Thyroid Meds Not Working

[mayweatherking]

This is with 100 mcg T4, 1/2-grain NDT:

TSH: 0.05
Free T3: 3.45 (2.50-3.90)
Free T4: 0.95 (0.60-1.20)
WBC: 4.0 (4.5-10.0)
Glucose Fast: 96 (70-99)
Cholesterol: 233 (150-200)
Triglyceride: 76 (<=149)
HDL: 70
Non-HDL: 163 (<=130)
LDL: 148 (68-100)
VLDL: 15 (4-54)
Total Testosterone: 289 (300-890) - Low

Saliva Test:
DHEAS: 5.5 (2-23) - Low
Cortisol: 7.9 (3.7-9.5)-morning
Cortisol: 2.0 (1.2-3.0)-noon
Cortisol: 0.6 (0.6-1.9)-evening
Cortisol: 0.8 (0.4-1.0)-night

ur testosterone is low AF, ur missing some nutrient, is ur blood pressure high? i would check aldosterone, it will tell you if you are not getting enough salt, then that will waste potassium/magnesium, you could be missing off the top of my head, the liver once a week for vitamin A, the zinc/micronutrients from beef/oysters,

the diziness sounds like high blood pressure, more thyroid doesn't make anything better, are you getting 4700mg of potassium a day? show me what you eat in a day, if you all ready have high aldosterone, then you dont get enough potassium/magnesium, you are goin to have a bad time

 

[Steve]

ur testosterone is low AF, ur missing some nutrient, is ur blood pressure high? i would check aldosterone, it will tell you if you are not getting enough salt, then that will waste potassium/magnesium, you could be missing off the top of my head, the liver once a week for vitamin A, the zinc/micronutrients from beef/oysters,

the diziness sounds like high blood pressure, more thyroid doesn't make anything better, are you getting 4700mg of potassium a day? show me what you eat in a day, if you all ready have high aldosterone, then you dont get enough potassium/magnesium, you are goin to have a bad time

Blood pressure normal.......tested at home & doctor's office. The testosterone definitely is concerning to me. I'm picking up beef liver today, so that'll be added to my diet. I already eat oysters......one jar of fresh oysters every week or every other week. My potassium is 4,078 per day. Magnesium is only 324 mg per day (but I was taking some Magnesium Malate). I'm certain I get enough salt. I'm not shy about using it.

I currently eat about 2,800 calories per day (which is a little low because I was trying to shed some belly fat).
Here are some typical meals:
Upon Waking: Coffee with cream & a little sugar (tested going without this or having after breakfast but it made no difference)
Breakfast: Eggs, oysters, juice (often add sourdough bread & butter).
Lunch: Rice, Grass-fed beef, orange or apple juice (I'll have this twice quite often....2 lunches).
Dinner: Some kind of meat, potatoes, vegetable, fruit juice or applesauce

Other: (Will also have milk & cheese & chocolate during the day. Sometimes organic crispy rice cereal with blueberries, corn tortillas with meat & cheese, shrimp, lamb, ice cream, mushrooms, greens)

My possibly unhealthy addictions are popcorn & beer. I'll have 1 beer per day quite often which I am stopping right now due to testosterone issues. I'll get some new labs after a month or two to see if it helps.
I do not eat vegetable oil.........unless they sneak it into the Thai curry I have occasionally, or if I'm on a trip & desperate, but still it would only be a small amount & few & far meals between.

 

[Sexypizza]

Blood pressure normal.......tested at home & doctor's office. The testosterone definitely is concerning to me. I'm picking up beef liver today, so that'll be added to my diet. I already eat oysters......one jar of fresh oysters every week or every other week. My potassium is 4,078 per day. Magnesium is only 324 mg per day (but I was taking some Magnesium Malate). I'm certain I get enough salt. I'm not shy about using it.

