Would You Vaccinate Your Child?

[j.]

When I asked RP about vaccines he simply replied with the infamous Simpsonwood memo.

Is it this? Can anyone who read it make a summary?

It is summarized in my post above.

Thanks!

 

[j.]

We probably won't know the exact truth about vaccines until many decades after the abolition of the FDA.

 

[nwo2012]

We probably won't know the exact truth about vaccines until many decades after the abolition of the FDA.

You mean it wont become common knowledge. We already know the truth.

 

[kiran]

We probably won't know the exact truth about vaccines until many decades after the abolition of the FDA.

You mean it wont become common knowledge. We already know the truth.

I doubt the government will ever actually officially admit to such a thing. Too much downside.

 

[kettlebell]

Hasn't Thimerosal been removed from most vaccines now though?

 

[gabriel79]

Last time I checked I couldn´t find any a vaccine that used thimerosal or other mercury based preserver. I don´t know what´s the status in the US or UK

 

[charlie]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-UMosoLRU4[/youtube]

 

[Kelly]

I think it's unfair to label anyone who isn't anti-vaccine as a non free thinker. I think there are risks to getting vaccines just as there are risks to not getting them. I think we're all fortunate to live in a time where sanitation has greatly reduced many of these diseases.

 

[nwo2012]

Last time I checked I couldn´t find any a vaccine that used thimerosal or other mercury based preserver. I don´t know what´s the status in the US or UK

Can be present in small amounts and not listed. Thimerosal is by far not the only harmful component of vaccines regardless.

 

[nwo2012]

I think it's unfair to label anyone who isn't anti-vaccine as a non free thinker. I think there are risks to getting vaccines just as there are risks to not getting them. I think we're all fortunate to live in a time where sanitation has greatly reduced many of these diseases.

Arguable. So what are the risks to not getting them? Catching diseases that are so obsolete you can't catch them? Or catching diseases, that when there are outbreaks of them, the majority by far (80%+) of those 'infected' are in fact already vaccinated against? I fail to see where these fairy tale benefits are actually meant to occur from. What I do see us injecting a cocktail poisons into a baby is completely nuts. It is easy to call anyone that can trust governments and Big Pharma when they have been caught lying over and over with vaccines, close minded. Very easy.
My :2cents

 

[Kelly]

I think it's unfair to label anyone who isn't anti-vaccine as a non free thinker. I think there are risks to getting vaccines just as there are risks to not getting them. I think we're all fortunate to live in a time where sanitation has greatly reduced many of these diseases.

Arguable. So what are the risks to not getting them? Catching diseases that are so obsolete you can't catch them? Or catching diseases, that when there are outbreaks of them, the majority by far (80%+) of those 'infected' are in fact already vaccinated against? I fail to see where these fairy tale benefits are actually meant to occur from. What I do see us injecting a cocktail poisons into a baby is completely nuts. It is easy to call anyone that can trust governments and Big Pharma when they have been caught lying over and over with vaccines, close minded. Very easy.
My :2cents

A person who researches an issue is an open minded person, whether they came to the same conclusion as you or not.

Here is one study showing the effectiveness of the pneumonia vaccine:

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Pediatrics/Vaccines/35968

Here's a page that shows 2 in 1000 kids have to be hospitalized for chicken pox and 50 died per year before the vaccine:

http://www.chop.edu/service/parents-pos ... n-pox.html

Side note, I never had chicken pox as a kid, so I got the vaccination several years ago. I had to ask my doctor to be tested and then ask for the vaccine.

I do agree that it seems odd to vaccinate for diseases that are more or less obsolete. And I am a little suspicious that those diseases and usually part of a multi vaccine with diseases that are more prevalent. I also agree that not all vaccines may be effective, and don't think testing for antibodies necessarily proves they are effective. My conclusion was still that the disease was a bigger risk than the shot.

 

[nwo2012]

True. I can not trust any such data as you have posted when there has been ample evidence of data being massaged in the past.

And the lawsuit against Merck shows they will manipulate data to suit their needs.

I would take my chances against the diseases every time. And if we are leading the Peat way of life for our kids, I can guarantee they will have all the immunity they need. Healthy children do not contract and die of Pneumonia, it would be absurd to even suggest such a thing. Neither do healthy elderly people. And unhealthy ones are playing Russian roulette whether they are vaccinated or not. I still think you have to be crazy to see vaccines as beneficial and Im sticking to that.

But yes I guess you can be open minded so long as you are actually doing research on the topic, no matter which path you decide. But that means we have to consider those that refuse sugar or consume lots of fish oils as being open minded. See, that is extremely hard to do.

 

[nwo2012]

I think it's unfair to label anyone who isn't anti-vaccine as a non free thinker. I think there are risks to getting vaccines just as there are risks to not getting them. I think we're all fortunate to live in a time where sanitation has greatly reduced many of these diseases.

Arguable. So what are the risks to not getting them? Catching diseases that are so obsolete you can't catch them? Or catching diseases, that when there are outbreaks of them, the majority by far (80%+) of those 'infected' are in fact already vaccinated against? I fail to see where these fairy tale benefits are actually meant to occur from. What I do see us injecting a cocktail poisons into a baby is completely nuts. It is easy to call anyone that can trust governments and Big Pharma when they have been caught lying over and over with vaccines, close minded. Very easy.
My :2cents

A person who researches an issue is an open minded person, whether they came to the same conclusion as you or not.

