Silicade question

[bagotage]

I'm making Dennis Crouse's Silicade and wanted to post a long, complicated question here that I hope folks might be able to shed some light on—

There's some discussion of this issue here, but briefly, at one point in the recipe, Dennis says to run the whole batch of Silicade through a Brita filter to remove aluminum and other "impurities" in the "ingredients" (see his FAQ). However, after doing some research, I noticed that some people have reported that Brita filters actually add aluminum:


View: https://reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/n6i57v/brita_filters_increasing_aluminum

Brita water filter heavy metals reduction laboratory results - WaterFilterLabs.com

waterfilterlabs.com

Questionable sources, maybe, but not enough for me to dismiss the possibility outright. Obviously Britas are pretty crap, and being manufactured by a large corporation, I certainly wouldn't put it past them.

So, I purchased a Zerowater filter instead, and now I'm trying to figure out if it is removing all the orthosilicic acid (OSA), etc., that I'm specifically trying to add to the water. Despite what Dennis has said, I don't think it does—but I'm not sure, because I don't know enough about organic chemistry, and how water filtering technologies work. Here's where I'm at:

As far as I can understand, Zerowater uses "ion exchange" technology to remove aluminum and other mineral impurities. Many or most silica/silicon formulations are negatively charged (e.g., orthosilicate), but I believe OSA is neutral (see "formal charge" value here), and thus would not be affected by ion exchange filtering. That doesn't rule out the possibility that Zerowater might be able to filter OSA by some other means, but it seems less likely. Zerowater filters consist of five stages: activated carbon, ion exchange, and three that remove bacteria, as far as I can tell.

Zerowater also provides a "total dissolved solids" (TDS) meter with their filters—the instant-zero reading it provides is one of their markers of quality. However, there are two main methods of TDS measurement—according to Wikipedia, at least:

The two principal methods of measuring total dissolved solids are gravimetric analysis and conductivity. Gravimetric methods are the most accurate and involve evaporating the liquid solvent and measuring the mass of residues left. This method is generally the best, although it is time-consuming. If inorganic salts comprise the great majority of TDS, conductivity-based methods are appropriate.

Electrical, or specific, conductivity of water is directly related to the concentration of dissolved ionized solids in the water. Ions from the dissolved solids in water create the ability for that water to conduct an electric current, which can be measured using a conventional conductivity meter or TDS meter. When correlated with laboratory TDS measurements, conductivity provides an approximate value for the TDS concentration, usually to within ten-percent accuracy.

The Zerowater TDS meter reads instantly, suggesting it's making an electric/conductive measurement, not gravimetric. Therefore, again, a zero reading would not indicate an absence of OSA, which has a neutral charge.

So, I'm not sure what to think. I don't want to use a Brita filter. I can just keep drinking the water as I've been making it, and seeing if I notice any effects, but I'd hate to think I'm just drinking regular water, without OSA. Or perhaps I should stop doing the filtering altogether, as @Dave Clark suggests here, since my (Pür-filtered) tap water is fairly free of aluminum, and the ingredients I'm using in the Silicade are pretty high-purity:

Silica, present in most supplements/food, activates the endotoxin receptor (TLR4)

Thanks, I have diatomaceous earth but have not used it internally. My concern that even the dissolved product may not be fully dissolved. I will look into it again. Here is a link to Rays thoughts on powder spirulina powder charcoal diatomaceous earth. He focuses on contamination. View...

raypeatforum.com

After all, what are these "impurities" alluded to in the Silicade FAQ? More information would be helpful, if anyone has thoughts!

 

[Mossy]

I'm making Dennis Crouse's Silicade and wanted to post a long, complicated question here that I hope folks might be able to shed some light on—

There's some discussion of this issue here, but briefly, at one point in the recipe, Dennis says to run the whole batch of Silicade through a Brita filter to remove aluminum and other "impurities" in the "ingredients" (see his FAQ). However, after doing some research, I noticed that some people have reported that Brita filters actually add aluminum:


View: https://reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/n6i57v/brita_filters_increasing_aluminum

Brita water filter heavy metals reduction laboratory results - WaterFilterLabs.com

waterfilterlabs.com

Questionable sources, maybe, but not enough for me to dismiss the possibility outright. Obviously Britas are pretty crap, and being manufactured by a large corporation, I certainly wouldn't put it past them.

