Benadryl vs. Cyproheptadine vs. Famotadine vs. ketotifen

[xeliex]

Thank you - yes estrogen is how it all started. i have shared my story on this forum of my pharmaceutical estrogen poisoning from 17 through 29 and this is when the chemical sensitivities set in. I had suffered from severe environmental allergies from the age of 8- probably also stemming from hormones i would now deduce but the chemical issue really does coincide with shortly after the estrogen i was given. What i dont understand is why it persists after all these years. I connected with Dr. Peat at 28/29 and of course immediately stopped all the pharmaceutical hormones. Im 52 now so have been taking progest-e for approaching 25 years. ive been at this a long time, have aged in reverse in many ways, have the hormone profile of a younger woman and other than the chemical sensitivity and allergies am exceedingly healthy. So, I have come to the hypothesis that the estrogen for all those years did something to my body s- like a program it still has not unlearned and i do experience estrogen surge symptoms at times out of nowhere and the sensitivity is at its heights during those times. I just have not figured out how to reverse this program so in a way the antihistamines are Band-Aids in some ways but its so hard to be this sensitive to everything under the sun and live in the world and do what i do which is very much "of the world" so i persist with trying to find an answer. I tried PEA as thought it might address the estrogen program but it did not seem to solve the constant reactions to the slightest minutia of a chemical.`

Have you considered some sort of hypnosis? I am familiar with your story and it does feel like something is "stuck" there.

You are so right about the Band-Aids. They are meant to get someone out of learned helplessness onto better horizons. Have you also checked your PTH? I work in dialysis and patients with the highest PTHs seem to have the worst allergies. That might be a piece of the puzzle, but I certainly assume that you monitor / maintain good vitamin D levels since you are very familiar with Dr. Peat.

How do you feel when you travel or go to remote places? Many people with allergies and sensitivities get almost full relief of their symptoms when away from their environment. That might be another piece of the puzzle.

Stay marvelous.

Elie Z.

 

[Smelly5]

thank you. what dose and frequency of famotidine is the low dose to which you refer? i was experimenting with 20 mg twice per day for just a day and a half and not working for my intestine/digestion. the excipients are horrible so tried dissolving it in water to remove for third dose - still feel off. maybe i took too much but chose that does based on a friend who takes 25 mg twice daily for years with allegra and has had life altering relief from her sensitivities which were triggered by hormones after childbirth- makes sense. decreasing stomach acid is not really desirable for me- i think i need all that i have so a bit stumped as to how to proceed.

Cypro I usually take inbetween 0.25mg and 1mg.

Famotidine usually 10-20mg.
I found the brand I bought in Bulgaria works much better. The brands I've bought from Amazon or prescription in Australia almost seems half potency as far as how noticeable the benefits are.
For example, I would need to take 20mg of the Amazon sourced brand (Pepcid) to feel the same as 10mg of the OTC Bulgarian brand. Don't know if this is related to exipients or something else.
Ive taken up to 60mg but notice drowsiness and inability to think clearly and the benefits don't seem to be much better.

 

[Advocate2021]

Have you considered some sort of hypnosis? I am familiar with your story and it does feel like something is "stuck" there.

You are so right about the Band-Aids. They are meant to get someone out of learned helplessness onto better horizons. Have you also checked your PTH? I work in dialysis and patients with the highest PTHs seem to have the worst allergies. That might be a piece of the puzzle, but I certainly assume that you monitor / maintain good vitamin D levels since you are very familiar with Dr. Peat.

How do you feel when you travel or go to remote places? Many people with allergies and sensitivities get almost full relief of their symptoms when away from their environment. That might be another piece of the puzzle.

Stay marvelous.

Elie Z.

Thank you. i have tried hypnosis- did wonders for my sense of self love and nothing for the sensitivities which i really feel are of physiological origin. I am also familiar with the retraining the brain program which addresses limbic imparirment and might just do it. i chose hypnosis after asking dr. Peat and he thought hypnosis was valid but the other not. i maintain good D Levels- even tried to go higher when it came back at 61 a year ago. i did not have PTH tested last draw a few weeks ago but its always been good. D level was slightly under 50 this time because as an experiment i took a break from all supplements including D for a couple weeks to see if sensitivities would be better and no help plus started bringing my always excellent D level down but sure its back up again as had only declined to 47 and im back on 15000 IU's sublingual for the last 3 to 4 weeks. Traveling can actually be a nightmare for me because i am at the mercy of other environments- hotels airbnbs etc. i use zero chemicals and have a 1200 dollar blu air chemical filter air purifier running 24 7. i live in a bubble and as soon as i leave I react to everything. unfortunately, as i have been a bit nomadic these last years due to my work and the state of the planet, I am no grounded in my own home and even though my current space is good, the building that contains it is awful with tons of chemical contamination so not ideal. I tried to look at it from a positive spiritual perspective- that the universe wants me to find an answer to this issue so put me in a place that constantly tests me so that i dont get too complacent in my bubble which is obviously not really the cure for the issue lol

 

[Advocate2021]

Cypro I usually take inbetween 0.25mg and 1mg.

