6 Months Into Peating, I Get Diabetes

[Heidi]

Yes I did, thanks very much artemis

And I take Progest-e (more than one drop) currently and I when I initially saw marikay's post I promptly smothered Progest-E on shoulder, waiting for a miracle, sadly not my experience.
I am currently experimenting with a few supplements and also testing IR light and when I have more conclusive results I will post.
I've tried most of the physical therapies and none have been helpful.
What has been the stand out is Feldenkrais. Awareness through movement.

Moss, I've had a frozen shoulder twice. I think that mine might have been due to my thyroid. The first time it mostly wasn't painful, but I couldn't lift my arm. It took an entire year, but it fully healed and I had complete range of motion afterwards. This second time was maybe 6 months ago and it was more painful. I was expecting it to take a year to heal, but the pain went away really fast once I reduced my breathing and increased CO2. I don't quite have the full range of motion back yet, but almost. I was expecting it to take a year to heal, so it is a relief that it healed much faster than that. My experience with the frozen shoulder is that it requires patience and time, more than physical therapy. I've done Feldenkrais and agree that that is really helpful for increasing all kinds of movement capacity. Now I sometimes do any kind of movement that my body wants to do, while maintaining awareness of the body and felt sense. Kind of like a free form Feldenkrais, instead of specific exercises.

@artemis, thanks for giving an honest account of how things went for you. I have diabetes on both sides of my family. My brother and his two kids have all been type 1 diabetic from a young age. My understanding is that type 1 is a whole different thing than type 2, and you have a whole lot less control around getting it. But my brother and both his kids were addicted to sugar and other junk food. But maybe they craved sugar due to having the condition? When I was younger, I was always afraid that I was going to get diabetes.

I don't feel good if I eat too much sugar. So I don't drink milk, orange juice, or consume any sugar, honey, or maple syrup. I eat fruit, but too much fruit and I don't feel good either. But Ray Peat suggestions of liver, gelatin, carrot, less PUFA, etc... seem to be helpful so far. It seems like lots of people need to modify Ray Peat's advice to fit what works for them as an individual. I've also had a tendency to have low blood sugar issues. Your experience is a helpful reminder to me to trust myself and body. Thanks.

 

[moss]

Moss, I've had a frozen shoulder twice. I think that mine might have been due to my thyroid. The first time it mostly wasn't painful, but I couldn't lift my arm. It took an entire year, but it fully healed and I had complete range of motion afterwards. This second time was maybe 6 months ago and it was more painful. I was expecting it to take a year to heal, but the pain went away really fast once I reduced my breathing and increased CO2. I don't quite have the full range of motion back yet, but almost. I was expecting it to take a year to heal, so it is a relief that it healed much faster than that. My experience with the frozen shoulder is that it requires patience and time, more than physical therapy. I've done Feldenkrais and agree that that is really helpful for increasing all kinds of movement capacity. Now I sometimes do any kind of movement that my body wants to do, while maintaining awareness of the body and felt sense. Kind of like a free form Feldenkrais, instead of specific exercises.

@artemis, thanks for giving an honest account of how things went for you. I have diabetes on both sides of my family. My brother and his two kids have all been type 1 diabetic from a young age. My understanding is that type 1 is a whole different thing than type 2, and you have a whole lot less control around getting it. But my brother and both his kids were addicted to sugar and other junk food. But maybe they craved sugar due to having the condition? When I was younger, I was always afraid that I was going to get diabetes.

I don't feel good if I eat too much sugar. So I don't drink milk, orange juice, or consume any sugar, honey, or maple syrup. I eat fruit, but too much fruit and I don't feel good either. But Ray Peat suggestions of liver, gelatin, carrot, less PUFA, etc... seem to be helpful so far. It seems like lots of people need to modify Ray Peat's advice to fit what works for them as an individual. I've also had a tendency to have low blood sugar issues. Your experience is a helpful reminder to me to trust myself and body. Thanks.

Thanks Heidi interesting you have had it twice and that would be telling you something. Ouch, I wince at the thought...
I agree patience and time - I'm learning (slowly!).
No doubt part of the 'hypo' presentation for sure and postural/stress for me as well etc.....
From my reading, it would seem there is also a high incidence of frozen shoulder in people with diabetes (which I don't have).
Thanks for the reminder of mindful breathing.
Glad to hear you recovered pretty well.