So, I purchased a Zerowater filter instead, and now I'm trying to figure out if it is removing all the orthosilicic acid (OSA), etc., that I'm specifically trying to add to the water. Despite what Dennis has said, I don't think it does—but I'm not sure, because I don't know enough about organic chemistry, and how water filtering technologies work. Here's where I'm at:

As far as I can understand, Zerowater uses "ion exchange" technology to remove aluminum and other mineral impurities. Many or most silica/silicon formulations are negatively charged (e.g., orthosilicate), but I believe OSA is neutral (see "formal charge" value here), and thus would not be affected by ion exchange filtering. That doesn't rule out the possibility that Zerowater might be able to filter OSA by some other means, but it seems less likely. Zerowater filters consist of five stages: activated carbon, ion exchange, and three that remove bacteria, as far as I can tell.

Zerowater also provides a "total dissolved solids" (TDS) meter with their filters—the instant-zero reading it provides is one of their markers of quality. However, there are two main methods of TDS measurement—according to Wikipedia, at least:


The Zerowater TDS meter reads instantly, suggesting it's making an electric/conductive measurement, not gravimetric. Therefore, again, a zero reading would not indicate an absence of OSA, which has a neutral charge.

So, I'm not sure what to think. I don't want to use a Brita filter. I can just keep drinking the water as I've been making it, and seeing if I notice any effects, but I'd hate to think I'm just drinking regular water, without OSA. Or perhaps I should stop doing the filtering altogether, as @Dave Clark suggests here, since my (Pür-filtered) tap water is fairly free of aluminum, and the ingredients I'm using in the Silicade are pretty high-purity:

Silica, present in most supplements/food, activates the endotoxin receptor (TLR4)

Thanks, I have diatomaceous earth but have not used it internally. My concern that even the dissolved product may not be fully dissolved. I will look into it again. Here is a link to Rays thoughts on powder spirulina powder charcoal diatomaceous earth. He focuses on contamination. View...

raypeatforum.com

After all, what are these "impurities" alluded to in the Silicade FAQ? More information would be helpful, if anyone has thoughts!

No doubt, this is a complicated and technical process. Like many, I rely and put faith in those who know far more than me. Even so, at the end of day, we're responsible for what we're consuming.

With regard to the Brita producing poor results, that does not surprise me. For decades now I've heard they were sub-par, but for the purpose of making silicade they seem to be the right filter: allowing for the silica to remain, and properly filtering the added ingredients; at least that's what we're told by Dr. Crouse. He has claimed that he's tested and confirmed all that he's relaying to his audience.

All your concerns about the Zero filter are probably warranted; at the least, it's worth knowing the answers. I've heard the same thing, that the TDS reading they use to tout the quality of their water may be superficial and not a proper measurement.

With all the questions and what-if's, I come back to the reliance on Dr. Crouse for the truth of what he's relaying. That's why I've chosen to use the Brita filter, with the objective of retaining the silica—the whole purpose for this water. For more complete answers we'd have to have the water tested.

EDIT: P.S. I believe it's fair to say that Dr. Crouse's assumption that tap water is being used, assumes the water will only have so much heavy metals, as allowed by state and city regulations.

 

[Mossy]

Adding @Dave Clark

I'm glad this thread was started, because I actually had a question as I was making this silicade for the first time last week.

During step 3 of the process, after a level dash of sodium bisulfate, I'm not getting the same pH that Dr. Crouse notes in his recipe:

3) One level dash (1/8 of a teaspoon, 0.83 gr, 6.9 mM) of sodium bisulfate is added to the solution of OSA and dissolved with stirring in order to acidify the solution to pH 4 to 5. Optionally, if tap water is more basic than pH 8.5, use a pH meter while slowly adding a little more sodium bisulfate in order to lower the pH to 4.0-5.0. A pH 7.0 standard solution is recommended for periodic calibration of the pH meter.

I'm getting a pH of under 4.0, between 3.2 - 3.75. The remedy to this seems pretty self-explanatory, simply use less sodium bisulfate next time—which I'll do.

Does any one see any concern in consuming the water I've made (4 gallons) where the pH was not in the 4-5 range as step 3 notes? Will something be off, chemically?