Here is one study showing the effectiveness of the pneumonia vaccine:

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Pediatrics/Vaccines/35968

Here's a page that shows 2 in 1000 kids have to be hospitalized for chicken pox and 50 died per year before the vaccine:

http://www.chop.edu/service/parents-pos ... n-pox.html

Side note, I never had chicken pox as a kid, so I got the vaccination several years ago. I had to ask my doctor to be tested and then ask for the vaccine.

I do agree that it seems odd to vaccinate for diseases that are more or less obsolete. And I am a little suspicious that those diseases and usually part of a multi vaccine with diseases that are more prevalent. I also agree that not all vaccines may be effective, and don't think testing for antibodies necessarily proves they are effective. My conclusion was still that the disease was a bigger risk than the shot.

50 per year, if it was indeed the vaccine alone that amounted to the decrease? I would place the figure that die directly as a result of vaccines considerably higher, and those that die later in life (with the vaccines as a contributor) considerably higher still.
You took a toxic vaccine and will still be as susceptible to shingles as you were before. Where is the worth?

 

[nwo2012]

A great article here once again to demonstrate that the so-called benefits of vaccination are very overstated.

http://www.relfe.com/vaccine.html

or this
http://www.naturalhealth365.com/tag/chicken-pox

When you read through the hard data on the movement of measles and polio infections throughout the U.S. and the United Kingdom, it is impossible for vaccines to take the credit for the virtual elimination of these killer diseases. From 1915 to 1958, before the measles vaccine was introduced, the death rate from measles had already declined by 98 percent. (1) And between 1923 and 1953, the polio death rate had steadily dropped by 47 percent in the U.S. and by 55 percent in England before the polio vaccine was introduced. Many epidemiologists assert that the polio virus was already on its way out, that group immunity was being achieved, and that the incidence would have continued to decrease on its own, regardless of the introduction of the vaccine.
Data compiled by several sources in Australia including the Australian Bureau of Statistics confirms that the Australian population had already developed group immunity to measles, rubella, diphtheria, and whooping cough before the first vaccines were administered. In fact, in every instance, deaths had already plummeted by over 90 percent before the first vaccine was administered.

 

[Kelly]

I don't have much time to respond and probably wouldn't even if I did. You bring up good points, but nothing that I didn't already know. I'm not a fan of vaccines so would never try to convince anyone to get them. The book I recommended in my first response is a very even handed book.

 

[nwo2012]

I don't have much time to respond and probably wouldn't even if I did. You bring up good points, but nothing that I didn't already know. I'm not a fan of vaccines so would never try to convince anyone to get them. The book I recommended in my first response is a very even handed book.

All good, we have spent too much time on this topic already. That's agreed.

 

[loess]

Sorry this isn't a very useful thread bump, but I need to share this one with some like-minded folks.

I come from a family that is pretty heavily invested in the various myths of medical science (my father is an ENT specalist and his father was an optometrist, etc etc). My sister (who is a nurse) is having a baby in October, and my mom just sent me an e-mail:

We all need to get pertussis boosters before August. There has been an epidemic just announced in California.
Not optional. We need to protect this little baby girl.

Now I love my mom, and whatever the rest of my family wants to do in regards to vaccines is up to them, but like hell I'm going to let anybody force one upon me. Hopefully this won't turn into a big ugly thing...

 

[SQu]

Tough one. My rule of thumb when powerful scare tactics/guilt trips are applied is to refuse to be rushed, inform myself, and usually no damaging thing needs to be done. Or not so far, anyway, thank goodness. I've dodged much this way. But when it's about family, the pressure is vastly greater. Perhaps you could promise to be vigilant about keeping away if you feel even a hint of flu symptoms. That way proving you take responsibility and respect their concerns, and they can respect yours by trusting you.

 

[LucyL]

Ooh, "Not optional" would be a non-starter for me, but I'm stubborn like that. I think sueqs' advice is spot on. Even if all your relatives get the pertussis vaccine, that isn't a 100% guarantee they still won't get sick. I know (and I think most everybody does) people who came down with diseases they had been vaccinated for.

The risk I see in the attitude like your mom's is she could develop some sort of symptoms and since she's been vaccinated think she is fine and go cuddle the baby. It is a far better approach to excuse yourself from the gatherings while the baby is small if you feel any symptoms coming on, or if you think you've been exposed to something recently.

 

[4peatssake]

Sorry this isn't a very useful thread bump, but I need to share this one with some like-minded folks.

I come from a family that is pretty heavily invested in the various myths of medical science (my father is an ENT specalist and his father was an optometrist, etc etc). My sister (who is a nurse) is having a baby in October, and my mom just sent me an e-mail:

We all need to get pertussis boosters before August. There has been an epidemic just announced in California.
Not optional. We need to protect this little baby girl.

Now I love my mom, and whatever the rest of my family wants to do in regards to vaccines is up to them, but like hell I'm going to let anybody force one upon me. Hopefully this won't turn into a big ugly thing...

"Thanks for letting me know."

Yeah tough one, especially the "not optional" bit. I'd get a charge from that.

I think I would respond with something very neutral like "thanks for letting me know" and if more was needed, then add something like, "I'll take it under advisement and speak to my "doctor"." (not that I have one. )

Family dynamics are such that you probably know best how to best dodge this one.

Good luck!