Strange "withdrawal"-like Symptoms. Can Someone Help?

Peata

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I'm trying to figure out what's doing this to me. Here is what's changed.

I've been on Vitex since the end of November. I used 1,200 mg., raised the dose for a month to 1,600, then back to 1,200 since beginning of March. I decided to go off it. I lowered dose to 800 mg. on Sunday. I then stopped altogether on Wed.

I took 200 mg. pregnenolone on Wed and none since.

I've had a hard time with lightheadedness, anxiety, heart pounding feeling, malaise. It started around 2 p.m. Wed. It went away last night, thought it was done. It came back when I was having breakfast today. It's been mostly tolerable all day. But it gets worse at times. I find it hard to focus on reading and writing, and it's hard for me to write this post.

I thought perhaps my heart was beating too fast, but when I check it, the pulse is normal. But I can feel a sensation in my chest. Not pain or pressure. I started to wonder if it was my lungs because I have to gasp for air now and then. As if I can't get enough. Maybe related to the anxiety feeling going on that I'm trying to get rid of.

I'm OK if I'm sitting around, but if I get up and try to do much, the weird head feeling gets stronger. It's sort of an all-over bad feeling now though....

Just got back from an easy walk around the neighborhood. I started feeling really bad on this walk. I began to realize something.

The way I feel reminds me of SSRI discontinuation syndrome, which I've suffered through several times in the past, quitting Paxil, Lexapro, etc... This isn't as bad, but it's pretty bad. I'm in bed now. I ate and am resting and feeling a little better.

What gives? Could there be something to stopping the Vitex? I read it acts on mu opioid receptors. Agonizes D2 receptors. But I've never read about people having a withdrawal on the forums I perused - mostly women trying to conceive. Maybe it's something else in the Vitex. Or it might not be the Vitex at all.

This started the same day I took 200 mg pregnenolone (spread out over about 8 hr). That's the day I quit Vitex. I've missed a dose of Vitex here and there and never had these symptoms. So I don't know.

I don't know if any of you have ideas on what could be going on either. If you do, I'd like to hear them.

I find it really sucks to be experiencing this. Because I never thought I'd ever have these SSRI type symptoms again - I was never going to touch them again, and I haven't, yet here are similar symptoms.

Adding for more info: Vitex raises dopamine, progesterone, lowers prolactin. GABA agonist.

Also, about 15 min. ago I took 800 mg. Vitex just to see if it helps the symptoms go away.
 
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j.

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It would probably be good to figure out if it's vitex withdrawal or taking the pregnenolone supplement.

That said, I'm just going to mention again what I said in your 3 months thread. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence against that particular pregnenolone product (MRM) including iHerb reviews and also people here on the forum. See this post:

Lin said:
I tried 100 mg of pregnolone yesterday, but woke up at 3am having hot flashes.

Full post
 
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Peata

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OK, I'll look that over when I can. Thanks.

Just to clarify though, I haven't taken any pregn. since that one day on Wed.
 
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Peata

Peata

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I took a big dose of Progest-E a while ago - squirted a line along bottom gums and another on top gums. I feel quite a bit better.
 

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You may be more sensitive to various things like additives in supplements than you realize. I was pretty surprised that I reacted to hypoallergenic plant cellulose so strongly.
Progest-e to the rescue!
 
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Peata

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Ginger capsules and Progest E were my saviors in this.

I think the pregnenolone raised my morning body temperature. Before, it was always 97.0 - 97.2 in the mornings. Since I took that dose of pregnenolone last Wed, it's 97.5 - 97.8 in the mornings.
 
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Peata

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j. said:
It would probably be good to figure out if it's vitex withdrawal or taking the pregnenolone supplement.

That said, I'm just going to mention again what I said in your 3 months thread. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence against that particular pregnenolone product (MRM) including iHerb reviews and also people here on the forum. See this post:

Lin said:
I tried 100 mg of pregnolone yesterday, but woke up at 3am having hot flashes.

Full post


I don't think it was Vitex withdrawal after all. I think the pregnenolone started up something that maybe my body was not prepared for. If I'd been in better shape with my thyroid, I think it would have all been positive, but instead I got more bad effects along with some positive.
 
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Peata

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erraticpattern said:
How long did it take you to recover?

I lost my records I kept online, but the first and worst bout of it, took several days at least, but I was fine within a week as I recall.

I think the pregnenolone was just too much for my system for some reason. I don't know if it raised cortisol, lowered blood sugar, raised metabolism too much, etc. No idea. I don't touch it anymore. Maybe I'll give it another try someday.
 
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Peata said:
erraticpattern said:
How long did it take you to recover?

I lost my records I kept online, but the first and worst bout of it, took several days at least, but I was fine within a week as I recall.

I think the pregnenolone was just too much for my system for some reason. I don't know if it raised cortisol, lowered blood sugar, raised metabolism too much, etc. No idea. I don't touch it anymore. Maybe I'll give it another try someday.

