Taking Enzymes To Lyse Plaque, BP Rising, WBC, Urinating A Lot-Frustrated

[Tarmander]

Thanks Tarmander. Those could help - chondroitin sulfate and cholesteryl sulfate production. I'll have to add those in the future as a consideration.

It's also interesting that eNOS plays a role in cholesterol sulfate production, thru nitric oxide. I suspect that eNOS is currently directed towards enabling the respiratory burst in phagocytosis of bacteria ever present in the bacterial film intertwined with plaque. That being the case, nitric oxide production is inhibited along with cholesteryl sulfate production, and this has a large bearing on my blood pressure.

Seems like a decently easy test. Take some Chondroitin (6g), Taurine, CoQ10, maybe Garlic...see what happens. The whole case of the bacteria being helpful in there was interesting.

 

[yerrag]

Seems like a decently easy test. Take some Chondroitin (6g), Taurine, CoQ10, maybe Garlic...see what happens. The whole case of the bacteria being helpful in there was interesting.

I'm conflicted about trying this immediately. Yes, it isn't difficult to try, but so is everything else. Not being facetious, but just saying that I still want to first try without it, with my intended plan to use enzymes together with antibiotics. Will monitor and see how my approach goes before modifying it. Adding more things at the start, without gradually working them in would keep me from isolating what works from what has minimal effect, to what is counterproductive.

Sometimes in a desire to get over something quickly, a hodgepodge has worked for me as the luxury of being too methodical is too time-consuming. But in this case, I can afford some leeway to play a little.

 

[Tarmander]

I'm conflicted about trying this immediately. Yes, it isn't difficult to try, but so is everything else. Not being facetious, but just saying that I still want to first try without it, with my intended plan to use enzymes together with antibiotics. Will monitor and see how my approach goes before modifying it. Adding more things at the start, without gradually working them in would keep me from isolating what works from what has minimal effect, to what is counterproductive.

Sometimes in a desire to get over something quickly, a hodgepodge has worked for me as the luxury of being too methodical is too time-consuming. But in this case, I can afford some leeway to play a little.

Antibiotics? Do you worry that you'll kill the good bacteria in your arteries trying to supply your heart with sulfate?

 

[yerrag]

Antibiotics? Do you worry that you'll kill the good bacteria in your arteries trying to supply your heart with sulfate?
View attachment 14078

Given the very likely great extent that periodontal bacteria has defined how my metabolism has been suppressed, to which I also pin as the main suspect for my hypertension, I would have to be more active in dwindling its numbers. The way my white blood cells and neutrophils jumped in numbers during the lysis of plaque is a reaction to bacterial infection unleashed from biofilm disrupted during the lysis process. It tells me I have to do something about these bacteria, and the beneficial bacteria would have to be collateral damage.

I would allay my fears knowing that doxycycline does not totally kill bacteria. It suppresses them. Suppression to a level where it does not require a constantly high level of wbc and neutrophils, of which the resources used to phagocytize bacteria would be better used to support a higher metabolism.

I believe that phagocytosis uses the same substrates and enzymes that are used to make nitric oxide (and cholesterol sulfates downstream to it). The less phagocytotic activity needed to kill bacteria, the less wbc and neutrophils needed. And low wbc and neutrophils in a CBC test attests to a low systemic bacterial level.

With substrates and enzymes freed up to produce nitric oxide, and cholesterol sulfate as well, vasodilation occurs and blood pressure is lowered.

At the same time, less anti-oxidants (glutathione especially) are needed to deal with the excess ROS coming from phagocytotic activity, to keep surrounding tissues from suffering collateral damage.

The resulting larger pool of anti-oxidants is available to deal with the free radicals produced as a result of oxidative respiration by the mitochondria. That allows for more energy production. The wisdom of the body regulates energy production dependent on the availability of antioxidant resources to counter the oxidative damage from mitochondrial respiration.

Reduce the bacterial load so energy is not wasted on fighting recurring battles, and instead use the energy for building.

 

[tara]

Sometimes in a desire to get over something quickly, a hodgepodge has worked for me as the luxury of being too methodical is too time-consuming.

I recognise this. Whose got time to give every possible tactic a three+ month trial separate from every other variable?

 

[yerrag]

I recognise this. Whose got time to give every possible tactic a three+ month trial separate from every other variable?

But I also get the feeling I needed to hold an Erlenmeyer flask wearing a lab gown and have a few strands of curly hair sticking out my scalp while at it lol

oh, and wide-brimmed specs as well

 

[yerrag]

Wanted to share that I've gained more insights arising from this experience, and have found the use of topical turpentine to be very helpful: Instead Of Lowering Blood Pressure, Why Not Increase Heart Rate Instead?

