Why Does Finasteride Work For Some People?

[Deleted member 5487]

i am confused .

what is good facial development?

what examples are there in hollywood or TV actors?

I'm just telling you what I

That's an interesting angle to look at this from. Coincidently, I am currently working with an orthodontist to have an appliance made that will expand my upper pallet. I've been really focused on proper tongue posture and breathing as part of the treatment plan. I've struggled with chronic sinusitis for most of my life and it has been a big obstacle in me achieving optimal health.

I'm like a broken record about it but you should check out the book Breath by James Nestor. It goes along with you're saying here.

It’s a different theory. But essentially the long term low chronic “compression” of the galea slowly bales you. The DHT actually might be the follicle killer, but it’s build up is either because it’s trapped, or being produced to send a growth signal and not being intercepted.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Yes it’s not perfect but there is somthing to it. Once you start looking at real life examples of males you will quickly find a pattern

 

[Ableton]

Yes it’s not perfect but there is somthing to it. Once you start looking at real life examples of males you will quickly find a pattern

Baldness exposes poor craniofacial development, hair hides it. This combined with the fact I can find white grandpas with very narrow jaw and nw1 tells me everything I need to know. Not saying it’s completely irrelevant, but definitely not a main cause imo, maybe a contributing factor.
Also, the problem with mewing is that if you are able to breath while correctly mewing, your palate is already above average. In other words it doesn’t work for recessed maxillacels, because their tongue will block their airway.

 

[JDreamer]

How does cryofacial issues/development explain hair regrowth via finasteride or transitioning to female?

 

[Kenny]

How does cryofacial issues/development explain hair regrowth via finasteride or transitioning to female?

the craniofascial theory is completely unproven, and frankly is largely irrelevant even if it were proven. Its not like we can recode ourselves to develop differently shaped skulls.

 

[MichaelZurich]

When I quit Fin cold turkey (foolish given I was on it for 8 years), I had 2 stress-induced hair sheds in the ensuing few years, but it's been 8 years since I was on it and I still have a full head of hair. Might be luck, might be 'genes', or it might be that I discovered Ray Peat about 5 years ago and drastically changed my diet and lifestyle.

Funny thing is, now that I'm older, the thought of losing my hair doesn't bother me so much. However I know when you're in your 20s in particular, it can be a bleak thought.

Hey, can I ask you what you changed exactly?

 

[Ableton]

Hey, can I ask you what you changed exactly?

he changed his hormonal profile or something else in his body (no one really knows whats going on) with finasteride for years even after quitting it. happened to me as well. like I said: 3 months of fin resulted in 7 years of first regrowing some, then keeping hair. And I was agressively balding at the age of 19 and the huge fin sides went away after quitting it (although I know there was probably stuff going on inside me that I was not aware of, otherwise I wouldn't have kept my hair)

I wonder how many people did the same but give hair advice because they thinks its their diets or whatever that makes them keep their hair after quitting fin, lol. I would reckon the number to be quite high, and I am not even one to believe that diet has zero impact. not doing this involves the capacity to understand and admit to yourself that you have at least changed your body through a drug for years, maybe even permanently, which is quite something to come to terms with. It has definitely taken me some time to even understand that, yet alone admit it to myself (after giving lifestyle advice and feedback on forums myself lol). We would all like to believe that quitting fin means we get into a pre-fin state immediately or in a matter of weeks, and it even felt like that to me (still got boners, no gyno and so on), but I simply doubt its the case if you are suddenly keeping your hair. At that age, I was just starting to go about my life normally again, not knowing about Peat. Fapping, PUFA, Alcohol, you name it. Stuff young, naive adults do. And I still kept my hair suddenly. Weird, isn't it?

Fin was definitely worth it for me, but it's russian roulette. Your life is at stake the moment you swallow it the first time.

You can not take alternative hair treatment advice seriously from anyone who has even swallowed one tablet of fin or dut, being my point. It's much more likely the past fin usage (a drug proven to regrow hair and having the ability to change your body past usage) lets them keep their hair, than any dietary change.

And trust me, many people who post on forums like this, have swallowed the pill at some point. Heck, half of us found out about Peat through Roddy because we are losing hair.

