Taurine Doubles Liver Glycogen

[milk_lover]

It's difficult to get a lot of simple sugars without drinking a lot of water.. lean starch, which is loaded with salt, can be practical to fill out glycogen without overflowing your body with so much liquid. I don't enjoy salting my sugary drinks (OJ, milk). It feels unnatural.

 

[Katty]

Yes, not only is it possible but studies showed all of them absorbed with 90%+ efficiency. I am thinking of adding some aminos to some of my products or making a separate amino product altogether.

@haidut I know you are always busy creating something new. Wondering if you are thinking of a topical amino product in the near future? I'd personally like something for the liver. At least taurine, and perhaps glycine, theanine, and maybe caffeine. I could spread it right over my liver. I still can't tolerate aminos orally.

 

[haidut]

@haidut I know you are always busy creating something new. Wondering if you are thinking of a topical amino product in the near future? I'd personally like something for the liver. At least taurine, and perhaps glycine, theanine, and maybe caffeine. I could spread it right over my liver. I still can't tolerate aminos orally.

The aminos are needed in a significant dose to benefit the liver and they do not absorb very well through the skin. If they do absorb they tend to not reach the bloodstream. So, a topical product with caffeine, vitamin K, and methylene blue is much more feasible but these already exist separately so not sure what would be the benefit of making a separate product like that.

 

[Katty]

The aminos are needed in a significant dose to benefit the liver and they do not absorb very well through the skin. If they do absorb they tend to not reach the bloodstream. So, a topical product with caffeine, vitamin K, and methylene blue is much more feasible but these already exist separately so not sure what would be the benefit of making a separate product like that.

@haidut OK, thanks for the reply. I thought earlier in this post you said aminos do absorb well topically- 90% efficiently. Maybe I misunderstood?
Vitamin K causes problems for me. And I'm having a hard time finding a topical caffeine with a high enough dose. My stomach just doesn't tolerate anything so I'm trying to find a way of getting some of these supps in topically.

 

[haidut]

@haidut OK, thanks for the reply. I thought earlier in this post you said aminos do absorb well topically- 90% efficiently. Maybe I misunderstood?
Vitamin K causes problems for me. And I'm having a hard time finding a topical caffeine with a high enough dose. My stomach just doesn't tolerate anything so I'm trying to find a way of getting some of these supps in topically.

Sorry, you are right. Some aminos do absorb well but I don't think they reach the bloodstream. The studies I have seen were on taurine and glycine. Taurine doses of 1g - 1.5g daily are needed for positive effects on the liver and I don't know that this can be achieved topically. As far as caffeine - recent studies showed tat lower doses have a much more pronounced antifibrotic effects for liver - i.e. as little as 100mg - 200mg daily. Those doses should be achievable with 1% - 2% solution applied a few times daily.
Hepatoprotective Effect of Low Doses of Caffeine on CCl4-Induced Liver Damage in Rats. - PubMed - NCBI
Low Concentration of Caffeine Inhibits the Progression of the Hepatocellular Carcinoma via Akt Signaling Pathway. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Katty]

OK, thanks again. Maybe I'll try to whip up a caffeine solution for topical application.

 

[thms]

Would taurine supplementation also increase the glycogen in the muscles ?

 

[Progesterone]

Yes, not only is it possible but studies showed all of them absorbed with 90%+ efficiency. I am thinking of adding some aminos to some of my products or making a separate amino product altogether.

WOW.... that is incredible.

haidut, does vehicle matter here? i.e, if you dissolve Taurine in water, and apply on skin, is that still getting absorbed 90%+? Or does it require a vehicle like ethanol?

 

[Braveheart]

Yes, not only is it possible but studies showed all of them absorbed with 90%+ efficiency. I am thinking of adding some aminos to some of my products or making a separate amino product altogether.

Great idea...looking forward to that

 

[Jon]

I still haven't an answer for this. When I eat starch (white bread) and I supplement taurine, I can go for a long time (5hours+) without feeling hungry/hunger stressed. Maybe I get little bit thirsty but definitely not hungry. But when I repeat the same thing but instead of starch, I eat simple sugar, I don't get this feeling. Is starch better than simple sugars in replenishing glycogen?

Perhaps you found the answer 2 years ago lol but the answer is two fold; yes starch is better at replenishing muscle glycogen, fructose is better at replenishing liver glycogen. So perhaps what you were experiencing was a quell of muscle glycogen depletion (especially if starch is not very present in your diet) while your liver was fully replenished.

Studies I've looked at point to starch being a muscle fuel, And fructose being a liver fuel. Seems when combined they're synergistic in assimilation of one another with the ratios favoring more glucose and less fructose for proper absorption.

 

[mayweatherking]

The dose used was not that high and is a human equivalent of 2,500mg - 3,000mg daily. The other findings of note were that a single dose of taurine was enough to produce that effect, and also that taurine increased the consumption/oxidation of glucose. Taurine induced these effects through elevation of cAMP, which is the main mechanism of action of caffeine as well. Yet another reason to combine taurine and caffeine.
Sounds like taurine could be a good alternative to famotidine for improving glycogen storage.