Famotidine usually 10-20mg.
I found the brand I bought in Bulgaria works much better. The brands I've bought from Amazon or prescription in Australia almost seems half potency as far as how noticeable the benefits are.
For example, I would need to take 20mg of the Amazon sourced brand (Pepcid) to feel the same as 10mg of the OTC Bulgarian brand. Don't know if this is related to exipients or something else.
Ive taken up to 60mg but notice drowsiness and inability to think clearly and the benefits don't seem to be much better.

and the decline in stomach acid does not effect you negatively? just seems to me that those of us that do not have the over acid production would not benefit from lowering adequate acid production. I also feel that it did something to my liver area- maybe the excipients- as when i have been exposed to something toxic i often develop a sensation in that area which i experienced yesterday after taking it for a day and a half. On another thread, Mito said that he did not believe famotidine is water soluble meaning dissolving it would simply allow it to settle to the bottom with all of the bad excipients. if this is true there is no way to remove them from these toxic preparations of the drug available otc. wondering if the prescription form from a doc is any better?

 

[Advocate2021]

Just found this on line so guess we cant get excipients out of pepcid by dissolving in warm water arghhh: Famotidine is a white to pale yellow crystalline compound that is freely soluble in glacial acetic acid, slightly soluble in methanol, very slightly soluble in water, and practically insoluble in ethanol.

even the prescription versions i looked up are horrid re excipients- they pretty much outweigh the benefit of the drug in my opinion. Jessie above recommended a pure source. i wont try it again until i secure a pure source- it really made me sick and i suspect it was from the excipients which based upon this seems we cannot extract ourselves.

 

[exile]

What an amazing experience you had with a substance that utterly flattened me. Famotidine messed up my stomach acid (or so it seems) for weeks afterwards. I felt horrible and and I didn't balance my stomach again for what seems like over a month. It would be great if it was just the excipients and not the famotidine, but I'm not going to try it again any time soon.

The lowering of the stomach acid is why I’d never touch famotidine. Unless you actually have high stomach acid it doesn’t seem worth it to me and even then it’s likely just a cope for a problem instead of a fix.

 

[David PS]

I always thought NAC had good antihistamine properties when I used it years ago. For some reason Ray never looked upon it favourably. Do we know why?

This is the best I could find (for now). Haidut provides 2 reasons based on Dr Peat's statements. My thougt is that the dose is the poison. I do not take much NAC and I do not take it everyday.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmC6qJ_IINo&t=3317s

 

[Advocate2021]

The lowering of the stomach acid is why I’d never touch famotidine. Unless you actually have high stomach acid it doesn’t seem worth it to me and even then it’s likely just a cope for a problem instead of a fix.

Just 3 doses and stopped- definitely has hit my digestive track with a torpedo. I really wanted to give this a try because my friend has had such remarkable results with it and she takes 25 mg with her Allegra twice a day I think she's been doing it for years and I only took it one morning one evening and another morning and I am just there's just no way I could continue this it's just wreaking havoc on my digestive system hopefully having done it just three times it will recover quickly but I just can't imagine taking this stuff for like a long term I mean it's just doesn't make sense for someone that had good digestion to ruin their stomach acid production with this stuff to get some other effect while meanwhile they're destroying their digestive system even though I do feel that I experienced the improved glycogen storage cuz I wasn't getting very hungry I still feel like I'm retaining that from the three doses that I took even though I haven't taken it in over 24 hours now maybe it stays in your system a little longer but I just can't see taking this stuff plus the excipients are just horrifying I'm afraid to even get any of them that could have been what has caused this problem for me as well but yeah I tried it but I can't do it so I don't know what's next now for me to try to get this chemical sensitivity under control I was just around someone that was wearing I guess cologne and we were even outside and I had very strong reaction to it so I'm just right back to where I started

 

[Mossy]

what dose, frequency and for how long did you take the famotidine before stopping? what brand and did you dissolve in warm water?

I took one 20mg dose, of Walgreen's brand. I did not dissolve it in water, but took the pill whole.

