Does raising gaba lower dopamine?

[Sapien]

“In mouse research, upon activation of GABA neurons in the VTA, a strong inhibitory effect was reported on the rate of firing in DA neurons. In contrast, following GABA neuron inhibition, a disinhibition or increase of dopamine was witnessed. These findings indicate that firstly, GABA activation could be associated with dopamine suppression” - Link

Is GABA anti dopamine?

 

[brightside]

Yes and No. GABA at the VTA is inhibitory, but you don’t want VTA hyperactivity. Increasing GABA can be associated with relaxation and pleasure, but its often also associated with mental retardation. Its all about context, quantity and location.

If you are asking, is gaba = less pleasure, then its still not obvious, since gabaergic activity from xanax can feel good but a complete block on the VTA obviously won’t.

The gabaergic brake on the VTA is important. Excess dopamine isnt good, and it will put you into psychosis and demolish your neurons. The VTA is really complex, especially in the way it sends signals. Not only can they be tonic or phasic but they way they are stimulated also matters. GABA can be co-released with dopamine/glutamine and that can give more precise signals, transferring more information.

So to answer your question, not really. Its not as simple as gaba = calm, and dopamine = pleasure or motivation

 

[Motorneuron]

@brightside Lithium seems to help me when I have High Dopamine symptoms, what else can help in these cases of excessive psychotic / paranoid / obsessive state?

 

[LastingJoy]

@brightside Lithium seems to help me when I have High Dopamine symptoms, what else can help in these cases of excessive psychotic / paranoid / obsessive state?

Hi, in my experience more sun exposure, less masturbation, more good red meat, very good organs, less sugar, deeper and longer sleep, can highly reduce, if not totally eliminate an excessive psychotic / paranoid / obsessive state

 

[Motorneuron]

@LastingJoy But is the state you refer to due to a high dopaminergic receptor density and/or a high amount of dopamine to be disposed of? because not masturbating and sunlight might make it worse I think

 

[LastingJoy]

@LastingJoy But is the state you refer to due to a high dopaminergic receptor density and/or a high amount of dopamine to be disposed of? because not masturbating and sunlight might make it worse I think

I didn't refer to any of these theoretical states, I was referring to a state that you are in, and can feel, from my experience less masturbation and sunlight are things that potentially reduce "excessive psychotic / paranoid / obsessive state".

If I am speculating, too much estradiol and or too much estradiol relative to your testosterone, or progesterone, or DHT levels can lead to an "excessive psychotic / paranoid / obsessive state".

You have mentioned in the past that you are prone to symptoms that seem to be associated with what I have mentioned, such as "manboobs" when exposed to certain substances, so I would recommend that you consider this perspective further.

 

[Motorneuron]

@LastingJoy
What you say about the effect of androgens but also estrogens is really interesting and true because a high dopaminergic state could be confused with a high DHT state...but I repeat, they correlate to each other

If it were purely hormonal perhaps from a topical use of hormones at the scrotal level, is there any solution to drain the effect or do we just have to wait for the half-life to end?

 

[LastingJoy]

@LastingJoy
What you say about the effect of androgens but also estrogens is really interesting and true because a high dopaminergic state could be confused with a high DHT state...but I repeat, they correlate to each other

If it were purely hormonal perhaps from a topical use of hormones at the scrotal level, is there any solution to drain the effect or do we just have to wait for the half-life to end?

I didn't understand this part

 

[Motorneuron]

@LastingJoy
if the dopaminergic effect is due to hormones what can we do?

 

[LastingJoy]

@LastingJoy
if the dopaminergic effect is due to hormones what can we do?

In theory, I would speculate to reduce the production of estradiol so that it does not rise too high, potentially more minerals and more vitamins such as (B1, B2, zinc, selenium, potassium, vitamin A/D/K2 ... etc),

in practice, less sugar (including honey, maple syrup etc), more excellent organs and red meat, more excellent fruits if the person wants to eat more sweet foods, less masturbation, deeper and longer sleep, more sunshine.

