High Protein Diet Prevents & Reverses Fatty Liver Disease (steatosis)

haidut · Feb 19, 2015

A high protein diet (35% of calories) completely prevented fatty liver disease (steatosis) and reversed existing one caused by high fat diet (45% of calories). Assuming a 2000 calorie diet, 35% protein is 175g, which is not that much and achievable with food alone.
So, for the people who cannot tolerate caffeine or K2 this may be a viable option for restoring liver health.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 3913000409

"...Conclusion: HP diets prevent and reverse steatosis independently of fat and carbohydrate intake more efficiently than a 20% reduction in energy intake. The effect appears to result from fuel-generated, highly distributed small, synergistic increases in lipid and BCAA catabolism, and a decrease in cell stress."

Peata · Feb 19, 2015

This is exciting news to me, but I'm not sure i can stay in my calorie limit to lose weight and get enough protein and enough carbs. When i put a theoretical day in cronometer, at about 1,700 calories I get 136 g. protein, 213 g. carbs. That's only about 32% of calories in protein. Is that too little carbs for that amount of protein?

Adding - i usually get at least 80 g. protein daily.

haidut · Feb 19, 2015

Peata said:
This is exciting news to me, but I'm not sure i can stay in my calorie limit to lose weight and get enough protein and enough carbs. When i put a theoretical day in cronometer, at about 1,700 calories I get 136 g. protein, 213 g. carbs. That's only about 32% of calories in protein. Is that too little carbs for that amount of protein?

Adding - i usually get at least 80 g. protein daily.

That may still be OK for you, no need to match the study exactly. One thing that I would be worried about with so much protein is increased cortisol and ammonia. Your level of carbs are close to a 2:1 ratio to protein so you should be OK. The better the metabolism, the lower carb to protein ratio you can get away with.
The study did not say anything about cortisol and it probably was not an issue b/c most studies with high protein diets are well aware of the cortisol issue with high protein and watch for it. Besides, if the mice on the high protein diet had so much high cortisol they would have reduced their food intake and actually end up gaining weight. So, it looks like they did fine.
As far as ammonia goes, taking 30mg-50mg zinc daily should be able to address it. Increasing salt and magnesium should help as well. If you don't feel like your ammonia is high then maybe no need to take anything.

Peata · Feb 19, 2015

OK, but do the results of this study sound to you like a low carb diet is good for the liver?

haidut · Feb 19, 2015

Peata said:
OK, but do the results of this study sound to you like a low carb diet is good for the liver?

Well, the mice did not exhibit any liver damage or changes suggestive of damage. They were eating protein:carb ratio of 1:1 and I guess that was enough to not damage the liver. Btw, the liver is not going to be damaged by low carb b/c with so much protein, some of it will be converted to glucose. The bigger issue I was worried about was elevated cortisol caused by the drop in blood sugar due to the protein, and cortisol is expected to cause some damage to skin, bone, thymus, etc. However,the study mentions nothing about that so I guess the mice were fine.

RPDiciple · Apr 19, 2015

Great find. But did they use something else then just % of calories when they decided what high protein diet was? since this all is dependent on if one wants to loose weight/fat etc etc. Should be better to use bodyweight or something instead for determine min protein intake to prevent and reverse fatty liver.

Im gonna try up my protein intake for sure.

Dean · Apr 19, 2015

Keeping your protein intake at or around 35% would mean an effload of protein, especially if you subscribe to the refeeding notion of needing 3,4,5K calories a day. I mean, I am only up to about 2700 calories with 110g protein, and it is only 16% protein. So, presumably I'd need to double my protein intake. Of course, this doesn't really square with Peat's view that people with compromised liver function should keep protein at 80-100 g. a day.