 

[Smelly5]

and the decline in stomach acid does not effect you negatively? just seems to me that those of us that do not have the over acid production would not benefit from lowering adequate acid production. I also feel that it did something to my liver area- maybe the excipients- as when i have been exposed to something toxic i often develop a sensation in that area which i experienced yesterday after taking it for a day and a half. On another thread, Mito said that he did not believe famotidine is water soluble meaning dissolving it would simply allow it to settle to the bottom with all of the bad excipients. if this is true there is no way to remove them from these toxic preparations of the drug available otc. wondering if the prescription form from a doc is any better?

My understanding is that if you are taking it in doses 20mg and below, the lowering of stomach acid is negligible.
I could be wrong but I think if you're increasing your intake of acidic things like OJ, Coffee, Pineapple it would help balance the lowering of acidity from the Famotidine.

I haven't had any digestive issues from taking it for 2x months 20mg a day, but I do think like everything it shouldn't be taken long term.
I'm only taking it occasionally now.

For me, Cypro is the one that seems to make my digestion sluggish and lean towards constipation.

 

[Advocate2021]

My understanding is that if you are taking it in doses 20mg and below, the lowering of stomach acid is negligible.
I could be wrong but I think if you're increasing your intake of acidic things like OJ, Coffee, Pineapple it would help balance the lowering of acidity from the Famotidine.

I haven't had any digestive issues from taking it for 2x months 20mg a day, but I do think like everything it shouldn't be taken long term.
I'm only taking it occasionally now.

For me, Cypro is the one that seems to make my digestion sluggish and lean towards constipation.

But it is prescribed and advertised for the purpose of lowering stomach acid for acid reflux, ulcers etc with 10 mg being regular strength and 20 mg being max strength so would seem that it lowers stomach acid significantly since that is its primary mechanism in commerce. I took a 20 mg tablet morning, 12 hrs later evening and 12 hrs later in morning- total of 3 times and it did not agree with me. it could have been the excipients which are horrid and evidently inseparable since famotidine is not very water soluble - hard to know. only way to test would be to get completely pure famotidine and try again but i will never take the readily available version again- intestine still recovering and has been over 48 hours since the third trial dose i took,.

i actually have a prescription for cyproheptadine and looked that up for inactive ingredients. not great but not nearly as offensive as the famotidine otc and prescription verfsions. But probably should pay the money and switch to idealabs cyproheptadine. would be great if idealabs could come up with a famotidine as well.

Cyproheptadine hydrochloride USP is available for oral administration in 4 mg tablets. Inactive ingredients include: lactose monohydrate, magnesium stearate, microcrystalline cellulose, and sodium starch glycolate. Cyproheptadine is a serotonin and histamine antagonist with anticholinergic and sedative effects.

 

[Overton]

Interesting thread, with ketotifen it seems mostly available as eyedrops (eg Zaditor). Are people taking that orally, and if so any idea on dosing the drops?

 

[Advocate2021]

Interesting thread, with ketotifen it seems mostly available as eyedrops (eg Zaditor). Are people taking that orally, and if so any idea on dosing the drops?

im looking at this as well and contemplating yet the next experiment. this one seems to be especially focused on mast cell deregulation so hopeful. looked up the oral- not as offensive as famotadine preparations but not perfect. key is to know if its water soluble and we can remove excipients by dissolving it in water.

ketotifen oral ingredients

Composition: each tablet contains: active substance: ketotifen (as ketotifen fumarate) – 1 mg; excipients: microcrystalline cellulose (E-460), croscarmellose sodium (E-468), magnesium stearate (E-470), anhydrous colloidal silicon dioxide (E-551), lactose monohydrate.

 

[Advocate2021]

1) probably cant get rid of excipients in cyproheptadine tablets:​

Cyproheptadine hydrochloride is a white to slightly yellowish, crystalline solid, with a molecular weight of 350.88, which is slightly soluble in water, ...

same with ketofenin arghh:

2) Ketotifen fumarate | 34580-14-8 - ChemicalBook​

https://www.chemicalbook.com › ... › CAS DataBase List


Dec 21, 2022 — Ketotifen fumarate Properties ; Sparingly soluble in water, slightly soluble in methanol, very slightly soluble in acetonitrile. · neat · White to .

So unless we can find pure sources for these, we have excipient issue. Same with 3) Famotadine and to lesser extent 4) benadryl but the benadryl i have that is a powder inside capsule is the least offensive with just lactose and starch as the only 2 excipients in the powder once poured out of the capsule shell. Plus diphenydramine is water soluble so those can easily be separated out.

