taking 1/2 a cynoplus a day and my temps are still very low.

EDIT- I think I have hyperadrenalism as well

 

[LucH]

What do you all recommend??? Should I quit t4 completely? Or maybe my ratio of t4-t3 is all the way off at 1:4. Should I work it down to 1:2 or even 1:1 instead of quitting??? How do I do so? Do I lower my t4? Or do I increase my t3 dosage? Keep in mind I am taking 1/2 a cynoplus a day and my temps are still very low.

Hi
Case of rT3 too high / poor conversion of T3 to T4?

• rT3 is a bypass when metabolism does not follow, due to a recurring problem (iodine level too low, iron insufficiency, lack of cofactors following a deficient diet (magnesium, selenium, etc.), rampant inflammation, adrenal dysfunction, etc.

• The brain then realizes the insufficiencies and slows down the metabolism to avoid making the situation worse. It's an emergency brake. A compensatory mechanism. The body needs to get rid of excess circulating T4 and neutralize circulating T3 which, remember, is the active hormone.

• Not too serious if it is temporary (stress, exhaustion) but if it persists, rT3 will disrupt communications by binding to the receptors on the T3 destination sites. A vicious circle then sets in...

• Overview of tactics to change the situation and get out of it:
- Labs: iron – B12 – MMA – TSH – free T3 – free T4 – calcitonin – rT3.
- Genetic test to detect methylation deficiency (MTHFR)
- Level of hormonal and neurotransmitter markers, gastrointestinal health, inflammation markers, magnesium, vitamin D, selenium, iodine, B vitamins and others.

• There is not just one approach; there is no standard protocol (“one size fits all” approach will never be helpful here).
• We will follow a protocol to evacuate excess T4. We aim for an optimal ratio. T3 ratio = free T3: rT3 = 20 minimum. Max 5% rT3. The lower this number, the better. www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/rt3-ratio

If your ratio is below 20, you will then know why your usual treatment worked for others but not for you.
• Pamper your liver and bile for optimal support. The liver is an extraordinary organ, capable of many feats, if you take care of it. Moreover, he is called chief foreman.

Source :
The thyroid madness II - Chapter 11. Moving Forward With Reverse T3.
The Causes and Health Implications.
By Paige Adams, FNP, B-C

 

[ecstatichamster]

T3 only for a bit. Try it. It works better for some.

 

[dervmai]

T3 only for a bit. Try it. It works better for some.

I tried 25 mcg for 3 months, my pulses and temps barely moved up. Hence I added t4.... what do you make of this? I was only on 25mcg though just for the record.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I tried 25 mcg for 3 months, my pulses and temps barely moved up. Hence I added t4.... what do you make of this? I was only on 25mcg though just for the record.

You need a protocol. Increase t3 gradually. Take small amounts throughout the day. I was taking 180 mcg ultimately. It raised my temps nicely. I gradually increased. Followed Denis Wilson protocol. Look it up.

 

[dervmai]

T3 only for a bit. Try it. It works better for some.

I think my liver isn't converting the t4 I added into t3.... and that most of it is converting into rt3. Hence maybe why I am becoming more anxious and having trouble sleeping again. Either that or my adrenals are overactive, which could be likely due to high DHEA-S.

You need a protocol. Increase t3 gradually. Take small amounts throughout the day. I was taking 180 mcg ultimately. It raised my temps nicely. I gradually increased. Followed Denis Wilson protocol. Look it up.

How do you take that much t3 a day? I thought Ray says taking more than 10 mcg at once is bad.

 

[FitnessMike]

Im starting to incorporating t4 now because i was running low on porcine glandular and started feeling very symptomatic, even tho my ft3 is on the higher end for the entire 24h

 

[ecstatichamster]

I think my liver isn't converting the t4 I added into t3.... and that most of it is converting into rt3. Hence maybe why I am becoming more anxious and having trouble sleeping again. Either that or my adrenals are overactive, which could be likely due to high DHEA-S.

How do you take that much t3 a day? I thought Ray says taking more than 10 mcg at once is bad.

I didn’t say I take it at once. I said ”take small amounts throughout the day.”

 

[dervmai]

I didn’t say I take it at once. I said ”take small amounts throughout the day.”

Yes but still you would need to take it like every 30-45 minutes to stay under 10 mcg a dose. Super unrealistic. So unless you take a lot more at one time, I'm not understanding how your dosing it.

 

[dervmai]

Im starting to incorporating t4 now because i was running low on porcine glandular and started feeling very symptomatic, even tho my ft3 is on the higher end for the entire 24h

Were you getting an adrenaline reaction? Do you think the t4 was converting to rt3?

 

[ecstatichamster]

Yes but still you would need to take it like every 30-45 minutes to stay under 10 mcg a dose. Super unrealistic. So unless you take a lot more at one time, I'm not understanding how your dosing it.

you have it after meals in larger amounts. And in between in nibbles. i did it for months so it is not super unrealistic.

 

[FitnessMike]

Were you getting an adrenaline reaction? Do you think the t4 was converting to rt3?

i wasn't able to tolerate anything for a long time, then I could slowly build up porcine NDT as it seemed to not raise my t4/ft4 levels and my t4/ft4 levels were going down for a while to the point that I started feeling very symptomatic. If you tested high rt3, you need to minimize stress (high carbs, dropping lifting weights if you do etc) and go on t3 only or as it worked for me, porcine glandular with meal, its better than synthetic as it food in itself, and takes time to digest and release hormones.

Essentially, you need to work out hot to tolerate thyroid meds if you need them ofc, without optimal hormones no diet/supplements will do shi t - in my experience.