 

[MichaelZurich]

he changed his hormonal profile or something else in his body (no one really knows whats going on) with finasteride for years even after quitting it. happened to me as well. like I said: 3 months of fin resulted in 7 years of first regrowing some, then keeping hair. And I was agressively balding at the age of 19 and the huge fin sides went away after quitting it (although I know there was probably stuff going on inside me that I was not aware of, otherwise I wouldn't have kept my hair)

I wonder how many people did the same but give hair advice because they thinks its their diets or whatever that makes them keep their hair after quitting fin, lol. I would reckon the number to be quite high, and I am not even one to believe that diet has zero impact. not doing this involves the capacity to understand and admit to yourself that you have at least changed your body through a drug for years, maybe even permanently, which is quite something to come to terms with. It has definitely taken me some time to even understand that, yet alone admit it to myself (after giving lifestyle advice and feedback on forums myself lol). We would all like to believe that quitting fin means we get into a pre-fin state immediately or in a matter of weeks, and it even felt like that to me (still got boners, no gyno and so on), but I simply doubt its the case if you are suddenly keeping your hair. At that age, I was just starting to go about my life normally again, not knowing about Peat. Fapping, PUFA, Alcohol, you name it. Stuff young, naive adults do. And I still kept my hair suddenly. Weird, isn't it?

Fin was definitely worth it for me, but it's russian roulette. Your life is at stake the moment you swallow it the first time.

You can not take alternative hair treatment advice seriously from anyone who has even swallowed one tablet of fin or dut, being my point. It's much more likely the past fin usage (a drug proven to regrow hair and having the ability to change your body past usage) lets them keep their hair, than any dietary change.

And trust me, many people who post on forums like this, have swallowed the pill at some point. Heck, half of us found out about Peat through Roddy because we are losing hair.

Hi Ableton, i think you misunderstood me, i am actually a hard sufferer of PFS and i wanted to know what @Jem Oz meant by „drastically changed my diet and lifestyle.“ Since i want to optimise everything i can...

Kind Regards

Michael

 

[rei]

It's chemical castration. This shifts hormonal balance towards more female pattern. Why do women have less balding? Because androgens are what stiffens up and maintains fascial tension, DHT being the ultimate on-site toughener. It increases hair growth and makes it more coarse and thicker. Only once the tightness causes reduced circulation and inability to maintian function, does the follicles start minituatizing in response.

DHT is a marker of fascial tension in the connective tissue, skin, joints. Not the cause for baldness.

A high content of DHT in prostate means it is getting squeezed and pulled by fascia and uses it to maintain function. If DHT production decreases the stress results in cancer. DHT cures prostate cancer.

DHT makes you fight stress, progesterone makes you adapt to stress and estrogen makes you embrace stress. What's amazing is that this applies both on a physiological and psychological level.

 

[Ableton]

A high content of DHT in prostate means it is getting squeezed and pulled by fascia and uses it to maintain function. If DHT production decreases the stress results in cancer. DHT cures prostate cancer.

DHT makes you fight stress, progesterone makes you adapt to stress and estrogen makes you embrace stress. What's amazing is that this applies both on a physiological and psychological level.

amazing insight, your last paragraph. Probably the wisest words I have heard some1 talk on this topic. You articulated something very well that I had in mind for a while but couldn’t quite puzzle together.

i‘d consider myself a high dht individual, eye test wise and fascia wise at least. The thing is, depending on stress level, I sometimes feel this squeezy sort of pressure in my prostate when I have a lot of orgasms in a short period of time. I suspect this is not normal? This would also explain why many men report higher shedding on madturbation vs nofap

does this mean cancer might be coming, it’s just that my dht production is high enough as of now to fight it off? Do I understand you correctly? Maybe I shouldvorder some progesterone lol
At what age should I start being worried about my dht production getting too low?

 

[outcast1979]

You will regret it man,not worth to sacrifice a lot of thing for your hair.

 

[rei]

amazing insight, your last paragraph. Probably the wisest words I have heard some1 talk on this topic. You articulated something very well that I had in mind for a while but couldn’t quite puzzle together.

i‘d consider myself a high dht individual, eye test wise and fascia wise at least. The thing is, depending on stress level, I sometimes feel this squeezy sort of pressure in my prostate when I have a lot of orgasms in a short period of time. I suspect this is not normal? This would also explain why many men report higher shedding on madturbation vs nofap

does this mean cancer might be coming, it’s just that my dht production is high enough as of now to fight it off? Do I understand you correctly? Maybe I shouldvorder some progesterone lol
At what age should I start being worried about my dht production getting too low?

I'm flattered by your kind words. I'm online to learn new things and hope i can distil it down to approachable novel concepts i can share back once i have a holistic picture or arrive at some realization.

Cancer comes when an organ is for a long time unable to cope with the demands placed on it. Metabolic factors are as important as physical factors like direct mechanical tension. Orgasms are transient stress. Chronic fascial tension is the issue, orgasm pain just underlines the issue.

 

[hominidnumber9]

You can not take alternative hair treatment advice seriously from anyone who has even swallowed one tablet of fin or dut, being my point. It's much more likely the past fin usage (a drug proven to regrow hair and having the ability to change your body past usage) lets them keep their hair, than any dietary change.

