peatarian
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Charlie said:
That's the cheapest Progest-E-Complex I have ever seen anywhere. Wish I could get it through European customs.
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Progesterone
- Thread starter narouz
- Start date
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- progesterone supplemental
That's the cheapest Progest-E-Complex I have ever seen anywhere. Wish I could get it through European customs.
Yeh, Ann told me she doesn't make hardly anything on it. She just wants to make sure people are able to get it. I was going to get her site posted on the supplement list for progest-e but I want to make sure its ok with her first and see if she will be able to handle the increase in orders.
MrMoose63 said:
We have read many times about sugar (sucrose) reducing stress by RP.
Danny Roddy
1 litre of distilled water. Add 20 teaspoons sucrose and 3 teaspons of salt. Doesnt need to be exact but I experimented and found that to be good for me. I just sip on that all day on top of all the meals (solid and liquid). This balances my diet and thyroid/pregnenolone supps, stops me from getting that jittery feeling at all in the day.
peatarian
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nwo2012 said:
When was the last time you tried? I have had trouble with German, Austrian, Spanish, French, British and Switz customs during the last 14 months. They seized vitamins and destroyed them because the dosage in one pill was too high. They seize books from the USA now, even when they are send in see through plastic with the receipt from Amazon attached.
peatarian
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Oh, you get them alright. You just have to go to the custom's office and let them check the invoice, your payment information and your address, allow them to open the parcel, check for something hidden between the pages -- and pay 20% taxes on the value (this includes shipping) and 50 cents for each day they 'stored' it for you.
peatarian said:
Peatarian, can you provide some references or quotes for this statement. I understand that progesterone can antagonize testosterone if either is too high, but I have never seen where it actually lowers it. It is all about the context and I think that progesterone can be extremely helpful for males and they should not be afraid of it.
Some interesting quotes...
"Some hormones which are both progestins and
anti-testosterones seem to work both at the tissue
"receptor" level. and at the pituitary level. Though
progesterone itself will suppress menopausal pituitary
gonadotrophins, and (my observations) reduces excessive
facial hair, it has not been found to have anti-testosterone
effects in men when used in low doses, and in appropriate
doses it can improve sexual functions in some impotent men
who are deficient in progesterone." (Progesterone in Orthomolecular Medicine)
"Progesterone and DHEA are the precursors for the
other more specialized steroid hormones, including cortisol,
aldosterone (sodium-retaining hormone), estrogen, and
testosterone. The formation of these other hormones is
tightly regulated, so that taking the precursor will correct a
deficiency of a specialized hormone, but will not create an
excess. At least in the case of progesterone, an excess tends
to balance or neutralize an excess of the specialized
hormone, so it has been described as having
anti-androgenic, anti-estrogen, anti-aldosterone, and
anti-cortisol functions." (Progesterone in Orthomolecular Medicine)
"He had consumed so much of the progesterone
that I repeatedly told him to be aware that
it could interfere with his sexual function
by blocking the effects of testoeterone. He
stayed alert and sober,and proceeded with
his performances. He took about 30 gram.
of progesterone in vitamin E over the next
several months, and said his sexual
functioning was perfectly normal." (Biological Balance and Additions - Townsend Letter)
"Progesterone is an anti androgen,
and blocks testosterone's effects. When
testosterone is given to newborn or very
young rats, it sets up a male pattern of
hormone development, but if
progesterone is given at the same time,
that doesn't happen. Progesterone
prevents the differentiation away from
the basic female path into the male
specialization. Later in life, a deficiency
of progesterone in a woman can again
lead to masculinization of some features,
such as musculature and facial or body
hair. When progesterone is given to men
in large doses, it blocks various typically
male processes, such as growth of
whiskers. In the brain, it has a
protective function in both sexes." (Aging Ovaries, not the Eggs - Townsend Letter)
GregW--
Not peatarian,
but I did see a solid quote from Peat
saying something like:
Men have to be able to adjust the dosage
if taking progesterone,
because if they don't it can effect their virility.
I'll see if I can find the source.
I may've even done that earlier in this thread
(or it might've been another thread here).
Not peatarian,
but I did see a solid quote from Peat
saying something like:
Men have to be able to adjust the dosage
if taking progesterone,
because if they don't it can effect their virility.
I'll see if I can find the source.
I may've even done that earlier in this thread
(or it might've been another thread here).
narouz said:
Thanks for the reply. Yes it could hurt your virility or it could be the missing factor that helps it. Every supplement and food has a range where could be beneficial and a break point where it turns harmful.
The man that RP wrote about took 30g over several months. If several = 3 months then the man was taking 100 drops of progest-e a day (1 bottle every 8 days) with no negative effects on sexual function.
It is a tool in the toolbox that men should not be afraid to try.
peatarian
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MartinBrown said:
I have been living in different EU countries and go to Switzerland regularly. I have friends in most countries who would be willing to let me use their address and forward any shipment to me. I don't mean to sound pessimistic but you will not get the progest-e-complex from the US if you are not planning on going there and getting it yourself. I am sorry. I have tried so many times.
peatarian
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MartinBrown said:
Sorry, I forgot: the UK might be the one exception for I don't know anyone there and they will not allow a non-residential any customs procedures. So this would be the only country where it might work. But I also have to add that I always ordered many bottles so the shipping (about 60 USD) cost would make sense.
peatarian
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GregW said:
I think the relation between testosterone and progesterone was in an article which is no longer online. Lately I have missed a few I read years ago (like the one about HIV). In at least two of the newsletters it was mentioned but since I own them on paper only I cannot search in them and unfortunately do not have the time to re-read them right now.