 

[shepherdgirl]

Hi @yerrag ,
I hope your RDW is going down. Have you had it checked recently? or WBC? Have you been taking serratiopeptidase?

 

[yerrag]

Hi @yerrag ,
I hope your RDW is going down. Have you had it checked recently? or WBC? Have you been taking serratiopeptidase?

Thanks for checking. Unfortunately, it actually went up to 13.8 from my baseline of 13.5. But I was kind of thinking that like life, our health issues delight in throwing us curve balls! But that's the bad news. The good news is that my WBC has started to go down. It's at 6.66, which is now back to within the optimal range of 5 - 7.5 (by Dr. Weatherby) but still shooting for 6 and below (based on Dr. Tom Lewis). But neutrophils at 64% still above 60%.

I had adjusted my protocol to a capsule of ZymEssence in the morning, and one of Serrapeptidase at night (120,000 SPU). And with each enzyme capsule, I apply 1 tsp or 5 ml of turpentine over my body. I had stopped doxycline, which I had been taking for 3 weeks at 2x100mg. Turpentine has taken its place, and I'm glad it could measure up to handling the task. The use of turpentine is increasing my heart rate a lot so far, reaching 100 at one point, but mostly settling down in the mid-80s. When the heart rate goes down, it's a cue that I have to stop enzyme intake for a while.

Tomorrow, I'll check my wbc again and see how one week of turpentine use is going for me.

During this time, there is less urination but I'm not satisfied yet. My urine is still foaming, and I have to wake up twice at night to pee. It's an improvement and I'm happy about it, but I think there's more I can do.

I have one refinement that needs some research left (so far). I suspect the foam and the frequent urination has a lot to do with liposaccharides (endotoxin, LPS) from bacteria die-off. @Amazoniac gave me this lead to work on. Ray has talked about activated charcoal for LPS but that's for intestinal action. Just don't know what is its equivalent in the vascular system.

I have a suspicion that the LPS has to do with my RDW going up, as the LPS could be agglomerating with some protein in the blood and causing some buildup or obstruction along the walls of the capillaries in the glomerulus. It doesn't seem like the proteolytic enzymes are effective against it.

The curveballs: Lowering blood pressure turns into lysing plaque. Lysing plaque turns into fighting bacterial infection. Killing bacteria turns into bacterial die-off and LPS issues of capillary blockage (foamy urine and increased urination). Going into Level 4. It's like a video game.

 

[shepherdgirl]

@yerrag
Congratulations on your lower WBC!! That's great! Perhaps I was barking up the wrong tree, and the enzymes ARE attacking biofilm in your arteries.
How is your blood pressure now? Did the terp raise your resting heart rate? How do you propose getting rid of dieoff LPS? Or are you hoping it will gradually leave by itself?

You probably saw this thread:
Endotoxin (LPS) Theory Of Atherosclerosis (CVD)

 

[yerrag]

I'm reading the thread, and though I've read that thread in the past, it makes a lot more sense now. It new again!

The wbc being lower is a great feeling. The funny thing is that it was still lower before I began this project on lysing my plaque. In hindsight, I now realize lysing opened a literal pandora's box of bacteria and the attendant LPS from the die-off. Probably if I just did nothing, the wbc would have kept going down. The plaque would stay as is, the bacteria would just be dormant, and the LPS would just be a trickle. But down the road, the dormant bacteria would rear its ugly head when my immune system goes down (perhaps in my twilight), and the opportunistic bacteria would reap its harvest. So, no regrets. Glad to deal with the issue now than to kick the problems down the road!

My blood pressure hasn't gone down. I think it's because the LPS from the activated and then eliminated bacteria is rebuilding the plaque back up and filling up the space in my capillaries, as seen in increased RDW (which reflects more the tiny capillaries than the large arteries). But with the increased heart rate from turpentine use, blood is still being delivered making sure nutrients are getting through to the needed tissues especially in the kidneys.

But just last night, my heart rate has slowed down. I take that as a sign that the anti-oxidant pool may be getting exhausted and that with the less anti-ocidants a high rate of metabolism cannot be supported. The stress from either or both bacteria and endotoxin saps up my anti-osidant stores (as well as the NADPH needed for production of ROS such as superozide and hydrogen peroxide needed for mitochondrial respiration). So I have to stop the intake of enzymes to stop lysing and the release of bacteria and endotoxins and turn efforts towards killing bacteria, deactivating and binding endotoxins for excretion, and increasing anti-oxidant supply.