With so much conflicting info., I guess all there is to do is experiment on yourself. Don't get me wrong, haidut, I greatly appreciate you and anyone else posting studies, anecdotal experience, etc. that questions, improves, expounds upon Peat's views. Would be interested in hearing what all the high calorie proponents here get in terms of percentage of calories from protein.

haidut · Apr 19, 2015

RPDiciple said:
Great find. But did they use something else then just % of calories when they decided what high protein diet was? since this all is dependent on if one wants to loose weight/fat etc etc. Should be better to use bodyweight or something instead for determine min protein intake to prevent and reverse fatty liver.

Im gonna try up my protein intake for sure.

The mice used in the study were almost identical in weight and as such the percentage of calories makes sense. I guess for humans, who have such wide variety of weights, percentages would still apply but the total caloric intake has to be taken into account. I hope people do not assume that high protein diet is 45% out of 2000 calories, while in reality they are eating 4,000 - 5,000 and end up with protein intake that is too low.

RPDiciple · Apr 19, 2015

haidut said:
RPDiciple said:

Great find. But did they use something else then just % of calories when they decided what high protein diet was? since this all is dependent on if one wants to loose weight/fat etc etc. Should be better to use bodyweight or something instead for determine min protein intake to prevent and reverse fatty liver.

Im gonna try up my protein intake for sure.

Click to expand...

The mice used in the study were almost identical in weight and as such the percentage of calories makes sense. I guess for humans, who have such wide variety of weights, percentages would still apply but the total caloric intake has to be taken into account. I hope people do not assume that high protein diet is 45% out of 2000 calories, while in reality they are eating 4,000 - 5,000 and end up with protein intake that is too low.

Understand. But i guess its up to a certain point? i think eating more then 200-250g protein is not nessessary no matter what? exept if you are an elite bodybuilder that uses serious drugs.

But i want do up my protein to 200g and see if it makes a difference while doing the low/no fat. 800-1200 caffeine a day and see if my water retention/estrogen dominance get better and if i can loose some more fat. Even tho that much protein will carry more calories with it

haidut · Apr 19, 2015

Dean said:
Keeping your protein intake at or around 35% would mean an effload of protein, especially if you subscribe to the refeeding notion of needing 3,4,5K calories a day. I mean, I am only up to about 2700 calories with 110g protein, and it is only 16% protein. So, presumably I'd need to double my protein intake. Of course, this doesn't really square with Peat's view that people with compromised liver function should keep protein at 80-100 g. a day.

With so much conflicting info., I guess all there is to do is experiment on yourself. Don't get me wrong, haidut, I greatly appreciate you and anyone else posting studies, anecdotal experience, etc. that questions, improves, expounds upon Peat's views. Would be interested in hearing what all the high calorie proponents here get in terms of percentage of calories from protein.

Oh, by all means - Peat himself said that ultimate source of knowledge is experiment. All the studies do is at best point you in the right direction. You will see that my posts often contain "experiment is your best bet" kind of response. I think a lot of people on the forum coming being new to the Peat method expect to see or get a specific recommendation on dosages, while the only "recommendation" like Peat said can really be "perceive, think re(act)". We are all very different biochemically, and the only thing that is common across all is oxidative phosphorylation.

haidut · Apr 19, 2015

RPDiciple said:
haidut said:

RPDiciple said:

Great find. But did they use something else then just % of calories when they decided what high protein diet was? since this all is dependent on if one wants to loose weight/fat etc etc. Should be better to use bodyweight or something instead for determine min protein intake to prevent and reverse fatty liver.

Im gonna try up my protein intake for sure.

Click to expand...

The mice used in the study were almost identical in weight and as such the percentage of calories makes sense. I guess for humans, who have such wide variety of weights, percentages would still apply but the total caloric intake has to be taken into account. I hope people do not assume that high protein diet is 45% out of 2000 calories, while in reality they are eating 4,000 - 5,000 and end up with protein intake that is too low.

Click to expand...

Understand. But i guess its up to a certain point? i think eating more then 200-250g protein is not nessessary no matter what? exept if you are an elite bodybuilder that uses serious drugs.