I currently eat about 2,800 calories per day (which is a little low because I was trying to shed some belly fat).
Here are some typical meals:
Upon Waking: Coffee with cream & a little sugar (tested going without this or having after breakfast but it made no difference)
Breakfast: Eggs, oysters, juice (often add sourdough bread & butter).
Lunch: Rice, Grass-fed beef, orange or apple juice (I'll have this twice quite often....2 lunches).
Dinner: Some kind of meat, potatoes, vegetable, fruit juice or applesauce

Other: (Will also have milk & cheese & chocolate during the day. Sometimes organic crispy rice cereal with blueberries, corn tortillas with meat & cheese, shrimp, lamb, ice cream, mushrooms, greens)

My possibly unhealthy addictions are popcorn & beer. I'll have 1 beer per day quite often which I am stopping right now due to testosterone issues. I'll get some new labs after a month or two to see if it helps.
I do not eat vegetable oil.........unless they sneak it into the Thai curry I have occasionally, or if I'm on a trip & desperate, but still it would only be a small amount & few & far meals between.

Yeah you have castrate levels of testosterone. Low testosterone can cause fatigue and low energy.

the fact that you feel like crying also sound so like you might have excess estrogen.

You should really findout why your testo levels so are so low.

You also have high cholesterol which I sent generally a sign of hypothyroidism but in your case it could be due to to the testosterone. Cholesterol is converted into testosterone in the body. Maybe you have a problem converting.

 

[Steve]

Yeah you have castrate levels of testosterone. Low testosterone can cause fatigue and low energy.

the fact that you feel like crying also sound so like you might have excess estrogen.

You should really findout why your testo levels so are so low.

You also have high cholesterol which I sent generally a sign of hypothyroidism but in your case it could be due to to the testosterone. Cholesterol is converted into testosterone in the body. Maybe you have a problem converting.

"Castrate" levels..............great. :)
Well I'm definitely still attracted to girls, so I must have a little bit somewhere in my body.
I have no idea how to find out what's causing the low testosterone. If you know tell me.

Last time I checked estrogen it was ok, but that was a couple years ago. But even then I would break down crying big time. I couldn't stop it from happening........I was very sick at the time.
I remember going for walks & on the way back I'd crash & I'd just feel like crumpling on the sidewalk & I'd break down crying. So not manly! Oh well.

All I know is that I was normal & then I stopped taking an iodine supplement because I read that it could cause problems.
I was just taking supplements for general health (or so I thought).
A week after I stopped I went hyper-thyroid. Best guess is Grave's Disease since I have TSI antibodies.
They can supposedly become "blocking" instead of "stimulating" causing hypo...............blocking what nobody knows as they can latch on to various things.

So I don't know. I'm so frustrated. Feel like I'm doing most things right & can't get my body to go back to normal.
Getting little nuggets of knowledge from Ray Peat does me no good at all because my situation is too complicated...........I wish I could move in his house for a few months until he figures out my problem.

 

[Luckytype]

@Steve have you ever had a prolactin level checked? It could give an idea of estrogen and could help to explain at least one potential reason for lowered T

 

[Steve]

Prolactin was ok, but it was also a couple years ago. I might as well add that to my list for when I go back.
In the meantime I just clicked on Yahoo & there was a story about a woman having legs & arm amputated & a new kidney because doctors failed to diagnose sepsis.
So that's a good reminder to be thankful for the health I do have.

 

[Luckytype]

Prolactin was ok, but it was also a couple years ago. I might as well add that to my list for when I go back.
In the meantime I just clicked on Yahoo & there was a story about a woman having legs & arm amputated & a new kidney because doctors failed to diagnose sepsis.
So that's a good reminder to be thankful for the health I do have.

And a good reminder we have to advocate for ourselves and our families.

I can recall locally a series of people dying from sepsis after intestinal perforation in a few different routine procedures. The families pleaded as they suspected it was sepsis, hospital brushed it off..horrible

 

[Sexypizza]

"Castrate" levels..............great. :)
Well I'm definitely still attracted to girls, so I must have a little bit somewhere in my body.
I have no idea how to find out what's causing the low testosterone. If you know tell me.