 

[Motorneuron]

@LastingJoy@LastingJoy How can I preserve testosterone and avoid physiological drop when training heavily? I seem to remember bromelain having this property...in any case personally when I could train heavily I preferred less frequent workouts and overcompensate during the week...I'm speaking as a "natural".

 

[Mauritio]

“In mouse research, upon activation of GABA neurons in the VTA, a strong inhibitory effect was reported on the rate of firing in DA neurons. In contrast, following GABA neuron inhibition, a disinhibition or increase of dopamine was witnessed. These findings indicate that firstly, GABA activation could be associated with dopamine suppression” - Link

Is GABA anti dopamine?

Yes to a degree.
Gaba is inhibitory and dopamine is excitatory . The goal is to find the sweet spot between those two. The balance.

That's why I like to stack something dopaminergic with something gabaergic. Or use substances that activate both gaba and dopamine receptors, like 5aDHP.
That gives you the calm, but focused state of mind.

The thing is that raising GABA and dopamine is both healthy.
Gaba is healthy inhibition, serotonin is unhealthy inhibition.
Dopamine is healthy excitation , glutamate is unhealthy excitation.

I would only see an issue in your scenario if you opposed dopamine with serotonin.
In your case you inhibit something healthy with another healthy thing.

Also keep in mind that there are times of the day where you usually want a higher dopaminergic tone (from morning to afternoon), and other times where for most people a higher gabaergic tone would be preferable (evening and night).

If you look at the evolutionary function of dopamine it makes total sense that it inhibits dopamine, to a degree.
Since it's the major neurotransmitter for drive and motivation.
In a stone age setting, If you see food, you want to be active and get it ASAP, so nobody else takes it before you. For that you need excitation and that's what dopamine is for. Dopamine knock out animals literally starve to death with food right in front of them. That scenario encapsulates the drive part of dopamine quite well .

If you want to know more about that I can recommend Dr. Hubermans episode on dopamine.

 

[Motorneuron]

 

[LastingJoy]

@LastingJoy@LastingJoy How can I preserve testosterone and avoid physiological drop when training heavily? I seem to remember bromelain having this property...in any case personally when I could train heavily I preferred less frequent workouts and overcompensate during the week...I'm speaking as a "natural".

Hi, in my experience in most cases the desire to train heavily is already associated with a state in wich you tend to "excessive psychotic / paranoid / obsessive state" at least to some degree, it is associated with a certain insecurity and dissatisfaction when it comes to the person's mental and physical state, so I recommend approaching an optimal physiognomic state in wich people feel satisfaction and appreciation of themselves regardless of whether their muscles are swollen and round or not;

In most cases, training heavily and having more swollen and round muscles will not increase the satisfaction and quietude of the person, and quite often it will decrease it even more because it is quite draining to train heavily, and that the person was already tending to this specific first state i mentionned above.

In my experience everything I mentioned above is positive to be less negatively affected by the training and recover much faster.

 

[brightside]

@brightside Lithium seems to help me when I have High Dopamine symptoms, what else can help in these cases of excessive psychotic / paranoid / obsessive state?

I generally try to approach the topic with a perspective of: provide all the supplies, let the body make its own decisions. So I would say, anything that can boost GABA, such as adequate b6 and protein. Magnesium, extra salt, and niacinamide are also a smart choice. You can also focus on the clearance of dopamine, and make sure that you have enough methyl (SAMe) for COMT to work properly. The methylation cycle will also stimulate dopamine, so there's that.

Personally, I've had excess dopamine a number of times. It usually requires two things, iron deficiency, and magnesium deficiency. When I add iron I get symptoms such as paranoia (become terrified of the dark), intrusive thoughts (feel like I'm blasted with a megaphone in my mind), mild peripheral hallucinations, and feel really weird and off and less in control of my actions. I think its a sort of rebound effect with the iron, because if I take it normally, I don't feel much different. So I think I need to be in deficiency for a while to achieve this effect. Either way, just 100-200mg of magnesium usually completely kills the symptoms for me, and after that, I'm fine. Lithium works in a similar way to magnesium, so it makes sense they both helped us.

Are you on top of your magnesium, B vitamin, and zinc status?