 

[cjm]

I'm getting a pH of under 4.0, between 3.2 - 3.75. The remedy to this seems pretty self-explanatory, simply use less sodium bisulfate next time—which I'll do.

That seems logical per his instructions: "Optionally, if tap water is more basic than pH 8.5, use a pH meter while slowly adding a little more sodium bisulfate in order to lower the pH to 4.0-5.0."

What is your tap water pH?

My pH meter is busted, I ought to get a new one for making this. I did make mine without the benefit of knowing pH but it seems crucial for the OSA to form.

After all, what are these "impurities" alluded to in the Silicade FAQ? More information would be helpful, if anyone has thoughts!

Great question, would love to know, though I suppose I'm not too concerned. If baking powder (bottom right, top of "Other") has as much aluminum as quoted, I should stop eating so many cookies and not worry about the trace amounts in water.

Reference: Sci-Hub | Dietary and Other Sources of Aluminium Intake. Ciba Foundation Symposium 169 - Aluminium in Biology and Medicine, 26–49 | 10.1002/9780470514306.ch3

~

For what it's worth, my fingernails have started growing again after growing incredibly slowly for a few weeks. This usually happens when I get more magnesium, though they weren't growing like this when I was taking a gram of magnesium acetate for 3 weeks straight recently. My Silicade accidentally has way too much magnesium (320 mg/Ml, or 2 teaspoons of magnesium chloride hexahydrate in ~4 liters. I was going for equal amounts of magnesium and calcium -- I doubled Crouse's recipe for added calcium but accidentally quadrupled the magnesium. I may or may not put that much in next time because I can swear the water tastes slightly bitter. Before I added extra magnesium, my water was 160 mg/mL calcium and 40 mg/mL magnesium and it was deliciously "soft" tasting,

 

[bagotage]

Not a direct reply to anyone so far, but I'm going back through my reasoning process, and I'm pretty sure using a ZeroWater filter—or any other ion-exchange filter—instead of Brita should be fine. Crouse is worried about 1) aluminum, and 2) "impurities" in the ingredients. Ion exchange will take care of both of those, but will leave OSA, which is neither positively nor negatively charged (ion exchange targets charged ions). And, again, TDS meters will not detect presence of OSA, because they also detect only dissolved solids with a non-neutral charge. Gonna make another batch of Silicade now :)

As a side note, I'm reading about Berkey, which claims to use ion exchange, yet somehow also leave behind "good" minerals. Clearly, this is not possible—ion exchange takes the "good" with the "bad," as long as they're positively or negatively charged. So, I wouldn't trust Berkey with my drinking water, if only because their marketing seems dishonest—but they'd probably work fine for this step in the Silicade process, too.

 

[Mossy]

What is your tap water pH?

My pH meter is busted, I ought to get a new one for making this. I did make mine without the benefit of knowing pH but it seems crucial for the OSA to form.

I use filtered tap water from a paid local source. Last I checked it, it was 7.5 ph.

That was my concern about having the pH under 4.0, after adding the sodium bisulfate, that the OSA would not have properly formed.

 

[Dave Clark]

I question how much 'aluminum' is in the 'ingredients', especially if they are high purity lab ingredients, which I believe they are. If {?{ there is any in those small amounts of ingredients, it would be far less than you would even find in a normal food supply, plus, the OSA is the compound we are drinking to grab any aluminum in our body, from any source. Filtering from a 'questionable' filter is going to be less effective at reducing aluminum by possibly removing the OSA, than not filtering and having the OSA, with a possible modicum of aluminum {still in question, maybe a COA from the company would put that to rest}.
I think we have other more important sources of aluminum to be concerned with:

Sources of Aluminum in our daily lives

prevent-alzheimers-autism-stroke.blogspot.com

 

[bagotage]

I question how much 'aluminum' is in the 'ingredients', especially if they are high purity lab ingredients

I interpreted Dennis's concern as being about impurities resulting from the chemical reactions in the forming of the OSA, not necessarily about aluminum or other heavy metals in the raw ingredients themselves. Again, don't know enough chemistry to say what that might mean, but it seems reasonable or even likely that, for example, the Silicade could contain some small amount of silicon dioxide, or other silicon molecules, etc.

 

[bagotage]

My pH meter is busted, I ought to get a new one for making this.

I like the strips, they're super cheap and simple.