 

[Anders]

You may want to check out this article "3 Easy Ways to Stop Mouth Breathing at Night" - T1D Life-Saver: 3 Easy Ways to Stop Mouth Breathing at Night

In the article the author writes "My wife, Nicole – who has had type-1 diabetes for 39 years – was in a wheelchair last October. Switching to nasal breathing 24/7 is a big reason why she can now complete 3km walks outdoors."

 

[Emoney36]

Whatever "Peating" is, I obviously did it wrong.

Maybe I changed my diet too fast? I never ate or drank sugar my whole adult life, or drank milk, or ate fruit. Then, last November, I started with this WOE. Started drinking milk, eating fruit, using sugar in my coffee, having a Red Bull or Coke now and then (never more than one a day, though). Then around April/May, I started getting symptoms of high blood sugar. It was pretty bad, like around 500 for awhile. I didn't want to go the traditional route of doctors and insulin. I tried to deal with it on my own, by using all the things I've read about that are supposed to help, like mega-dosing aspirin, B-vitamins, and other things I'm forgetting. None of that stuff made much difference. I ended up in the emergency room (husband and daughter dragged me there) because of constant vomiting. They gave me a prescription for Metformin, and I have been taking that. It didn't lower the numbers, but it did somehow make me feel much better. I want to get off of it, though. I have lowered my fasting BG from 363 to 160 over the past 6 days, by cutting all carbs. No sugar, no starch at all. I'm so relieved that it's coming down so fast!

I'm just wondering how it went so wrong for me, yet you all seem to be able to handle all this sugar and not have any problems with blood glucose. A naturopathic doctor who I've seen a couple of times recently told me that she sees this a lot in women over 50? (I'm 52). No diabetes in my family, but I have always had problems with LOW blood sugar in the past.

So I guess I'm just putting this out there as a cautionary tale -- might be wise to take it slow as far as changing one's diet, and maybe adding sugary food/drink is not such a great idea for some people.

I still love Ray, and have learned so much from him, and from all of you, and will continue to follow most of the dietary guidelines, but the whole sugar thing didn't work out for me at all.

Just like any receptor in the body, it can be downregulated to maintain homeostasis. Insulin receptors are nothing special.

 

[Motif]

Hi artemis,

Do you know your current copper/ceruloplasmin levels as well as iron/transferrin?
If you were ( or still are ) copper deficient when starting on a more " pro-thyroid " diet, chances are that loading on fructose or sucrose ( as compared to starch and, to a lesser extent, glucose ) exacerbate the severity of a copper deficiency.
Inadequate copper produces adverse effects on the metabolism of cholesterol and glucose, blood pressure control and heart function, mineralization of bones, and immunity.( Copper )
Low copper/ceruloplasmin level often goes in hand with high iron level. And while on this diet, if you drink milk ( instead of hard aged cheese or lactose free cheese for ex.) and fruits juice ( instead of the whole fruit ), you will further aggravate the ratio between iron and copper. Fructose strongly stimulates the uptake of iron. Lactose produces also a great retention of iron ( followed by sucrose and glucose ). Starch produces the least retention. A N.I.D diet ( near iron deficiency ) is sometimes very helpful against diabetes. For copper deficient people, any substance that increases iron retention is likely to further lower copper levels even more...and, in this pattern, starches are propably the safest option ( and to a lesser extent whole fruit ) when eaten with proteins and a good quality fat source.
Taking a few supplements at physiological doses ( no more than the RDA, and only if well tolerate ) like B6, B2, taurine, niacinamide and zinc supplement ( no more than 5 mg ), A and E ( as in transdermal route ) could be good too. Or even better: beef liver, if you take no more than few ounces each day ( I think that what forum member Mittir does ) as well as an hot water extract of brewer's ( or even good quality nutritional's ) yeast as a side. I don't know how your current diet looks like but ( if you happen to be even sligthly deficient in copper and/or have excess iron ) consuming ( lactose free ) cheese (instead of milk), daily ( no more than 1-2 ounces per serving ) beef liver, eggs, shellfish ( shrimp mainly ) with well cooked starches ( like potatoes, sweet potatoes ( but the one with the white flesh) and/or white rice, if you choose the latter, thought not Peat approved, I suggest that you add some good quality blackstrap molasse to the cooking water or use any cooked greens broth as a cooking water ), good quality butter and/or good quality desodorized coconut oil ( Dr Goerg brand is the only one, to my knowledge, that does not contains any unsaturated fatty acids left, as well as being the most gut friendly coconut oil that I found so far) and whole fruits ( instead of fruits juices ) with a low fiber, tannins and irritating substances ( like lychees, longans, rambutans, sapote, cherimoyas, papaya, cooked sweet apples ect....), consuming fruits apart from your proteins intake could be helpful too. In the short term, the Ca:P ratio will not be so important, and I strongly discourage you to take any eggshell/oystershell or calcium supplement ( especially in the " carbonate " form ), as a high oral dose of calcium carbonate might produce rebound gastric hyperacidity. Such hyperacidity might actually enhance even the absorption of inorganic iron consumed in the peak acid secretion period, as nonheme iron ( as in some fruits ) absorption is favored by a low intraluminal pH ( source: Nutrient Interactions, C.E Bodwell and John W. Erdman, Jr. , page 120 ).
Of course, and I repeat myself, you can try this dietary approach only if you are copper deficient and/or have high iron levels.