That's a bold assertion.

 

[Kenny]

That's a bold assertion.

its a pretty frequent phenomenon in users who quit fin - generally due to persistent sides or whatnot - see their hair loss rate slowed permanently

 

[Ableton]

its a pretty frequent phenomenon in users who quit fin - generally due to persistent sides or whatnot - see their hair loss rate slowed permanently

true. The thing is, I couldn’t even pinpoint sides after quitting. Sure, orgasms probably a bit weaker at 25 comparred to 19. maybe thats fin. Maybe not. I am definitely happy with my boners, physique etc. Maybe my brain would be sharper if I never used it. Who the **** knows.
I am wondering if quitting it resulted in some sort of androgen receptor upregulation down the line. I look way more androgenic than before baseline. And I think I read somewhere that quitting fin can have this effect.
The thing is that the people claiming diet and environment makes or breaks hair are the same ones claiming that fin can physiologically alter your body beyond usage, which is correct.
Yet, somehow it’s never considered if a person having success (due to diet of course) popped fin or dut at some point in their life. We are in a vain health forum section. So you do the math how many users used it.
I think there is a thread somewhere here on PFS with 400 pages, and we are not even on a hair forum lol

 

[johnwester130]

Hi all,

I don't post here often but I lurk a few times a year to see where everything is at with the latest hair-loss theories and treatments. Recently I have been pondering Finasteride and why it seems to work very well for some people. Does anyone know of a theory that would explain this?

From what I've been able to gather the prevailing thought behind the Peat/Roddy "alternate" explanation for hair-loss is that reduced thyroid function kicks of a negative compensatory hormone cascade that eventually results in increased hair-loss. I keep coming back to DHT though.

Recently, I've been watching a lot of YouTube channels that defend Finasteride quite vehemently and it has caused me to consider it as an option. I think it's literally the only hair-loss cure that I haven't at-least tried. Finasteride is so easy to get online now that I've been thinking about giving it a shot. My hair-line has hung in there pretty good over the years but I still have diffuse thinning up-top over most of my head. If Finasteride is truly poison, why does it work so well for some people and why do many continue to defend it?

Let's discuss!
Also, if there's a thread about this already that I missed please post a link.

(I'm including this vid for reference)
The Misunderstood Role of DHT in Male Pattern Baldness



Thanks,
H9

it actually blocks 11 hormones

The following reactions are known to be catalyzed by 5α-reductase:[9]

• Cholestenone → 5α-Cholestanone
• Progesterone → 5α-Dihydroprogesterone
• 3α-Dihydroprogesterone → Allopregnanolone
• 3β-Dihydroprogesterone → Isopregnanolone
• Deoxycorticosterone → 5α-Dihydrodeoxycorticosterone
• Corticosterone → 5α-Dihydrocorticosterone
• Cortisol → 5α-Dihydrocortisol
• Aldosterone → 5α-Dihydroaldosterone
• Androstenedione → 5α-Androstanedione
• Testosterone → 5α-Dihydrotestosterone
• Nandrolone → 5α-Dihydronandrolone

maybe another hormone is involved in balding?

 

[MitchMitchell]

I think the most interesting angle to hair loss is hypogonadism where (as a solution to low testicular function) adrenals pump out more dhea which is strongly converted into DHT, as opposed to regular gonadal “youthful” function. DHT somewhat saves the day in terms of androgenic feels.

It all starts with hypothyroidism caused by adrenals, less free T3 more reverse T3, TSH goes up, meanwhile there’s a degree of loss of antioxidants with aging. That’s why I don’t like supplementing T3, seems to be a band aid at best.

- Once finasteride is introduced, I think patients who had a degree of hypogonadism are now left with their poor testicular function combined with the absence of Dhea > T > DHT conversion. Dhea is a weak androgen, T isn’t exactly potent either. Seems to be good enough for most people, or perhaps most people have such a bad normal that they don’t know they’re screwed. Most people I know have awful libidos and sex lives yet think they’re fine.

- Once finasteride is dropped, I guess patients go back to their mild hypogonadism + adrenals life. IF finasteride worked for a few months and improved hair density and thickness, it would make sense that people don’t have it as bad as pre treatment as the hair thinning would resume from a higher / better starting point. Who knows.

- If hair loss is primarily an adrenal issue, and patients have a degree of mild hypogonadism balanced out by adrenals then HCG should be a great tool. We know it solves PFS. Anecdotally I’ve had better hair regrowth after shaving my head and running HCG for a few months last summer, compared to shaving it this year and not using HCG. Still growing fine for a 32yo. But idk it seemed better back then, and erections were top notch. It’s just that I loathe pinning, ha. Especially 3 days a week. Idk I may as well stick to it for good.

