High Glutamate

Aspirin protects against several kinds of toxicity, including excitotoxicity (glutamate), dopamine toxicity, and oxidative free radical toxicity. Since its effects on the mitochondria are similar to those of thyroid (T3), using both of them might improve brain energy production more than just thyroid. (By activating T3, aspirin can sometimes increase the temperature and pulse rate.) Magnesium, niacinamide, and other nerve protective substances work together.

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http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/aspirin-brain-cancer.shtml

currently right now I'm not taking aspirin or thyroid, so hopefully with diet and magnesium it should be protective enough.

Haidut just posted about theanine possibly helping with this issue.

really??? just drink more tea then?? I just bought taurine, instead of theanine

@mamaherrera,

Are you taking, by chance, vitamin K?
If not, I think it may be worth trying as vitamin K has a role in glutamate conversion and its absence affects the rate of activity of the enzyme glutamate dehydrogenase.

- Sugiura I, et al, Propeptide and glutamate-containing substrates bound to the vitamin K-dependent carboxylase convert its vitamin K epoxidase function from an inactive to an active site, Proc. Natl, Acad Sci. USA, Vol. 94, August 1997.

- Lider VA, The effect of vitamin K on the activity of glycolysis and pentose phosphate cycle enzymes, Vopr Med Khim., 1988 May-June.

Have you ever made a blood test panel regarding your vitamin B6 status?
- blood level of pyridoxal phosphate
- GPT and GOT transaminases

In case of a deficiency, the addition of a B6 supplement could be interesting too.....

Very interesting you say that, as I always am low on "cronometer" in K and E. but lately I've been taking 400 mg of E, so how many drops of K would be good to balance that out but not lower my e? Also, lately these last nights, I've been waking up due to restless legs and/or restless arms, that just want to keep stretching. Any help for this? B6, I haven't tested, but I do take a B complex and sometimes an extra 50 of B6

And I did read an article by Peat, about how Progesterone and pregnenolone help against excitotoxins (glutamic acid is one)> Now there is glutamic acid is great lakes hydrolyzed gelatin, is that a bad thing if you're having 3-4 TBSP's daily?
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/mu ... osis.shtml

Be careful with B6, only B-6 can sometimes induce the same symptoms as you mention too (which can be the same as glutamate).

Balance is the key, again. I usually take ~14mg of B6 a day. Somewhere else on this forum, I described how I prepared it (100 mg / week - dissolved).

Regarding the gelatin:
Yes that can be, but doesn't have to be. It's only you who can feel it..

@Suikerbuik,

Thanks for the clarification about the B6 stuff.
Ray also recommends around 10mg of it.

@mamaherrera,

You can try to take Haidut's estroban ratio as a reference.
Based on it, around 4mg of oral K2 ( in the form of MK-4 only at this dosage.) sounds reasonable.
I hope also that j. will soon chime in as he, too, knows very well the tricky interconnection between the E/K thing.
I use myself the liposoluble vitamins but only on my skin as per Ray's recommendation.

so perhaps just stick with my B6 that's in my Bcomplex. Maybe I'll try gelatin being left out for a while and see. And yes, my symptoms, are just that my muscles are tight and want to be stretched, and no matter how much I stretch, they just aren't satisfied. And it wakes me up until I walk around and move a bit. Or take something (if it is pain) One more question. right before bed (which is a late time) I have my milk/sugar/gelatin/salt. But I also take my vitamin E/progest e/magnesium/niacinamide/ and sometimes K (Not sure still on the ratio between K and E) and I am wondering if that's too much supplements to be taking right before laying down to bed?? I never want to take them earlier, because I don't want that "lax" feeling I hope they give me until right before I lay down. Could that have anything to do with it??



Also on that same note, if I take my magnesium with calcium (milk) does that not allow my body to get the magnesium??? Because now that I"m trying to make calcium ratio 1:1 with phosphorous, magnesium is ALWAYS lower, and before my docs said that my calcium to mag ratio should be 1:2 and it is no longer that ratio, now it's more like 1:5-1, so could I be staying deficient in magnesium from all the calcium intake, especially when I take them together?
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thanks Wilfred, on the ratio. I will keep that in mind. But what if on that day my nutritional intake of K is way higher than E, would i still take the same ratio?? IT' gets confusing!

mamaherrera said:

...'But what if on that day my nutritional intake of K is way higher than E, would i still take the same ratio?? IT' gets confusing!

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j.? Haidut? Suikerbuik? Ray Peat? Anyone here?

No idea about all those ratio in terms of numbers. However I don't think that a 'theoretical' higher K in ratio to E is something to worry about. I don't think K increases the need for more vit. E. Anyway I am not so deep into this subject, so if I am wrong correct me.

Wilfrid said:

mamaherrera said:

...'But what if on that day my nutritional intake of K is way higher than E, would i still take the same ratio?? IT' gets confusing!

