What the real protective dose of vit B3 ? danger of high dose !

[NOBRU]

Vitamin B3. Nicotinamide is the active form of niacin, and it is the precursor of coenzymes NADH and NADPH, which are essential for over 200 enzymatic reactions in the organism, especially the production of adenosine triphos- phate (ATP). Meat, fish, and wheat are generally rich in nicotinamide, while vegetables have a low nicotinamide content [21]. Deficiency of nicotinamide/niacin can lead to pellagra, causing dermatitis, diarrhea, and depression [22]. Nicotin- amide has neuroprotective and antioxidant functions at low doses but exhibits neurotoxicity, especially dopaminergic toxicity, at high doses [23]. Fukushima also suggests that excessive nicotinamide is related to the development of PD [24]; excessive nicotinamide can induce overproduction of 1-methylnicotinamide (MNA), which is increased in patients with PD [25]. In an in vitro study, Griffin et al. found that low-dose nicotinamide (10mM) has a significant effect on inducing differentiation from embryonic stem cells into neu- rons; however, higher doses (>20mM) of nicotinamide induce cytotoxicity and cell death [26]. The definitive protecive dose of vitamin B3 still needs further researches.

 

[mostlylurking]

Vitamin B3. Nicotinamide is the active form of niacin, and it is the precursor of coenzymes NADH and NADPH, which are essential for over 200 enzymatic reactions in the organism, especially the production of adenosine triphos- phate (ATP). Meat, fish, and wheat are generally rich in nicotinamide, while vegetables have a low nicotinamide content [21]. Deficiency of nicotinamide/niacin can lead to pellagra, causing dermatitis, diarrhea, and depression [22]. Nicotin- amide has neuroprotective and antioxidant functions at low doses but exhibits neurotoxicity, especially dopaminergic toxicity, at high doses [23]. Fukushima also suggests that excessive nicotinamide is related to the development of PD [24]; excessive nicotinamide can induce overproduction of 1-methylnicotinamide (MNA), which is increased in patients with PD [25]. In an in vitro study, Griffin et al. found that low-dose nicotinamide (10mM) has a significant effect on inducing differentiation from embryonic stem cells into neu- rons; however, higher doses (>20mM) of nicotinamide induce cytotoxicity and cell death [26]. The definitive protecive dose of vitamin B3 still needs further researches.

Ray Peat has said that a dose of 90mg of niacinamide is considered a safe dose. Since it is a water soluble vitamin it only stays around for a couple of hours. I've experienced good improvement by taking 90mg of niacinamide 4Xday, including losing 30 lbs in the past 18 months. I cannot tolerate a high dose of niaminamide (500mg); it makes me loopy.

Ray Peat, PhD Quotes on Therapeutic Effects of Niacinamide – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

 

[xeliex]

Ray Peat has said that a dose of 90mg of niacinamide is considered a safe dose. Since it is a water soluble vitamin it only stays around for a couple of hours. I've experienced good improvement by taking 90mg of niacinamide 4Xday, including losing 30 lbs in the past 18 months. I cannot tolerate a high dose of niaminamide (500mg); it makes me loopy.

Ray Peat, PhD Quotes on Therapeutic Effects of Niacinamide – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

Mostlythiamine, I didn't know Ray said 90mg, that's good to know.

I've been taking Energin throughout the day, 5 drops about 4 times. But that is way lower than 90mg - it's about 20mg per serving and 80-100mg daily total.

I do feel generally better when I do that but considering doubling it up.

Do you happen to know whether taking B vitamins as a complex per se hinders the individual B vitamin's function? I know it might vary by what B-vitamin we are talking about.

 

[Jkbp]

Mostlythiamine, I didn't know Ray said 90mg, that's good to know.

I've been taking Energin throughout the day, 5 drops about 4 times. But that is way lower than 90mg - it's about 20mg per serving and 80-100mg daily total.

I do feel generally better when I do that but considering doubling it up.

Do you happen to know whether taking B vitamins as a complex per se hinders the individual B vitamin's function? I know it might vary by what B-vitamin we are talking about.