But i want do up my protein to 200g and see if it makes a difference while doing the low/no fat. 800-1200 caffeine a day and see if my water retention/estrogen dominance get better.

Sure, I don't think that much protein makes sense for most people. Btw, if you are eating high protein diet I'd take it easy on the caffeine. It impedes ammonia disposal and has been shown to increase the risk of kidney damage at doses of 600mg+ when combined with high protein diet. If you start feeling sluggish and your pee clearly smells like ammonia then cut back on the caffeine or protein.

RPDiciple · Apr 19, 2015

haidut said:
RPDiciple said:

haidut said:

RPDiciple said:

Great find. But did they use something else then just % of calories when they decided what high protein diet was? since this all is dependent on if one wants to loose weight/fat etc etc. Should be better to use bodyweight or something instead for determine min protein intake to prevent and reverse fatty liver.

Im gonna try up my protein intake for sure.

Click to expand...

The mice used in the study were almost identical in weight and as such the percentage of calories makes sense. I guess for humans, who have such wide variety of weights, percentages would still apply but the total caloric intake has to be taken into account. I hope people do not assume that high protein diet is 45% out of 2000 calories, while in reality they are eating 4,000 - 5,000 and end up with protein intake that is too low.

Click to expand...

Understand. But i guess its up to a certain point? i think eating more then 200-250g protein is not nessessary no matter what? exept if you are an elite bodybuilder that uses serious drugs.

But i want do up my protein to 200g and see if it makes a difference while doing the low/no fat. 800-1200 caffeine a day and see if my water retention/estrogen dominance get better.

Click to expand...

Sure, I don't think that much protein makes sense for most people. Btw, if you are eating high protein diet I'd take it easy on the caffeine. It impedes ammonia disposal and has been shown to increase the risk of kidney damage at doses of 600mg+ when combined with high protein diet. If you start feeling sluggish and your pee clearly smells like ammonia then cut back on the caffeine or protein.

Hmm really. Doesnt make sense that it would do that? im getting 150g from milk and 25g from gelatin atm.

Dean · Apr 19, 2015

haidut said:
Dean said:

Keeping your protein intake at or around 35% would mean an effload of protein, especially if you subscribe to the refeeding notion of needing 3,4,5K calories a day. I mean, I am only up to about 2700 calories with 110g protein, and it is only 16% protein. So, presumably I'd need to double my protein intake. Of course, this doesn't really square with Peat's view that people with compromised liver function should keep protein at 80-100 g. a day.

With so much conflicting info., I guess all there is to do is experiment on yourself. Don't get me wrong, haidut, I greatly appreciate you and anyone else posting studies, anecdotal experience, etc. that questions, improves, expounds upon Peat's views. Would be interested in hearing what all the high calorie proponents here get in terms of percentage of calories from protein.

Click to expand...

Oh, by all means - Peat himself said that ultimate source of knowledge is experiment. All the studies do is at best point you in the right direction. You will see that my posts often contain "experiment is your best bet" kind of response. I think a lot of people on the forum coming being new to the Peat method expect to see or get a specific recommendation on dosages, while the only "recommendation" like Peat said can really be "perceive, think re(act)". We are all very different biochemically, and the only thing that is common across all is oxidative phosphorylation.

Fair enough, haidut. By the way, I wasn't lumping you in with the high calorie refeeding proponents, because I don't recall coming across any input from you on where you stand on generally optimal or determining individual overall optimal caloric intake, especially in regard to achieving weight loss. I don't want to hijack this thread or restart (please, no) that whole debate I had with the high calorie proponents on another thread as to how it relates to Peat's recommendations. I am curious though where you stand, haidut, on this matter.

Tom · Apr 19, 2015

Kerin O´Dea showed 30 years ago how 10 Australian aboriginal people when reverting to their traditional diet and lifestyle more or less cured diabetes in 7 weeks on a 1200 kcal diet, with 52E% protein, 13E% fats and 35E% carbs, high in phosopholipids (choline). To my knowledge there´s been no follow up to this study and it´s hardly mentioned anywhere.