 

[Dave Clark]

I interpreted Dennis's concern as being about impurities resulting from the chemical reactions in the forming of the OSA, not necessarily about aluminum or other heavy metals in the raw ingredients themselves. Again, don't know enough chemistry to say what that might mean, but it seems reasonable or even likely that, for example, the Silicade could contain some small amount of silicon dioxide, or other silicon molecules, etc.

Not sure about that, but I heard him talk about getting any aluminum in the Silicade water, on his video. This is also an excerpt from his instructions:

This Brita filter is a combined activated carbon and weak cation exchange resin that removes cations like aluminum but does not remove OSA174.​

it sounds to me like he is concerned about getting any aluminum out that could be in the Silcade water, to which I am not sure just how much that would even be, considering the purity of the ingredients. Also, impurities are not always defined as harmful or bad, they can be inert. It would be important to know if there is any aluminum in the impurities. Having said that, I use the Brita pitcher, but I still wonder if it is even necessary, providing your starting water is as pure as you can get it. I use a Zero pitcher and filter it twice before making the Silicade.

 

[Mossy]

In case this is helpful for anyone, here are my numbers for the various stages of making silicade.

My starting pH was higher than Dr. Crouse's; and strangely I needed only half the sodium bisulfate in the recipe to get to the 4-5 pH range, per his recipe.

Also, my post Brita filter pH and my final pH is higher than what he noted we should be getting.

Filtered starting water:
Water pH: 6.64, 66°F

1 dash, 2 smidgens sodium silicate:
Post-silica pH: 10.36, 66°F (9.8)

2 smidgens sodium bisulfate:
Pre-Brita filter pH : 4.25, 67°F (range 4-5)

Post-Brita filter, pre-additives pH: 4.94, 68°F (4.4)

2 smidgen baking soda,
2 dash calcium,
1 dash magnesium:
Final pH: 7.65, 66°F (6.6)

 

[Mossy]

Something worth noting that hit me for the first time, after watching Dr. Crouse's YouTube video on the making of silicade, is the reasoning for acidifying the OSA solution with the sodium bisulfate prior to Brita filter:

"We get rid of most of the aluminum when it's acidified."

 

[cjm]

impurities are not always defined as harmful or bad, they can be inert.

I'm not filtering the water anymore. It's not that I explicitly trust the ingredients but it has become above my pay grade to quantify harm in this case.

1 dash, 2 smidgens sodium silicate:
Post-silica pH: 10.36, 66°F (9.8)

"The hot water with dissolved sodium silicate is immediately diluted to one gallon (3.785 liters) with cold tap water resulting in a 1.29 mM/liter (124ppm) solution of pH 9.8 OSA."

This is your post-dilution pH reading as well, just making that clear.

I want to know the pH immediately after boiling. It just struck me that maybe you should have boiled for longer.

Side note: it bothers me a little that the 124ppm concentration he's quoting here only happens after the water sits for a week. He should have said 108ppm.

"In order to form OSA and other silica species in equilibrium with OSA and to prevent OSA polymerization, immediately dilute the basic (e.g. pH=13) OSA solution to a gallon with tap water and then immediately render the solution non-hazardous by acidifying the solution to pH 4 to 5 with the solid acid sodium bisulfate. A 1.29mM OSA solution is well below OSA’s saturation level in water (e.g. 2-3mM) but requires 7 days to fully stabilize rising from 108ppm immediately after preparation to 124ppm. Polymerization of OSA has been observed at neutral pH only well above OSA’s 200ppm saturation level."

2 smidgens sodium bisulfate:
Pre-Brita filter pH : 4.25, 67°F (range 4-5)

Post-Brita filter, pre-additives pH: 4.94, 68°F (4.4)

the reasoning for acidifying the OSA solution with the sodium bisulfate prior to Brita filter:

"We get rid of most of the aluminum when it's acidified."

The Brita certainly gets rid of the aluminum, by physically removing it. What does bilsulfate do with aluminum?

The bisulfate is there is minimize "polymerization" - which happens at a neutral pH, and at "well above" the OSA saturation level.

Your pH 7.6 is probably fine given that Silicade is well below the saturation level.

Do you know what's wrong with polymerization? Like, what is its deal, such that one is required to "render the solution non-hazardous by acidifying the solution to pH 4 to 5 with the solid acid sodium bisulfate"?