[Insulin-like effects of taurine]. - PubMed - NCBI

"...A single administration of taurine at a dose of 200 mg per kg of body weight increased the insulin-like activity in blood plasma, elevated two-fold the content of glycogen in liver tissue, decreased content of sugars in blood. In vitro taurine increased the consumption of glucose by isolated diaphragm and increased the insulin activity. The adenilate cyclase activity was increased in incubation mixture, containing the diaphragms and taurine added. The data obtained and the recognized insulin-like effect of 3',5'-AMP and theophylline suggest that the insulin-like action of taurine is mediated through the cyclic 3',5'-AMP."

do you know how long a dose can last? or do you know is taurine absolutely necessary for glycogen? what if someone couldnt utilize caffeine at all, used a small dose for only 2 days, and then even a week or two later, the caffeine is still much better at being tolerated than before.

 

[Mauritio]

Thanks. It is an interesting abstract. (I have no ready access to the original 1976 article.) At 200 mg/kg, would the human equivalent be in the range of 10,000 mg for this single dose finding? Perhaps the smaller amount noted is supplementation over a longer period. Different research models have been supplementing taurine with different routes and amounts.

(Please note I am only noting proportion here, NOT suggesting dosing 10 grams of taurine per day.)

Kudos to haidut for dozens of posts regarding progessive studies about taurine.

http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.100 ... 15126-7_64
Taurine Accelerates Alcohol and Fat Metabolism of Rats with Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease
Gaofeng Wu , Riyi Tang...
Adv Exp Med Biol. 2015;803:793-805. doi: 10.1007/978-3-319-15126-7_64.
"The results indicated that taurine presumably accelerates the metabolism of alcohol and fat in the liver, thereby inhibiting and reversing hepatic fatty degeneration in AFLD rats."

http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.100 ... 15126-7_56
Effects of Taurine Supplementation on Adipose Tissue of Obese Trained Rats
Ana Carolina de Almeida Martiniano , Flávia Giolo De Carvalho, Júlio Sérgio Marchini,...Ellen Cristini de Freitas
Adv Exp Med Biol. 2015;803:707-14. doi: 10.1007/978-3-319-15126-7_56.
"8 weeks of taurine supplementation associated with exercise training was able to reduce visceral fat and decrease the weight of epididymal fat."

Antidepressant-like effect of chronic taurine administration and its hippocampal signal transduction in rats. - PubMed - NCBI
Antidepressant-like effect of chronic taurine administration and its hippocampal signal transduction in rats.
Toyoda A1, Iio W.
Adv Exp Med Biol. 2013;775:29-43. doi: 10.1007/978-1-4614-6130-2_3.
"our discoveries suggest that taurine supplementation has an antidepressant-like effect and an ability to change depression-related signaling cascades in the hippocampus."

Antidepressant dose of taurine increases mRNA expression of GABAA receptor α2 subunit and BDNF in the hippocampus of diabetic rats. - PubMed - NCBI
Antidepressant dose of taurine increases mRNA expression of GABAA receptor α2 subunit and BDNF in the hippocampus of diabetic rats.
Caletti G1, Almeida FB2, Agnes G3, Nin MS4, Barros HM5, Gomez R6.
Behav Brain Res. 2015 Apr 15;283:11-5. doi: 10.1016/j.bbr.2015.01.018. Epub 2015 Jan 19.
"Wistar rats were daily injected with 100mg/kg of taurine or saline, intraperitoneally, for 30 days....Taurine also reversed the lower brain weight and improved the short-term memory in diabetic rats. Thus, the taurine antidepressant effect may be explained by interference with the GABA system, in line to its neuroprotective effect showed here by preventing brain weight loss and improving memory in diabetic rats."

The HED depends on the animal that was used . If the animals were rats haidut was right. If they were mice even 1500mg might be enough! But as far as I see the study does not list which animal they used and the full text isnt available and in russian. So one could take 2500mg just to be safe...

 

[orangeUglad]

I like my red bulls. I get my taurine, caffeine, and glucose all in one magical mixture.

 

[adw]

Wish I could take unfortunately really bothers my intestines when try to take Taurine Would not recommend taking if you have peptic ulcers

 

[Sativa]

Taurine induced these effects through elevation of cAMP, which is the main mechanism of action of caffeine as well. Yet another reason to combine taurine and caffeine.
Sounds like taurine could be a good alternative to famotidine for improving glycogen storage.