Towards that end, I'm taking progesterone, which can deactivate and bind endotoxins (but progesterone can reduce heart rate, but not reduce metabolic rate - bring more efficiency to pumping of blood). I'm continuing with turpentine topical application, and continuing with vitamin C/lysine, vitamin D, oregano oil (3 drops in a VCO base - for antibacterial), topical vitamin K and E (K in am, E in pm), and cascara for emodin (to blunt TLR4 response). May atill add other substances to thwart TLR4 response (b2, b3, cypro), but looking for more substances that will help with deactivating and binding endotoxins.

That may be the focus for a while. It may be that dealing with the endotoxin effectively is the way to lowering my blood pressure.

And then I'll have to work out a long-term regimen where plaque can be lysed at a rate slow enough to be that the bacteria and endotoxin released can be dealt with without causing an excessive response from inflammation. And slowly my blood pressure can work its way back to normalcy.

 

[Ledo]

Hi yerrag,
I have a casual question for you.

Why do you think this particular LPS die off is more toxic than what a body normally deals with in everyday die off from typical antibiotic use for instance?

Why do you think the volume is so high in your case?

Thanks and good luck with this going forward.

 

[yerrag]

Hi yerrag,
I have a casual question for you.

Why do you think this particular LPS die off is more toxic than what a body normally deals with in everyday die off from typical antibiotic use for instance?

Why do you think the volume is so high in your case?

Thanks and good luck with this going forward.

I think that the die-off we usually talk about is from the bacteria that inhabits our digestive tract, and centered on our large intestines. In my case, I'm dealing with bacteria that's been activated from the lysing of plaque within the vascular system, specifically the arterial portion, ranging from the major arteries such as the carotid all the way to the watershed capillaries that feed our various organs. That network of blood vessels is an extensive network, and if this network is pretty much covered in plaque, it would be harboring a large amount of dormant bacteria. A scary large amount, given how much surface area it has. As plaque is lysed, bacteria is activated and released to the blood, and likely endotoxins as well (given that there's a lot of dead bacteria and hence endotoxins that make up this plaque - I'm referring to plaque built up from chronic bacterial infection). The endotoxins released from lysing of plaque, plus the endotoxin die-off from bacteria being killed by antbacterials, as well as from the action of our innate immune system - is a huge load that I think could be overwhelming. Which is why I have to throttle my use of proteolytic enzymes in order to keep this load manageable.

I may be taking this to an alarmist level, but this is my context and may not apply to many people. I've had high blood pressure for more than 15 years, and I learned just last year that it's been due to a latent chronic periodontal bacterial infection. Given the long history and its origin, I can only imagine that the buildup of bacteria and endotoxin through plaque in my blood vessels would be extensive.

 

[shepherdgirl]

Maybe the enzymes have been attacking infection somewhere else in the body, and therefore RDW remained the same.

 

[Hairfedup]

Do you have any lipoma if you don't mind me asking?

 

[yerrag]

Maybe the enzymes have been attacking infection somewhere else in the body, and therefore RDW remained the same.

We're both honing in on the enzymes, but for different reasons. I can't see existing active infection (whether chronic or acute) as a big issue as inflammatory markers hsCRP and ESR and LDH have my condition as being low level (CRP at 0.8 is low, but still higher than 0.6; LDH slightly above range at 235, slightly above 225) and ESR at 0.

I think that if I stop enzyme intake for a while, I wouldn't be activating dormant bacteria in plaque nor releasing endotoxins as plaque is being lysed. If I then focus on deactivating and eventually excreting the existing load of endotoxins that are floating around in the blood, then the endotoxin load would be lowered significantly. Meanwhile, bacterial infection would have subsided as antibacterials tamp them down.

​

At this point, I could start to see improvements in many areas - heart rate, blood pressure, triglyceride levels, obesity, arthritis, eyesight, memory, and hair growth. In noticed that during the period I was taking enzymes, my heart rate went slightly down, blood pressure jumped, my waist expanded, eyesight became less sharp, memory worsened (can't name names or was grasping for words to use), and hair thinned (such that I can see through the thinning hair into the scalp more).

Not to mention that I urinated excessively during an LPS shitstorm (when I was taking a large amount of serrapeptidase and releasing too much endotoxins from plaque being lysed) and I was feeling very low energy and sleepy during this time, perhaps it affected my blood sugar regulation).