I am also curious if a B 100 complex will provide sufficient niacinamide.

 

[geusterman]

Ray Peat has said that a dose of 90mg of niacinamide is considered a safe dose. Since it is a water soluble vitamin it only stays around for a couple of hours. I've experienced good improvement by taking 90mg of niacinamide 4Xday, including losing 30 lbs in the past 18 months. I cannot tolerate a high dose of niaminamide (500mg); it makes me loopy.

Ray Peat, PhD Quotes on Therapeutic Effects of Niacinamide – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

Dr. Jonathan Wright at Tahoma Clinic recommends 3000 mg a day to get rid of your osteoarthritis. The most positive effect on my knee osteoarthritis has come from getting my iodine up. Additionally, I use 2000 mg of B3/day plus MSM.

 

[mostlylurking]

Do you happen to know whether taking B vitamins as a complex per se hinders the individual B vitamin's function? I know it might vary by what B-vitamin we are talking about.

I don't believe it hinders the individual B vintamins' function but I've found, at least for me, that taking a b-complex (in addition to taking my high dose thiamine) is tricky because I don't like what B5 does to me and it seems that they always put in too much B-6. So I just take b vitamins individually. This way I can take some of them once a day (biotin) and some of them multiple times a day (riboflavin, niacinamide) and keep my b-6 dose low.

I am also curious if a B 100 complex will provide sufficient niacinamide.

I like taking niacinamide 4Xday; I haven't found a b complex that would allow me to do that without overdoing b-6 and b-5.

 

[Jkbp]

I don't believe it hinders the individual B vintamins' function but I've found, at least for me, that taking a b-complex (in addition to taking my high dose thiamine) is tricky because I don't like what B5 does to me and it seems that they always put in too much B-6. So I just take b vitamins individually. This way I can take some of them once a day (biotin) and some of them multiple times a day (riboflavin, niacinamide) and keep my b-6 dose low.

I like taking niacinamide 4Xday; I haven't found a b complex that would allow me to do that without overdoing b-6 and b-5.

What dose do you take of niacinamide, 4 times a day?

 

[xeliex]

I don't believe it hinders the individual B vintamins' function but I've found, at least for me, that taking a b-complex (in addition to taking my high dose thiamine) is tricky because I don't like what B5 does to me and it seems that they always put in too much B-6. So I just take b vitamins individually. This way I can take some of them once a day (biotin) and some of them multiple times a day (riboflavin, niacinamide) and keep my b-6 dose low.

I like taking niacinamide 4Xday; I haven't found a b complex that would allow me to do that without overdoing b-6 and b-5.

Even in P5P it's a concern for you?
Energin by idealabs has no B12 I believe and b6 is as p5p. What do you think of it?

 

[xeliex]

That's the updated one I think

 

[mostlylurking]

What dose do you take of niacinamide, 4 times a day?

90mg.

 

[mostlylurking]

Even in P5P it's a concern for you?
Energin by idealabs has no B12 I believe and b6 is as p5p. What do you think?

If I had to rely on this product to fulfill my thiamine hcl needs I would be taking a dangerous amount of P5P. I'd rather supplement the vitamins individually. Is this a transdermal product? or do you swallow it?

There's an interview of Ray Peat in which he says you can O.D. on P5P more easily than on regular b6. I can't seem to find that video now (search engine via this link) but I did find this discussion:

View: https://youtu.be/VgZ0NWITuXc?t=2834

 

[Inaut]

I’ve been emptying small amounts of niacinamide into my beverage. Probably about 50 mg at a time. It’s very effective for stable mood and can be done at any time basically. Just carry a 500mg capsule and open as needed

 

[mostlylurking]

Dr. Jonathan Wright at Tahoma Clinic recommends 3000 mg a day to get rid of your osteoarthritis. The most positive effect on my knee osteoarthritis has come from getting my iodine up. Additionally, I use 2000 mg of B3/day plus MSM.