Last time I checked estrogen it was ok, but that was a couple years ago. But even then I would break down crying big time. I couldn't stop it from happening........I was very sick at the time.
I remember going for walks & on the way back I'd crash & I'd just feel like crumpling on the sidewalk & I'd break down crying. So not manly! Oh well.

All I know is that I was normal & then I stopped taking an iodine supplement because I read that it could cause problems.
I was just taking supplements for general health (or so I thought).
A week after I stopped I went hyper-thyroid. Best guess is Grave's Disease since I have TSI antibodies.
They can supposedly become "blocking" instead of "stimulating" causing hypo...............blocking what nobody knows as they can latch on to various things.

So I don't know. I'm so frustrated. Feel like I'm doing most things right & can't get my body to go back to normal.
Getting little nuggets of knowledge from Ray Peat does me no good at all because my situation is too complicated...........I wish I could move in his house for a few months until he figures out my problem.

Three is plenty of reason for low testo levels.

It could be primary (damage to the testicles)

Secondary (damage to the pituitary)

Diet & lifestyle (lack of sleep, too much pufa & soy sauce for example)

Hormonal ( hypothyroidism, high estrogen, high prolactin can all lower testosterone)

It could even be a mix of all the above lol

Might be good to go through each one and rule them out. If you are going to do some blood tests you might want to add LH And FSH to the list. This will help rule out if it's primary or secondary.

 

[stsfut]

@Steve how are you doing now? I see some simularities in myself that I hear in your posts.

 

[Steve]

I'm really not sure. I still have dizziness & low energy issues at least for part of each day. It comes & goes. My morning dizziness has gotten better.
I find it harder than normal to workout or do anything strenuous after a stressful day at work (which is every day). If I could get rid of the stress it would definitely help.
After work I feel absolutely drained & lately I've just been walking. I'd like to lift weights, but I feel so wiped out it's hard to get going.
After a few hours being home I'll start to feel better. Unfortunately by then it's time to go to sleep.
So I think stress is a big deal when it comes to my problem, whatever it is.
No new labs lately.

 

[Vida]

@Steve Don’t know if it has been mentioned before but have you tested your SHBG?

 

[Steve]

@Steve Don’t know if it has been mentioned before but have you tested your SHBG?

Not in a very long time. I'm ordering my own so maybe I'll add that one to the list. I've read about it before, so I know it can be important.

I'm waiting to get my labs until I go an entire month or two doing everything mostly right..............eating good, exercising, keeping stress low, etc.
I keep falling off the health wagon. Been way too stressed lately. I do feel better when I eat good & keep stress low.

The low energy can be pretty crushing some days. I had it bad the other evening when I tried to walk 9 holes on the golf course. It was just kind of a torturous dizzy affair. Walking uphill with a golf bag was just too much. Normally that should not be a challenge at all. Today I feel close to normal so far......maybe because I slept good. Sleep quality has a big impact on how I feel too.

 

[Vida]

@Steve Was it high/low/normal then? Think it could be a good idea to include it with other tests. Keep your spirits up!

 

[Steve]

As far as I remember it was just normal. But my health was a disaster when I got the test, so I just ignore those old labs. I was severely hyper, then hypo, so I was all over the place. All of my hormones were out of whack I'm sure. Hopefully my new labs will show some closer-to-normal values. I felt pretty good yesterday. Lifted heavy weights for a few minutes which my body didn't like too much, but I was normal for the most part.

 

[Mike Rees]

I have found real benefits to taking rock salt, 10% Greek yogurt and less carbohydrates. I eat potatoes. Protein from eggs and cheese or Greek yogurt. I take cream and high fat milk.
This has really helped and even allowed me to drop my dose of NDT to 3.25 grains from 3.5. This has also allowed me to exercise a bit (hill walking). It has however been a long process of elimination. I'd agree supplements aren't the whole answer.