As for triglyceride, I realized now that it also explains why I've had high triglycerides for a while now.: Endotoxin rapidly induces changes in lipid metabolism that produce hypertriglyceridemia: low doses stimulate hepatic triglyceride production while ... - PubMed - NCBI

Hyperlipidemia frequently accompanies infectious diseases and may be due to increases in lipoprotein production or decreases in lipoprotein clearance...
...At high doses of LPS (50 micrograms/100 g body weight), the clearance of triglyceride-rich lipoproteins was decreased. At low doses of LPS (100 ng/100 g body weight), triglyceride clearance was not altered but the hepatic secretion of triglyceride was increased. Low dose LPS stimulated hepatic de novo fatty acid synthesis and lipolysis, both of which provided a source of fatty acids for the increase in hepatic triglyceride production. High dose LPS did not increase hepatic fatty acid synthesis or peripheral lipolysis, and hepatic triglyceride secretion was not stimulated. Thus, low dose LPS produces hypertriglyceridemia by increasing hepatic lipoprotein production, while high dose LPS produces hypertriglyceridemia by decreasing lipoprotein catabolism. ​

There's more. I've wondered also why my RBC, hemoglobin, and hematocrit, and neutrophils and monocytes have (since 15 years ago) been higher than their optimal values. I finally realize that it's also because of endotoxins : Effects of bacterial lipopolysaccharide injection on white blood cell counts, hematological parameters, and serum glucose, insulin, and cortisol concentrations in ewes fed low- or high-protein diets

Abstract :Bacterial lipopolysaccharide endotoxins (LPS) elicit inflammatory responses reflective of acute bacterial infection...
...but neutrophil and monocyte fractions of white blood cells were increased (P ≤ 0.047) by LPS at 12 and 24 h and at 24 h after bolus, respectively...
...Red blood cell and hemoglobin concentrations and hematocrit (%) were elevated (P ≤ 0.022) by LPS at 2 and 4 h after bolus.
​

What I'm discovering here is that I should no longer take for granted Ray Peat's and @haidut 's and @ecstatichamster 's constant mention of endotoxins. I'm actually the embodiment of someone who has fallen victim to the vagaries of being exposed to endotoxins and failing to recognize it until now. Thankfully, I had to see the effects magnified in my course on enzymes. Seeing the side-effects and connecting the dots, I now have to turn my full attention towards dealing with endotoxins by a combination of blunting its effects on TLR4 receptors (which lead to inflammation) and towards facilitating its excretion through the liver.

Speaking of the liver, I have to provide it with substances that would promote endotoxin clearance. This may explain why my cholesterol and triglycerides levels are high, as these are needed to produce bile, which is needed for the elimination of endotoxins. Supplementing with taurine would be helpful as well.

As for dealing with endotoxins, progesterone would be needed to deactivate endotoxins while vitamin A, D, B2, B3, emodin, and cyproheptadine, I would need to blunt the TLR4 receptors.

 

[danishispsychic]

I would go for Garlic here of a good round of colonics.

 

[Owen B]

Ultrasound scans are scams. McDougall has an article on his feed about how MDs "diagnose" plaque. It's by confusing it with old fibrotic healing in the artery.

The next thing they'll be telling you that you need angioplasty and stents.

The American Cardiology Assn. told cardiologists to cut back on the procedures, being aware of how the procedure can cause complications. But most cardiologists continue to do them. It's too lucrative. One doctor reported that doing angioplasties was "fun".

 

[yerrag]

I would go for Garlic here of a good round of colonics.

Never had a colonic nor enema but curious about how using garlic in colonics would help. Is it the sulfite in garlic or the allicin in garlic?

Ultrasound scans are scams. McDougall has an article on his feed about how MDs "diagnose" plaque. It's by confusing it with old fibrotic healing in the artery.

The next thing they'll be telling you that you need angioplasty and stents.

The American Cardiology Assn. told cardiologists to cut back on the procedures, being aware of how the procedure can cause complications. But most cardiologists continue to do them. It's too lucrative. One doctor reported that doing angioplasties was "fun".

I don't know that they're scams but just the same I think their use is limited. The scans only see something in advanced stages, which means it's mostly useful when you're already screwed. I can't rely on it to tell me there's something at initial stages, when you can nip it at the bud. It gives people the wrong impression they're fine when they're not. So my nit is on it giving false negatives, and with this false sense of comfort, they get deeper in disease.

But what you're saying is that it gives false positives, and false positives are just as misleading.

 

[Amazoniac]

- Endotoxin and Other Microbial Translocation Markers in the Blood: A Clue to Understand Leaky Gut Syndrome

Spoiler: Which is TLR?

- toll like receptors ligands - Google Search

- Toll-like Receptors in the Vascular System: Sensing the Dangers Within

- Die Not-So-Sterile Inflammation "LTA"