 

[cjm]

My starting pH was higher than Dr. Crouse's; and strangely I needed only half the sodium bisulfate in the recipe to get to the 4-5 pH range, per his recipe.

That's remarkable. I thought a short boil was your culprit, but realized it was too long if anything given where you started. I'm stumped

I tried using pH strips to test mine, but I think due to relative blindness and terminal laziness, I'll get one with a digital display.

Report back when I make my third batch.

 

[Mossy]

"The hot water with dissolved sodium silicate is immediately diluted to one gallon (3.785 liters) with cold tap water resulting in a 1.29 mM/liter (124ppm) solution of pH 9.8 OSA."

This is your post-dilution pH reading as well, just making that clear.

To confirm, yes, that 10.3 pH is my post-dilution pH reading. I can also confirm I get around that number every time. The last 3 readings were all in a pH range of 10.23-10.4

I want to know the pH immediately after boiling. It just struck me that maybe you should have boiled for longer.

I did a quick test. I boiled the sodium silicate in the 1 oz. of water for 60 seconds, and then another batch for 70 seconds; I got 10.95pH at 135°, and 10.8 pH at 137°, respectively.

By way of a scale, I do know that I had slightly more water for the 70 second boil. I think at this point I'm splitting hairs, unless you can point out something that would make boiling the silicate solution longer a better thing. It's worth pointing out that the water begins to boil right at the 30 second mark; so, the water is definitely boiling for 30 seconds, as Dr. Crouse says to do. But, as we can see, I'm not getting anywhere near the pH of 13 that he notes.

Side note: it bothers me a little that the 124ppm concentration he's quoting here only happens after the water sits for a week. He should have said 108ppm.

I did note that. I just make sure to make water at least a week in advance.

The Brita certainly gets rid of the aluminum, by physically removing it. What does bilsulfate do with aluminum?Do you know what's wrong with polymerization?

Like, what is its deal, such that one is required to "render the solution non-hazardous by acidifying the solution to pH 4 to 5 with the solid acid sodium bisulfate"?

I'm clueless about polymerization; I only know what Dr. Crouse has said about acidifying the post-diluted silicate with the bisulfate, that it's necessary in order to filter out the aluminum with the Brita filter. I could guess that this is rendering it "non-hazardous", by allowing for the aluminum to be taken out; and maybe in addition, by reducing the high alkaline state of it, apart from the aluminum aspect.

Your pH 7.6 is probably fine given that Silicade is well below the saturation level.

Yes. It was always my goal to get a final pH of around 7.7, which mimics Fiji water.

 

[Mossy]

That's remarkable. I thought a short boil was your culprit, but realized it was too long if anything given where you started. I'm stumped

I tried using pH strips to test mine, but I think due to relative blindness and terminal laziness, I'll get one with a digital display.

Report back when I make my third batch.

For now, I'm going to stick with his instructions to make sure to boil the silicate in 1 oz of water for 30 seconds; which requires 60 seconds total in the microwave.

I think I will do a future test of less than 60 seconds, just to see if I get a higher pH. But, like I mention above, maybe it's just splitting hairs and the difference in pH is simply the difference in the starting water pH.

 

[cjm]

Yes. It was always my goal to get a final pH of around 7.7, which mimics Fiji water.

Well nice work then :)

I think I will do a future test of less than 60 seconds, just to see if I get a higher pH. But, like I mention above, maybe it's just splitting hairs and the difference in pH is simply the difference in the starting water pH.

As soon as I clean/calibrate my meter, I will provide some data.

 

[Juliampersand]

However, after doing some research, I noticed that some people have reported that Brita filters actually add aluminum:

I had the same thought process as you regarding this issue!
How is the ZeroFilter going? Or the non-filtering one of you mentioned? I wondered about soaking the silicade in coffee grounds for 30 hours.
About to make my first batch soon!

 

[bagotage]

I had the same thought process as you regarding this issue!
How is the ZeroFilter going? Or the non-filtering one of you mentioned? I wondered about soaking the silicade in coffee grounds for 30 hours.
About to make my first batch soon!

Seems fine, why coffee grounds, a kind of DIY filter?

 

[Juliampersand]

Yeah: Coffee Grounds May Filter Out Heavy Metals In Water