I'm still low in Ceruloplasmin , copper and zinc after supplementing copper , A, E, zinc.

I don't get it and no idea if I should keep supplementing or if I harm myself with it cause copper is going to built up in my organs

 

[Wilfrid]

I'm still low in Ceruloplasmin , copper and zinc after supplementing copper , A, E, zinc.

I don't get it and no idea if I should keep supplementing or if I harm myself with it cause copper is going to built up in my organs

Hi,
Do you know your manganese status as well as the vitamin D one?

 

[Motif]

Hi,
Do you know your manganese status as well as the vitamin D one?

Hi! I was testing manganese but they just gave me a < than result and no specific result.

My vitamin D was very low in 2011, but I was taking pretty huge amounts of it over long time and was out of the deficiency. No idea how my vitamin d is rn.

My iron was too high a few months ago. But ferritin and transferrin were good.
I also have Gilbert syndrome btw

 

[Wilfrid]

Hi! I was testing manganese but they just gave me a < than result and no specific result.

My vitamin D was very low in 2011, but I was taking pretty huge amounts of it over long time and was out of the deficiency. No idea how my vitamin d is rn.

My iron was too high a few months ago. But ferritin and transferrin were good.
I also have Gilbert syndrome btw

High iron is known to interfere with copper mobilization from stores as well as copper use in the body. Copper also interact with selenium status and if you are low in copper, chances are that your selenium can be low as well, thus impacting thyroid activity. Calcium and phosphorus can also interact with copper.
For your high iron, donating your blood, if not risky, like you suggest in an another thread could be an option. Vitamin B2 too plays a role in iron synthesis.
Still, monitoring thyroid, vitamin D ( its role in proper iron metabolism is important ), selenium and to a lesser extent manganese should help.

 

[Motif]

High iron is known to interfere with copper mobilization from stores as well as copper use in the body. Copper also interact with selenium status and if you are low in copper, chances are that your selenium can be low as well, thus impacting thyroid activity. Calcium and phosphorus can also interact with copper.
For your high iron, donating your blood, if not risky, like you suggest in an another thread could be an option. Vitamin B2 too plays a role in iron synthesis.
Still, monitoring thyroid, vitamin D ( its role in proper iron metabolism is important ), selenium and to a lesser extent manganese should help.

Even when ferritin and transferrin are ok?

Could you tell me about the risks of donating blood?


So you would take b2, D, selenium, manganese and copper supplements?

 

[Wilfrid]

I don't honestly know if there is any risk but you specified that you have a condition.
As for the copper, manganese, b2 and selenium I would stick for food sources rather than chemicals.
As long as the vitamin D goes, food sources are scarce and oral supplement may be needed in case of deficiency but, I think, with a clear picture of the whole vitamin D thing ( TSH, calcium, prolactin, hepatic and renal metabolites, PTH, calcitonin and aldosterone ).

 

[Motif]

I don't honestly know if there is any risk but you specified that you have a condition.
As for the copper, manganese, b2 and selenium I would stick for food sources rather than chemicals.
As long as the vitamin D goes, food sources are scarce and oral supplement may be needed in case of deficiency but, I think, with a clear picture of the whole vitamin D thing ( TSH, calcium, prolactin, hepatic and renal metabolites, PTH, calcitonin and aldosterone ).

I tested a lot of stuff. Zinc copper Ceruloplasmin were the only deficiencies. And d a few years back.