HCG being extremely cheap therefore not profitable I have no idea if there’s any data supporting my hypothesis and experience, because who would fund such a study VS just popping Fin/Dut.

 

[GorillaHead]

I think the most interesting angle to hair loss is hypogonadism where (as a solution to low testicular function) adrenals pump out more dhea which is strongly converted into DHT, as opposed to regular gonadal “youthful” function. DHT somewhat saves the day in terms of androgenic feels.

It all starts with hypothyroidism caused by adrenals, less free T3 more reverse T3, TSH goes up, meanwhile there’s a degree of loss of antioxidants with aging. That’s why I don’t like supplementing T3, seems to be a band aid at best.

- Once finasteride is introduced, I think patients who had a degree of hypogonadism are now left with their poor testicular function combined with the absence of Dhea > T > DHT conversion. Dhea is a weak androgen, T isn’t exactly potent either. Seems to be good enough for most people, or perhaps most people have such a bad normal that they don’t know they’re screwed. Most people I know have awful libidos and sex lives yet think they’re fine.

- Once finasteride is dropped, I guess patients go back to their mild hypogonadism + adrenals life. IF finasteride worked for a few months and improved hair density and thickness, it would make sense that people don’t have it as bad as pre treatment as the hair thinning would resume from a higher / better starting point. Who knows.

- If hair loss is primarily an adrenal issue, and patients have a degree of mild hypogonadism balanced out by adrenals then HCG should be a great tool. We know it solves PFS. Anecdotally I’ve had better hair regrowth after shaving my head and running HCG for a few months last summer, compared to shaving it this year and not using HCG. Still growing fine for a 32yo. But idk it seemed better back then, and erections were top notch. It’s just that I loathe pinning, ha. Especially 3 days a week. Idk I may as well stick to it for good.

HCG being extremely cheap therefore not profitable I have no idea if there’s any data supporting my hypothesis and experience, because who would fund such a study VS just popping Fin/Dut.

Ive thought about this myself. As u get older gonads get worse performance. Adrenaline compensates and boom hairloss. Doesnt explain castrates tho

 

[MitchMitchell]

Wouldn’t castrates have the SHBG status of a child? Same goes with MtF. They get a boatload of ethynilestradiol and spironolactone typically, there won’t be any free androgen left... would that explain higher rates of mental disease amongst them by the way?

 

[Ableton]

I think the most interesting angle to hair loss is hypogonadism where (as a solution to low testicular function) adrenals pump out more dhea which is strongly converted into DHT, as opposed to regular gonadal “youthful” function. DHT somewhat saves the day in terms of androgenic feels.

It all starts with hypothyroidism caused by adrenals, less free T3 more reverse T3, TSH goes up, meanwhile there’s a degree of loss of antioxidants with aging. That’s why I don’t like supplementing T3, seems to be a band aid at best.

- Once finasteride is introduced, I think patients who had a degree of hypogonadism are now left with their poor testicular function combined with the absence of Dhea > T > DHT conversion. Dhea is a weak androgen, T isn’t exactly potent either. Seems to be good enough for most people, or perhaps most people have such a bad normal that they don’t know they’re screwed. Most people I know have awful libidos and sex lives yet think they’re fine.

- Once finasteride is dropped, I guess patients go back to their mild hypogonadism + adrenals life. IF finasteride worked for a few months and improved hair density and thickness, it would make sense that people don’t have it as bad as pre treatment as the hair thinning would resume from a higher / better starting point. Who knows.

- If hair loss is primarily an adrenal issue, and patients have a degree of mild hypogonadism balanced out by adrenals then HCG should be a great tool. We know it solves PFS. Anecdotally I’ve had better hair regrowth after shaving my head and running HCG for a few months last summer, compared to shaving it this year and not using HCG. Still growing fine for a 32yo. But idk it seemed better back then, and erections were top notch. It’s just that I loathe pinning, ha. Especially 3 days a week. Idk I may as well stick to it for good.

HCG being extremely cheap therefore not profitable I have no idea if there’s any data supporting my hypothesis and experience, because who would fund such a study VS just popping Fin/Dut.

i think you are right, however I think the whole cascade can also start in young people not yet hypothyroid who undereat and thus chronically spike their adrenaline
The hypothyroidism accompanies the whole thing years later
That would basically be my story
I think as an 18yr old it’s entirely possible to have hypogonadism and good thyroid function still. Results in great masculine, lean faces with the dhea. Lean, increasingly stiff bodies.
Stunted growth relative to own potential if running on adrenaline started before reaching it