I have experienced first- and second hand that progesterone is just as potent in lowering testosterone as it is in lowering estrogen. As I wrote earlier I have been using a lot (sometimes a bottle in 3 days) and it took a few months until I noticed that my muscles disappeared. It was always easy for me to build muscles in my arms and legs -- there was hardly anything left after about 4 months of progesterone. Which is not dramatic for me. I am using less now (1 bottle in 2 weeks) and slowly the muscles come back. But it takes effort and time. I also noticed some other changes. Behavioral most of all. I lack ambition which I never did. I avoid confrontation which I never did. I lack motivation which is new, too. Things usually connected to testosterone seem to have gone missing.
A friend of mine (male) had a car accident with brain injury. He has been using progesterone for 4 months. His brain is fine now but his muscles vanished during that time (1 bottle in 1 week) and he had no libido at all.
A 70 year old man was heavily injured during an accident and used 1 bottle of progest-e-complex in 2 weeks. His body healed but his muscles were gone.
A friend of mine (female) is a sports swimmer. She has been using progest-e-complex to get pregnant. Sports will do a lot of harm to a the system and it took a while until the progesterone started to decrease the estrogen. At the same time her hair became thicker and her skin better and her luteal phase longer -- her muscles became less and less. In the end she couldn't swim for more than 20 minutes when before that there was no limit or at least she never experienced it.
There are lots of little examples in between. I contacted Ray Peat several time because of this effect of progesterone. He told me that although he had not written a lot about testosterone he considered it to be nearly as toxic as estrogen. But he doesn't ever recommend progesterone to young men (young meaning: younger than 60 years) because lowering testosterone at younger age could be harmful. Before that two close friends had tried progest-e out of curiosity. They never felt any effect and stopped using it after RPs e-mail.
One told me that he had his blood tested during that time (not for testosterone) and that his blood sugar was extremely high. I have found some studies saying that men with a testosterone deficiency tend to have high blood sugar. There where other problems, too but it's been years since I did the research and don't want to tell you something I am not sure of.
Don't get me wrong: If you are a woman I would recommend using progest-e-complex no matter what. Just try to find a dosage that will allow you to keep your muscles. At least some of them. The lack of muscles in your upper arms and thighs will lead to more fat cells which will produce more estrogen after all.
If you are a young man and have some health issues like burn wounds, head trauma, organ failure --- by all means: Use progesterone for a short time.
But if you are healthy and want to keep or restore the balance of your hormones, use pregnenolone and not progesterone. That's what Ray Peat told me and what I learned to be absolutely true.
G
gummybear
Guest
peatarian said:
I guess your living in Norway? If you live in the EU the toll isn't strict. I get alot of packages from usa (around 10-15) every month and i've never paid any tolls on them.
peatarian
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gummybear said:
No, Norway is one of the few countries where I've never even been. I live in Germany currently. But I have had the customs trouble in Spain, France, Austria, Belgium and the Netherlands, Czechoslovakia, Croatia, Greece and Italy. So yes, it's always been the EU.
Shipments which were seized and destroyed or sent back included: progest-e-complex (prescription and pharmacy only in most EU countries), vitamin B by Jarrow's due to too high a dosage, Super Selenium Complex by Life Extension -- same reason, vitamin K, pregnenolone (same as progesterone, pharmacy only), vitamin A (pharmacy only), vitamin D3 (dosage too high), cascara (not identifiable), thyroid (pharmacy and prescription only) and lots of medicine I do not care to mention here.
I order about 8 to 12 packages a month. About one or two usually get through customs without notification. Usually you have to send a description of what it contains, your payment confirmation and some papers. Then you pay customs taxes and storage fees and then you are free to get your shipment.
If - and that's a big if - it does not contain medicine or pharmaceuticals, cosmetics or herbal remedies. Those are sent to the department of healthcare (similar to the FDA) where they are checked at a laboratory. After all -- what would stop you to open gelatine capsules containing cink and replacing the powder with cocaine? You are not even allowed to import drugs you have prescriptions for into the European Union due to the pharmacy protection act of 1998 which has been made national law in all member countries during the last years. Prescription only drugs must be imported by licensed pharmacies. I even tried to get a license but was stopped by the enormous costs.
Since most of my friends and many, many acquaintances live the Ray Peat way they all order stuff on the net because you don't get it anywhere else and we are sick and tired of arguing with dimwitted doctors and annoying pharmacies. We all have the same trouble with customs in all EU countries plus Switzerland and have had it for many years. If you check the forums regarding thyroid, pregnenolone, progesterone and some medicine like antibiotics you will find that this is very common within the EU. I have never heard of anyone who gets his shipments through without trouble. If you are caught trying to smuggle in medicine or hormones and you admit to ordering them you will have to pay a fine according to your annual income. The first time I was caught with three bottles of progest-e-complex I admitted I had ordered them and was fined 280 Euro. The progesterone was sent back. A friend of mine made the same experience in Brussels, another one got caught in Barcelona.
The only stuff which goes through without much ado are cink, magnesium and some low grade vitamins you could buy in the EU as well.
Your post made me curious: Are you successfully importing medicine or hormones? And if so what's your secrets? I know dozens of people who'd be VERY interested in that kind of information.
G
gummybear
Guest
peatarian said:
Sounds very very strange to me
I just picked up two packages today from usa containing pregnenolone and some spices and coconut oil. Didn't have any problem with that. I just make sure the order is under 35 euro and it's all good. The toll usually checks packages over that amount. No I don't importing medicines, but prices in the usa is alot cheaper than here in europe. Try ordering under 35euro. There are a number of good websites that sell pregnenalone and some peat friendly stuff.
I just read over the posts again and didn't notice any mention of Peat's not being connected with Progest-E. I've heard him say that he is no longer affiliated with the product. I think he said it's been 20 years since he was. Just wanted to put that straight.
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