I might test selenium and manganese again. And iron too

 

[superhuman]

you just got fat

 

[Motif]

you just got fat

No, she even lose weight

 

[KennethKaniff]

You don’t develop diabetes in 6 months. The increase in carbohydrate merely revealed your insulin resistance. Switching to low-carb is just removing the challenge to your system, not improving the underlying condition

 

[Motif]

Anybody ever reversed diabetes ?

 

[rei]

Yes, most of dr. Fung's patients can resume eating carbs after undergoing fasting to cure t2d. If they don't understand how to continue they will grow the visceral fat back and become diabetic again.

 

[stargazer1111]

So yeah, I guess I do have "diabetes" after all. After struggling to get ahead of it on my own for over a year, and living with BG numbers around 350, I finally gave up and went to see a regular doctor, an internist, and she put me on insulin, which I knew she would. My insulin test number was a 2. I just could not go on trying things that weren't working. I was steady losing weight in spite of eating like a horse, constantly. It was very scary to watch my body disappear before my eyes.

I wanted this way of eating to work for me. I really did. I jumped in head first. I was infatuated with Dr. Peat and all of his work, and didn't even consider for a moment that it might not be right for me. After a year of denial and struggle and worry, I must now conclude that it was a disaster for me. I now must inject insulin into my stomach every day, probably for the rest of my life. I know that it's what I need at this point -- as much as I fought it and hate to admit it, my body reacted so positively to the insulin from the very first day, both from a muscle-testing standpoint and just overall feel ... it was like pouring some water on parched ground.

The doctor said I don't fit into any category. I was making lots of ketones for a long time, was actually in diabetic ketoacidosis. That fact, along with the unintentional weight loss, means I am definitely not a type 2. Yet here I am 53 years old and just getting this diagnosis, no one in my family has ever had diabetes or anything. She says to stop beating myself up about it, that you can't "give yourself diabetes," but I just have to wonder. I made some pretty drastic changes to my diet, and I can't help but think that if I never did any of that, none of this would have happened, and I wouldn't be on insulin now.

I wasn't going to post this update -- I don't want to cause any controversy or anything, I know this way of eating works great for most people. It just didn't work for me. It didn't seem right to post, but then it didn't feel right not to, either. So that's my update, I'm now insulin-dependent! Woo-hoo!!

I don't know if you're still around the forums, but it does sound like this is an adult-onset case of type 1 diabetes.

Believe it or not, type 1 diabetes can actually begin in adults. It's called Latent Autoimmune Diabetes in Adults (LADA) (Clarifying LADA (Type 1 Diabetes in Adults)) and I personally witnessed a case of this occur a few years ago when I was shadowing an endocrinologist in preparation for med school.

 

[artemis]

I don't know if you're still around the forums, but it does sound like this is an adult-onset case of type 1 diabetes.

Believe it or not, type 1 diabetes can actually begin in adults. It's called Latent Autoimmune Diabetes in Adults (LADA) (Clarifying LADA (Type 1 Diabetes in Adults)) and I personally witnessed a case of this occur a few years ago when I was shadowing an endocrinologist in preparation for med school.

Hi Stargazer! I stop by now and then.

Yes, I believe Type 1 diabetes can actually begin in adults, I am living proof! I have read about LADA .... I don't know, it's just another category. According to the article you linked, one of the features of LADA is how slowly it progresses. But I progressed pretty quickly after starting the Peat diet. It also made it sound like someone with LADA would not present with diabetic ketoacidosis -- I was in diabetic ketoacidosis. My case doesn't seem to fit neatly into any category. I still can't wrap my head around how, at age 52, my immune cells decided to start attacking my beta cells? It just doesn't make any sense. I find it easier to believe that my pancreas just wore out from over-producing insulin. Does that even happen? Yet I did test very positive for GAD antibodies.....guess I'll never understand it. I just wish I could turn back the clock to November 2014, and NOT make all the changes I made then.

 

[artemis]

You don’t develop diabetes in 6 months. The increase in carbohydrate merely revealed your insulin resistance. Switching to low-carb is just removing the challenge to your system, not improving the underlying condition

I actually started showing symptoms after only about 3 months. And I am not resistant to insulin. I am very sensitive to insulin. I think you are confusing the two types of diabetes. Most people do. Of all the diabetics in the country, 90 to 95 percent are Type 2. That is the type that is insulin resistant, and usually overweight. I am Type 1.

 

[artemis]

Anybody ever reversed diabetes ?

Type 2 diabetes can be reversed with diet, including fasting, and exercise. There has never been a documented case of Type 1 diabetes being reversed.