I've gotten the exact same symptoms as you and several more, all remarkably similar to those experienced by people undergoing benzo or SSRI withdrawal.

I was on preg for a month, though, and am still going through hell more than five months later.
 
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Peata

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How long had you been taking pregnenolone when the symptoms started?
 
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Peata said:
How long had you been taking pregnenolone when the symptoms started?

From the first dose, but my prescribing doctor kept telling me that it was all part of the process of my body "optimizing its hormonal balance". Things got progressively worse until they eventually spiraled completely out of control.
 
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Peata

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As I recall there may have been occasional "flash back" symptoms even for a while (weeks?) after I stopped taking it, mostly occurring after a meal. Eventually this went away too.
 
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Peata

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erraticpattern said:
Peata said:
How long had you been taking pregnenolone when the symptoms started?

From the first dose, but my prescribing doctor kept telling me that it was all part of the process of my body "optimizing its hormonal balance". Things got progressively worse until they eventually spiraled completely out of control.

See, that's what I thought at first too, that my body was just adjusting to this new hormone balance the preg. was creating, and that it would level out and I'd feel good eventually. I took two or three doses that first day (total of 200 mg? I'd have to read back to see for sure), then I think I tried to take some for a couple more days, but it just put me through a hellish time. After it cleared out, I still tried to take small doses one day per week or more, but eventually the symptoms would start to come back. I don't know why it affected us the way it did, and I never really found anyone but you online that seems to have had the same bad exerience with it.

How long have you been off it now?
 
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Peata said:
As I recall there may have been occasional "flash back" symptoms even for a while (weeks?) after I stopped taking it, mostly occurring after a meal. Eventually this went away too.

I've spent some time compiling anecdotal reports of people who have responded to pregnenolone in the way that you and I did, and have been collecting some research on the mechanisms responsible and why it is that it would be so damn similar to benzno/SSRI withdrawal.

Just hearing that it eventually went away for you gives me some hope.
 
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Peata said:
erraticpattern said:
Peata said:
How long had you been taking pregnenolone when the symptoms started?

From the first dose, but my prescribing doctor kept telling me that it was all part of the process of my body "optimizing its hormonal balance". Things got progressively worse until they eventually spiraled completely out of control.

See, that's what I thought at first too, that my body was just adjusting to this new hormone balance the preg. was creating, and that it would level out and I'd feel good eventually. I took two or three doses that first day, then I think I tried to take some for a couple more days, but it just put me through a hellish time. After it cleared out, I still tried to take small doses one day per week or more, but eventually the symptoms would start to come back. I don't know why it affected us the way it did, and I never really found anyone but you online that seems to have had the same bad exerience with it.

How long have you been off it now?

I've been off it for over five months and am going on my sixth month of horrible symptom burden.



Pregnenolone alters the NMDA receptor
http://m.jneurosci.org/content/24/46/10318.full

Pregnenolone sulfate modulates NMDA receptors, inducing and potentiating acute excitotoxicity in isolated retina.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9856862

Pregnenolone sulfate exacerbates NMDA-induced death of hippocampal neurons
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 9398006404

Pregnenolone sulfate potentiates the effects of NMDA on hippocampal alanine and dopamine.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15301935

Excitotoxicity of both Preg and DHEA
http://books.google.com/books?id=D1fOTC ... ty&f=false

Chronic pregnenolone effects in normal humans: attenuation of benzodiazepine-induced sedation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14749094

Pregnenolone inhibits GABA currents while enhanching NMDA currents, shifting the balance towards an excited neuronal state
http://books.google.com/books?id=00JbUu ... al&f=false

Convulsant actions of the neurosteroid pregnenolone sulfate in mice.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10411990
 
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Peata

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I'm sorry to hear it's continued so long. I assume you've been on SSRI or benzos before? If so, how long did it take for the discontinuation syndrome to go away?
 
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Peata said:
I'm sorry to hear it's continued so long. I assume you've been on SSRI or benzos before? If so, how long did it take for the discontinuation syndrome to go away?

Nope, have never been on any kind of psychoactive drug before pregnenolone. The total inability of the medical community to understand what it was that happened to me caused me to spend tons of time researching, trying to figure out on my own what could have happened.

Protracted benzo withdrawal is simply something that I've found to have matched my symptom burden precisely, and such withdrawal symptoms are known to likely be a result of systemic neural excitotoxicity after withdrawing the benzo. Given that pregnenolone has excitotoxic effects and inhibits GABA receptors while enhancing NMDAR action, it explains why it is that what I'm experiencing is so damn similar to benzo/SSRI withdrawal.
 
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Peata

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I've experienced SSRI discontinuation syndrome several times over the years, and it felt exactly like what pregnenolone did to me.

What has your doctor done to help you, offered any solutions, advice?

What are you doing to help the symptoms?
 
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Peata

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Also, are you eating "Peat-like" or did you just find the forum through my posts about pregnenolone?
 
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