Not sure if it's been mentioned before - some info on more PDE4 inhibitors, which enhance cAMP levels. (Caffeine is a PDE4i)

Among all of the PDE isoforms, PDE4 is the major cAMP-degrading enzyme found in inflammatory and immune cells. Selectively inhibiting PDE4 prevents the release of cytokines and other inflammatory factors and hinders the production of reactive oxygen species

Additional context for PDE-4 inhibitors:

Mesembrine, which inhibits the enzyme Phosphodiesterase 4, allows the accumulation of the cellular fuel cAMP.
Sleep deprivation is a result of the accumulation of Phosphodiesterase 4, which lowers your brain's levels of cAMP.
Since Mesembrine raises the levels of cAMP by directly counteracting PDE4, it works as a (temporary, symptomatic only) sleep deprivation treatment.
...
Some PDE4 Inhibitors
include Mesembrine, Rolipram, Ibudilast, Piclamilast, Luteolin, Curcumin and Quercetin

Curcumin was able to inhibit
PDE1, PDE2, PDE3 and PDE4 with IC50 values in the range of 10 to20 μm,
and PDE5 with an IC50 value of35 μm.
...
These results, showing for the first time that curcumin inhibits PDE activities, suggest that curcumin present in food might inhibit angiogenesis at endothelial cell level by inhibiting PDE activities.

Ibudilast (development codes: AV-411 or MN-166) is an anti-inflammatory drug used mainly in Japan, which acts as a phosphodiesterase inhibitor, inhibiting the PDE4 subtype to the greatest extent + TLR4 antagonist
...
Ibudilast is principally a PDE4 inhibitor but has also been shown to act as an antagonist at the toll-like receptor 4 (TLR4).[15] This likely plays a large part in its effect, specifically its synergy with opioid drugs, its anti-inflammatory effect, and its own painkilling effect.[16] It is unknown if the PDE4-inhibiting properties potentiate the effects of TLR4 inactivation and/or vice versa, despite that some of their effects are shared, such as inflammation reducing properties.[17] TLR4 antagonists theoretically reverse the increase in pain and inflammation caused by most TLR4 agonists, which include many opiate and opioid drugs.[18]

Hesperetin, a Selective Phosphodiesterase 4 Inhibitor, Effectively Suppresses Ovalbumin-Induced Airway Hyperresponsiveness without Influencing Xylazine/Ketamine-Induced Anesthesia
Evidence-Based Complementary and Alternative Medicine
http://dx.doi.org/10.1155/2012/472897

Finally, some context combining caffeine's main metabolite & PDE4's interaction with glycogen stores!

84% of caffeine's metabolites consist of paraxanthine
Paraxanthine has a number of physiological effects on animals:

• Paraxanthine is a competitive nonselective phosphodiesterase inhibitor [2] which raises intracellular cAMP, activates PKA, inhibits TNF-alpha [3][4] and leukotriene [5] synthesis, and reduces inflammation and innate immunity [5]
• Paraxanthine is a nonselective adenosine receptor antagonist [6] which raises plasma epinephrine and diastolic blood pressure.
• Paraxanthine is responsible for the lipolytic properties of caffeine, and its presence in the blood causes an increase in serum free fatty acid concentration.
• Paraxanthine, unlike caffeine, acts as an enzymatic effector of Na+/K+ ATPase. As a result, it is responsible for increased transport of potassium ions into skeletal muscle tissue. Similarly, the compound also stimulates increases in calcium ion concentration in muscle.

Theobromine article:As a phosphodiesterase inhibitor, theobromine helps prevent the phosphodiesterase enzymes from converting the active cAMP to an inactive form.[33] cAMP works as a second messenger in many hormone- and neurotransmitter-controlled metabolic systems, such as the breakdown of glycogen.
When the inactivation of cAMP is inhibited by a compound such as
theobromine, the effects of the neurotransmitter or hormone that
stimulated the production of cAMP are much longer-lived. In general, the
net result is a stimulatory effect.

Related to modulators of caffeine metabolism:

Caffeine seems potentiating with all Xanthine Oxidase Inhibitors, alongside with CYP1A2 inhibitor.
...
Cinnamon, Caffeic Acid, Eugenol are Xanthines Oxidase Inhibitors!

CYP1A2 - HerbPedia

 

[GreekDemiGod]

How long would one need to supplement Taurine to get improvements in liver glycogen levels?

 

[Mauritio]

How long would one need to supplement Taurine to get improvements in liver glycogen levels?

As haidut and the study said, even one dose is enough. I think this is true also see effects after a few doses .

 

[Velve921]

Has anyone tried taurine before bed time to see if it helps with glycogen store? I’m trying to see if I can sleep through the night without waking up for a snack to refill.

 

[mrchibbs]

Has anyone tried taurine before bed time to see if it helps with glycogen store? I’m trying to see if I can sleep through the night without waking up for a snack to refill.

I think you need casein (milk is a good source, or a good casein powder). It digests slowly enough that you'll have a steady supply of amino acids throughout the night.
It's been shown to be the ideal food source before bed. I can tell you in the morning you feel different, more ''settled'' feeling.

Taurine is interesting though, I am experimenting with a couple grams in apple sauce along with the milk at night to see how it affects mood/metabolism the next day.

 

[Velve921]

I think you need casein (milk is a good source, or a good casein powder). It digests slowly enough that you'll have a steady supply of amino acids throughout the night.
It's been shown to be the ideal food source before bed. I can tell you in the morning you feel different, more ''settled'' feeling.

Taurine is interesting though, I am experimenting with a couple grams in apple sauce along with the milk at night to see how it affects mood/metabolism the next day.

so far what has been the response since using taurine before bed time?