Kelj
Member
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2019
- Messages
- 299
I have given my experience here of incorporating many Ray Peat suggestions and generally eating enough calories. I gained weight, went through some bad symptoms, but persisted because I believed the science said those consequences were normal. I expected them. I believed the science pointed to recovery on the other end. I am now completely well and normal weight. It took about a year to eighteen months, depending on what weight I consider normal.
From the Eating Disorder Institute, I recently found this very good explanation of why the weight gain is a good thing:
Symptom Questions — The Eating Disorder Institute
"Although we cannot predict which patient will or will not temporarily overshoot his or her optimal weight set point during a recovery process from an eating disorder, we do seem to have some scientific evidence that an overshoot is necessary so that the body might eventually return to its optimal fat mass to fat-free mass ratio."
(The idea of "optimal fat mass to fat-free mass ratio" is an important one in the references to studies that follow in this Eating Disorder Institute article. Fat is not just a storage unit. It is an organ.)
"Abdul Dulloo and his colleagues carefully assessed the comprehensive data from the Minnesota Starvation Experiment [AG Dulloo et al., 1990, 1996, 1997 and 1998], and found that in re-feeding the body preferentially restores fat relative to lean tissue, contributed by reduced thermogenesis, to support further adipose organ restoration; that there appear to be distinct signalling mechanisms in re-feeding from both fat mass and fat-free mass to trigger hyperphagia (extreme eating); and that we can surmise from these findings that the return to an optimal fat mass to fat-free mass ratio will be curtailed should a patient fail to refeed fully and allow for a possible temporary overshoot in weight to occur."
(Notice: to regain the normal, optimal "fat mass to fat-free mass", the subjects of this famous study had to allow themselves the extreme eating behavior and extra weight gain. They later returned to their normal weight. If they had allowed the disdain of those who like to call the mouths of those who eat enough calories "gobs" or "pie holes" to dissuade them from refeeding fully, they would not have attained such a happy outcome.)
"Because a recovered state from self-imposed starvation in clinical trials often refers merely to a return to BMI 18.5 (rather than a cessation of all weight gain and weight stabilization as a result of unrestricted eating), we see a large body of literature that indicates many 'recovered' patients that fit the clinical criterion of BMI 18.5 have disproportionately high levels of visceral fat compared to lean (fat-free) mass [L Scalfi et al., 2002; M Helba et al., 2009; J Hebebrand et al., 2007; MT García de Álvaro et al., 2007]."
(Notice: When subjects weight restore to an intellect-imposed number instead of letting their bodies reach their full restoration, the result is still an abnormal amount of fat. They are TOFI. The goal is to be able to eat as many calories as you want without ever gaining excess weight in the future.)
"If you just restore to a specific weight either by half-restricting throughout the recovery process or as soon as you reach a "target weight", then you set yourself up for disproportionate layers of visceral fat. That is known to correlate with negative health implications for you over your lifetime. [MI Goran et al., 1999; T Cascella et al., 2002; JL Kuk et al., 2006]
Conversely, in the very few trials where recovery was identified with both extended inpatient and outpatient review and a criterion of "achieved maximum weight gain", then patients achieved average fat mass to fat-free mass ratios and returned to average gynoid (female) shape [CI Orphanidou et al., 1997]."
("Achieved maximum weight gain" means these subjects ate until their bodies naturally stopped gaining weight. These subjects were able to return to a normal fat mass to fat-free mass and normal shape.)
"Here's the deal: No one can predict your final optimal weight set point. It's unwise to assume anything about the process of recovery. While overshooting your optimal weight set point may occur, it may not. And it's probably even unwise to hope that, if you don't like the weight at which your body decides to settle in after several months of dedicated rest and re-feeding, you can simply await tapering to a weight you find acceptable, because that can simply keep you locked into eating disorder focus on your weight defining your very existence."
(I call doing it this way success and freedom.)
From the Eating Disorder Institute, I recently found this very good explanation of why the weight gain is a good thing:
Symptom Questions — The Eating Disorder Institute
"Although we cannot predict which patient will or will not temporarily overshoot his or her optimal weight set point during a recovery process from an eating disorder, we do seem to have some scientific evidence that an overshoot is necessary so that the body might eventually return to its optimal fat mass to fat-free mass ratio."
(The idea of "optimal fat mass to fat-free mass ratio" is an important one in the references to studies that follow in this Eating Disorder Institute article. Fat is not just a storage unit. It is an organ.)
"Abdul Dulloo and his colleagues carefully assessed the comprehensive data from the Minnesota Starvation Experiment [AG Dulloo et al., 1990, 1996, 1997 and 1998], and found that in re-feeding the body preferentially restores fat relative to lean tissue, contributed by reduced thermogenesis, to support further adipose organ restoration; that there appear to be distinct signalling mechanisms in re-feeding from both fat mass and fat-free mass to trigger hyperphagia (extreme eating); and that we can surmise from these findings that the return to an optimal fat mass to fat-free mass ratio will be curtailed should a patient fail to refeed fully and allow for a possible temporary overshoot in weight to occur."
(Notice: to regain the normal, optimal "fat mass to fat-free mass", the subjects of this famous study had to allow themselves the extreme eating behavior and extra weight gain. They later returned to their normal weight. If they had allowed the disdain of those who like to call the mouths of those who eat enough calories "gobs" or "pie holes" to dissuade them from refeeding fully, they would not have attained such a happy outcome.)
"Because a recovered state from self-imposed starvation in clinical trials often refers merely to a return to BMI 18.5 (rather than a cessation of all weight gain and weight stabilization as a result of unrestricted eating), we see a large body of literature that indicates many 'recovered' patients that fit the clinical criterion of BMI 18.5 have disproportionately high levels of visceral fat compared to lean (fat-free) mass [L Scalfi et al., 2002; M Helba et al., 2009; J Hebebrand et al., 2007; MT García de Álvaro et al., 2007]."
(Notice: When subjects weight restore to an intellect-imposed number instead of letting their bodies reach their full restoration, the result is still an abnormal amount of fat. They are TOFI. The goal is to be able to eat as many calories as you want without ever gaining excess weight in the future.)
"If you just restore to a specific weight either by half-restricting throughout the recovery process or as soon as you reach a "target weight", then you set yourself up for disproportionate layers of visceral fat. That is known to correlate with negative health implications for you over your lifetime. [MI Goran et al., 1999; T Cascella et al., 2002; JL Kuk et al., 2006]
Conversely, in the very few trials where recovery was identified with both extended inpatient and outpatient review and a criterion of "achieved maximum weight gain", then patients achieved average fat mass to fat-free mass ratios and returned to average gynoid (female) shape [CI Orphanidou et al., 1997]."
("Achieved maximum weight gain" means these subjects ate until their bodies naturally stopped gaining weight. These subjects were able to return to a normal fat mass to fat-free mass and normal shape.)
"Here's the deal: No one can predict your final optimal weight set point. It's unwise to assume anything about the process of recovery. While overshooting your optimal weight set point may occur, it may not. And it's probably even unwise to hope that, if you don't like the weight at which your body decides to settle in after several months of dedicated rest and re-feeding, you can simply await tapering to a weight you find acceptable, because that can simply keep you locked into eating disorder focus on your weight defining your very existence."
(I call doing it this way success and freedom.)