I take 2 x Nutri Adrenal Extra (Bvits and adrenal cortex)
1 x Selenium
1 x HCL with pepsin
2 x ProgestE Morning and at bedtime
1 x Ginseng

NDT 2 grains after breakfast (2 hours) 1/4 of a grain post lunch and 1 grain at bedtime.

I often get blood sugar issues around 5 hours after falling asleep and I take 1/4 apple which helps with the shakes / tremors.

I get out in the sunshine without sunglasses and the chemical lather they call sunscreen as often as I can.

 

[Ella]

Have you checked b-vitamin status?
B6? If B6 is OK, then B2, as riboflavin is required to activate b6. You mentioned you did not like liver.

B2 is also required for detoxification p450 pathway along with the other B-vitamins.

Are you getting adequate calcium? What is your B12 status?

You may be pushing phase one too hard and depleting b-vitamins.

Hypothyroidism and riboflavin deficiency look very similar.

Reverse T3 will tell if there is resistance to thyroid hormone. No point supplementing if body is determined to cut off your energy supply to protect you. You need to remove the blocks. Check deficiencies and toxicities along with other stresses, emotional, lack of sunshine, sleep, too much busyness and over exercising and work.

 

[Steve]

I need to get new labs & see where I'm at. I stopped all thyroid meds months ago. Some days I feel ok, some days not. Never feel a normal energy level for the entire day.
I've been eating 1/4 lb beef liver each week. I take a B-Complex (1 per week). I should probably up my calcium intake because I've decreased my milk consumption & don't eat greens.
I know that sleep & stress level have big effects on me if either isn't optimal, so I try to be mindful of both.

So I need to get some new labs & see what's what. My B12 has always come up good. Reverse T3 was ok, but I haven't tested it in a long time, so maybe I'll add that to the list.
My waking temp has been stuck at 97.1 for years now, so I'm sure I'm still hypo. I can get up to 98.6 for a short time in the afternoon. Pulse is 56 right now in the morning.

I need to do something to get out of this hypo condition. I feel like I'm doing just about everything right except job stress. So I don't know what else to do. I guess I can try the meds again, but they had absolutely zero effect no matter what combination I tried, so I'm not too sure about that idea.

 

[Steve]

New labs.
My testosterone numbers improved from last time (still not high enough though), but now my non-fasting glucose is very low which has never happened before.......not sure how stressed out I should be about this.
The tests were done probably 2 hours after breakfast from what I remember.

Testosterone:
Previous 289 (300-890)
Current 399 (264-916)

Free Testosterone:
Current 10.9 (6.8-21.5)

DHEA:
Current 138.9 (71.6-375.4)

Estradiol:
Current 22.6 (7.6-42.6)

Glucose(not fasting):
Current 57 (65-99)

Still hypothyroid (not taking any meds right now), and cholesterol has risen to it's highest levels.
TSH: 4.68
Free T3: 2.4 (2.0-4.4)
Free T4: 1.08 (0.82-1.77)

 

[routepitcher]

Any updates Steve?

 

[Steve]

Any updates Steve?

I see my last post was 2018.
I stopped my thyroid meds at that time and didn't like where my labs went. Then I restarted and kept adjusting until I was just barely over range on Free T4 and Free T3.
Still felt zero effect from thyroid meds. So i stopped again in 2021. After 6 months TSH was 3.9. Free T4 in lower part of range. Free T3 just about perfect.
Still felt no difference with meds and without meds.
Restarted thyroid meds late in 2021 just for the sole purpose of bringing TSH down since it's an inflammatory hormone from what I've read.
Been on it since.

Most of the time I do feel better than 2018, and sometimes I feel pretty close to normal, but never quite there for the entire day.
Cholesterol a little high, glucose a little high, testosterone too low, white blood cells just below range.
So not sure what else to do. I just try to do healthy things every day and what happens, happens.
Stress is the one thing I can't get rid of and it definitely affects my health. Social situations will also affect my health since I'm an introvert.
Still no idea why I don't feel much from thyroid meds. I could eat a 5 mcg T3 pill one after another all day long, and I don't think I would feel a thing (I experimented a couple times.)