This year diabetes will cost around $300 billion in the US alone, of which 2/3 or something is paid for by the US government.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6373464

Tom · Apr 22, 2015

Also this small study where participants (postmenopausal women) lost 49% of liver fat in 5 weeks on a diet with 30% protein, 40% fats and 30% carbs. Caloric intake was automatically reduced (not by forced restriction) from 2400 to 1900 kcal and the participants lost 4.6 kg or 10 pounds. Activity level was unchanged. The fats was however mostly mufa and pufa, some nuts.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 8/abstract

BibleBeliever · May 23, 2017

haidut said:
Sure, I don't think that much protein makes sense for most people. Btw, if you are eating high protein diet I'd take it easy on the caffeine. It impedes ammonia disposal and has been shown to increase the risk of kidney damage at doses of 600mg+ when combined with high protein diet. If you start feeling sluggish and your pee clearly smells like ammonia then cut back on the caffeine or protein.

Any more information on this?
I read that high caffeine can impede vitamin b6 synthesis, now it also impedes ammonia disposal. Any other warnings; has anyone compiled them?

lvysaur · Mar 15, 2018

JackHanma said:
Any other warnings; has anyone compiled them?

Supposedly high homocysteine levels.

Mauritio · Jan 17, 2019

haidut said:
A high protein diet (35% of calories) completely prevented fatty liver disease (steatosis) and reversed existing one caused by high fat diet (45% of calories). Assuming a 2000 calorie diet, 35% protein is 175g, which is not that much and achievable with food alone.
So, for the people who cannot tolerate caffeine or K2 this may be a viable option for restoring liver health.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 3913000409

"...Conclusion: HP diets prevent and reverse steatosis independently of fat and carbohydrate intake more efficiently than a 20% reduction in energy intake. The effect appears to result from fuel-generated, highly distributed small, synergistic increases in lipid and BCAA catabolism, and a decrease in cell stress."

Interesting. What surprises me is that the low fat group did not experience much better results than the high fat groups, given PUFA depletion in 4 weeks when served a low fat diet.
Maybe low fat is still not low enough ...?

Also interesting is that PUFA concentration did not vary amongst the HP diets.

"The concentration of the functionally important PUFAs arachidonic acid (AA; C22:4n6), eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA; C20:5n3), and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA; C22:6n3) was not different between the diets, that is, preserved in mice fed the anti-steatotic HP diets..."

haidut · Jan 17, 2019

Mauritio said:
Interesting. What surprises me is that the low fat group did not experience much better results than the high fat groups, given PUFA depletion in 4 weeks when served a low fat diet.
Maybe low fat is still not low enough ...?

Also interesting is that PUFA concentration did not vary amongst the HP diets.

"The concentration of the functionally important PUFAs arachidonic acid (AA; C22:4n6), eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA; C20:5n3), and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA; C22:6n3) was not different between the diets, that is, preserved in mice fed the anti-steatotic HP diets..."

Those are the less important PUFA, because they are derivatives of linoleic acid. The more important ones like linoleic acid did decrease on the low fat diet or high-protein diets.
"...The hepatic content of the essential PUFAs linoleic (C18:2n6) and α-linolenic acids (C18:3n3) was, as expected, higher in the HF than the LF diets, but > 2-fold reduced in mice fed the HF/HP compared to the HF/LP diet (P = 0.002 and P = 0.034, respectively)."

Mauritio · Jan 17, 2019

Okay thanks!

BTW if you eat a normal diet ,which is more like 3000 calories on this forum you need about 262 g of protein to prevent NAFLD, which is kind of insane given the amount you had to eat.
So I will try to get as close to 200g as possible but nothing more than that. Just doesn't sound healthy to me...

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