I think it is important to test different amounts on yourself to find what works for you and what might cause negative effects. I'm dealing with heavy metal poisoning; I've found that high dose thiamine hcl has been enormously helpful. I take 2 grams/day, a dose that Ray Peat would have considered outrageously high but it's what Dr. Costantini successfully used for his Parkinson's Disease patients and it works for me with no negative side effects.

In 2014, I was stricken with rheumatoid arthritis which crippled me and I was staring at the probability of having to go into assisted living. Happily, doubling my thyroid medication and changing the brand of prescription desiccated thyroid completely solved the rheumatoid arthritis and my thumb joints recovered. Ray Peat has an article about arthritis and thyroid here.

 

[exile]

I've been taking Energin throughout the day, 5 drops about 4 times. But that is way lower than 90mg - it's about 20mg per serving and 80-100mg daily total.

This is the same dose/way I take energin. If I need more thiamine or niacinamide, I just have some powder that I’ll take.

 

[foodandtheworld]

@mostlylurking would you mind sharing which niacinamide you use that has 90mg doses? I was looking at some brands but all the capsules were high doses, like 500mg.

 

[xeliex]

Thank you all for chiming in.
Mostlythiamine, I take extra thiamine separately, but use it for the niacinamide and other Bs. Thanka for the Dr. Peat video. Yes, I take it orally like Exile.

 

[mostlylurking]

@mostlylurking would you mind sharing which niacinamide you use that has 90mg doses? I was looking at some brands but all the capsules were high doses, like 500mg.

I'm using a bulk powder niacinamide. It's available from bulksupplements.com and also purebulk.com. I use a little scale to measure out the dose, then I choose a little measuring spoon that holds that amount to make it easier to make up the daily dose.

 

[foodandtheworld]

I'm using a bulk powder niacinamide. It's available from bulksupplements.com and also purebulk.com. I use a little scale to measure out the dose, then I choose a little measuring spoon that holds that amount to make it easier to make up the daily dose.

Thanks!

Also just came across this study - it's about a specific use for B3, so not necessarily an amount one would use everyday:

Oral nicotinamide protects against ultraviolet radiation-induced immunosuppression in humans​

Oral nicotinamide protects against ultraviolet radiation-induced immunosuppression in humans - PubMed

Cutaneous immunity, which is a key defence against the development of skin cancers, is suppressed by even small doses of ultraviolet (UV) radiation. Preventing this UV-induced immunosuppression may therefore reduce the incidence of skin cancer. Nicotinamide (vitamin B3) has immune-protective and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Oral nicotinamide, at doses of either 1500 or 500 mg daily, was well tolerated and significantly reduced UV immunosuppression with no immune effects in unirradiated skin.

 

[mostlylurking]

Thanks!

Also just came across this study - it's about a specific use for B3, so not necessarily an amount one would use everyday:

Oral nicotinamide protects against ultraviolet radiation-induced immunosuppression in humans​

Oral nicotinamide protects against ultraviolet radiation-induced immunosuppression in humans - PubMed

Cutaneous immunity, which is a key defence against the development of skin cancers, is suppressed by even small doses of ultraviolet (UV) radiation. Preventing this UV-induced immunosuppression may therefore reduce the incidence of skin cancer. Nicotinamide (vitamin B3) has immune-protective and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Oral nicotinamide, at doses of either 1500 or 500 mg daily, was well tolerated and significantly reduced UV immunosuppression with no immune effects in unirradiated skin.

You're welcome. For me, anything over 500mg makes me loopy. Maybe other people tolerate it better, I don't know. Here's a collection of Ray Peat quotes on niacinamide:

Ray Peat, PhD Quotes on Therapeutic Effects of Niacinamide – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

 

[NOBRU]

Ray Peat has said that a dose of 90mg of niacinamide is considered a safe dose. Since it is a water soluble vitamin it only stays around for a couple of hours. I've experienced good improvement by taking 90mg of niacinamide 4Xday, including losing 30 lbs in the past 18 months. I cannot tolerate a high dose of niaminamide (500mg); it makes me loopy.

Ray Peat, PhD Quotes on Therapeutic Effects of Niacinamide – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

thank for your answer