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j.? Haidut? Suikerbuik? Ray Peat? Anyone here?

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Based on the studies I have seen intake of vitamin E does not start to "deplete" K until you reach the 1,000mg daily of tocopherols intake. So supplementing 400IU of vitamin E is probably OK, and you can take as much K as you can afford K2 intake does not seem to affect vitamin E stores.
Like Wilfrid and Blossom said, for direct antagonism of glutamate theanine and vitamin K are probably the best. Theanine is a direct glutamate antagonist due to its very similar structure so it will reduce the effects of glumatame, while vitamin K will help convert it to harmless metabolites and excrete it. On the pharma drug side, tianeptine is known glutamate antagonist and the latest studies suggest that this antagonism is the major reason behind its antidepressant effect, and not so much serotonin reduction. Finally, since you already bought taurine - taurine is also an (functional) antagonist to glutamate as well glycine, alanine, and maybe proline. There is some evidence that taurine may help convert glutamate into GABA, which is my next point below.
However, you should consider another possibility. Glutamate is the major excitatory neurotransmitter and also the precursor to GABA, which is the main inhibitory transmitter. So, without glutamate there is no GABA. High glutamate means the conversion process to GABA is inhibited by something, similarly to the high cholesterol meaning the conversion to the steroids is inhibited. That something is usually hypothyroidism. Since you report racing mind at night, this indicates high glutamate, high cortisol, high adrenalin or all of them combined. Taking substances that increase GABA release and/or synthesis, or act like GABA should help, but so will simply increasing the metabolic rate before going to bed. The former approach would involve taking any of the following - aspirin, tianeptine, theanine, niacinamide, progesterone, saturated fat, magnesium, taurine, alanine, glycine, proline, pregnenolone, BCAA (maybe). The latter approach would involve simply ingesting 30g+ of protein preferably low in tryptophan, loading up on salt and sugar, and taking a bit of thyroid (if needed at all). I would try both and see what benefits you best. It may end up being a combination of both approaches.

thank you so much, for this explanation, very very helpful. Haidut!! Very smart!! You say before going to bed, increase metabolic rate, right? Right now I'm taking niacinamide and magnesium with a glass of sugared milk before bed. When you say the others, would that mean experiment with different combinations (sat.fat/aspirin) And when you say take 30 grams of protein, would that be right before bed??? Any examples of a good protein/salt/sugar before bed?? I would like to try different things to see what would help me most. Thank you so much, I've learned so much from you all!! On the same note, if you didn't see my other thread, of Peat's approach, what is most helpful in lowering hydrogen peroxide buildup???

mamaherrera said:

thank you so much, for this explanation, very very helpful. Haidut!! Very smart!! You say before going to bed, increase metabolic rate, right? Right now I'm taking niacinamide and magnesium with a glass of sugared milk before bed. When you say the others, would that mean experiment with different combinations (sat.fat/aspirin) And when you say take 30 grams of protein, would that be right before bed??? Any examples of a good protein/salt/sugar before bed?? I would like to try different things to see what would help me most. Thank you so much, I've learned so much from you all!! On the same note, if you didn't see my other thread, of Peat's approach, what is most helpful in lowering hydrogen peroxide buildup???

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Yes, I meant try different combinations of food and supplements. The protein that is supposed to be optimal for night is casein as it will metabolize slowly and keep your liver happy all night, assuming there is enough sugar to balance 30g I suggest as trying before bed. You may need less or more, so you have to experiment. So, cheese, strained yogurt, etc are probably best. I am not sure what I can suggest for sugar/salt, I guess you can try eating olives with your cheese or adding salt to your orange juice. Peta also said that ice cream is a good way to increase glycogen at night.

thanks, another bad night and I took it all, vitamin E, aspirin (baby dose), milk with sugar and salt, just a bad night, hardly slept. I will keep trying

mamaherrera said:

thanks, another bad night and I took it all, vitamin E, aspirin (baby dose), milk with sugar and salt, just a bad night, hardly slept. I will keep trying

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Aspirin may actually interfere with sleep. Even though it may be helpful for glutamate, several people have reported that taking it night makes them agitated and unable to sleep. So, I'd take aspirin during the day instead.

haidut said:

On the pharma drug side, tianeptine is known glutamate antagonist and the latest studies suggest that this antagonism is the major reason behind its antidepressant effect, and not so much serotonin reduction.

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So it doesn't really reduce Serotonin so much?

Joeyd said:

So it doesn't really reduce Serotonin so much?

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That is the latest consensus - i.e. it does not seem to act as a SSRE or lower serum serotonin.

mamaherrera said:

thanks, another bad night and I took it all, vitamin E, aspirin (baby dose), milk with sugar and salt, just a bad night, hardly slept. I will keep trying

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you need to try theanine