Diphenhydramine Hydrochloride | 147-24-0 - ChemicalBook​

https://www.chemicalbook.com › ... › CAS DataBase List


Diphenhydramine Hydrochloride Properties ; 2-8°C · Very soluble in water, freely soluble in alcohol. · Crystalline Powder or Adhering Crystals · White · pH(100g/L,

So purest is diphenydramine but lacks some of the therapeutic advantages of the others as pointed out here. i think next i am going to try ketofinen and see if i can find a pure source.

 

[Overton]

im looking at this as well and contemplating yet the next experiment. this one seems to be especially focused on mast cell deregulation so hopeful. looked up the oral- not as offensive as famotadine preparations but not perfect. key is to know if its water soluble and we can remove excipients by dissolving it in water.

ketotifen oral ingredients

Composition: each tablet contains: active substance: ketotifen (as ketotifen fumarate) – 1 mg; excipients: microcrystalline cellulose (E-460), croscarmellose sodium (E-468), magnesium stearate (E-470), anhydrous colloidal silicon dioxide (E-551), lactose monohydrate.

Yes the lower anticholinergic of Ketotifen got my attention and would be great if can be dissolved without excipients (edit: seems like a no based on your latest). It does seem oral is prescription only so that's also an issue for me.

Would be interesting to hear how it goes, good luck with the experiments!

 

[Advocate2021]

Yes the lower anticholinergic of Ketotifen got my attention and would be great if can be dissolved without excipients (edit: seems like a no based on your latest). It does seem oral is prescription only so that's also an issue for me.

Would be interesting to hear how it goes, good luck with the experiments!

i started to research this aspect but am new to it- never looked at it before. can you explain the anticholinergic concept and when and under what circumstances a person would want to steer away from this effect? is it also dose dependent and in smaller doses below the norm might not be triggered? What is the pecking order of these four drugs with respect to anticholinergic properties and when would a person actually want this property , for what conditions?

 

[Advocate2021]

If anyone has input on pure sources for these drugs without excipients, please advise.

Cyproheptadine we can get from idealabs in pure form and i will probably do that.

Jessie above gave a source for famotidine. any others?

diphenydramine?

ketofinen?

Thank you.

 

[bloooeh]

If anyone has input on pure sources for these drugs without excipients, please advise.

Cyproheptadine we can get from idealabs in pure form and i will probably do that.

Jessie above gave a source for famotidine. any others?

diphenydramine?

ketofinen?

Thank you.

You can look at Japanese pharmacies. However, ingredients in ketotifen aren't great (SLS, carnauba wax, etc). Some doesn't have the ingredient list. Anyways, here are 2 links you can check and research:

Buy effective allergy medicine from Japan online at special discounted price. - Japan Health Center

Effective certified allergy medicine from Japan for adults and children. Buy online at special discounted price with delivery to your home address.

bio-japan.net

List of Items｜Natural Pharmacy

List of Items

www.mimaki-family-japan.com

 

[Overton]

i started to research this aspect but am new to it- never looked at it before. can you explain the anticholinergic concept and when and under what circumstances a person would want to steer away from this effect? is it also dose dependent and in smaller doses below the norm might not be triggered? What is the pecking order of these four drugs with respect to anticholinergic properties and when would a person actually want this property , for what conditions?

I haven't gone that much into it TBH, but I just got curious while in this thread and saw this discussed in a similar thread here:

Cyproheptadine Vs Ketotifen Vs Clemastine

I have tried both cyproheptadine and ketotifen for managing (overheating, excessive sweating, high pulse, anxiety, etc) and found them to be surprisingly different, given their chemical similarity. I've taken 500mcg of Cyproheptadine twice a day. The Ketotifen was less than 100mcg also...

raypeatforum.com

Ketotifen's anti-cholinergic effect is nearly nothing. Way way small.

Anti-cholinergics make you stupid, irritable, and dry. Not good for anxiety at all, only reason some people associate it with that is because it nearly always comes with anti-histamine effects and ion channel blocking.

Ketotifen is probably better.

 

[Advocate2021]

Another observation that I have of my own experience is that my symptoms are always worse on the left side than the right side which makes me think endorphins are involved because Dr Pete used to talk about that that if you have one-sided symptoms it's a indication of endorphins and he used to recommend Naltrexone for that so I'm wondering if that could also help with sensitivities for people if they're having one sided symptoms so weird like my eye will always tear like crazy on the left side my sinus on my left side is where I get the worst symptoms it hurts the most it's very much more pronounced on the left side if anyone has any input on this thank you I'm very interested