Fruit and protein eaten together - good? bad?, evidence please.

[trinity]

A couple of threads discuss eating fruit and protein together but they get sidetracked and don't answer the question of whether this combo is good or not. I think Ray believes it is good however I can't find where he says this. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Also what is the biological mechanism behind the benefits of the combo and does anyone have any references to studies to back it up?
Thanks in advance.

 

[LucH]

Hi,
Eating protein alone will bring a spike in insulin. Without glucose, it's stressfull.
The combo isn't deleterious if you don't heat protein with sugar inside (cake) above 120-130° C. Bring some vinegar or citrus juice to stabilize asparagine.

 

[trinity]

Hi,
Eating protein alone will bring a spike in insulin. Without glucose, it's stressfull.
The combo isn't deleterious if you don't heat protein with sugar inside (cake) above 120-130° C. Bring some vinegar or citrus juice to stabilize asparagine.
View attachment 61014

Thanks LucH.
So fruit eaten with protein prevents insulin spike which is good. By stress do you mean a rise in cortisol? Did Ray have anything to say about this? Just want to get my head around the biological mechanism.
Does anyone have any references they can direct me to?

 

[LucH]

By stress do you mean a rise in cortisol?

Yes. lack of fuel for direct use (for ATP) enhances a reaction from adrenaline and cortisol afterwards if you lack glycogen (in a normal situation). But how is your liver going to function ? (fatty liver for most people at 40s)
We don't need much glucose to avoid the problem. 20 gr glucose is enough. But this not optimal. It depends on your objectives / target.
Explanation:
When blood sugar is low, adrenaline is released and mobilizes glucose in reserve, stored in the liver and muscle tissues (glycogen). If the glycogen is low or has been impoverished (fasting night), the fuel needs will be encountered by releasing free fatty acids in place (FFA), and therefore the energy needs (glucose) will be provided via the secretion of cortisol in order to break our own fabric (degenerative catabolism) ... and this action will also induce an elevation of the level of estrogens. If you are not in subregime (that’s to say a metabolism slowed down by hypothyroidism or burn out), it should go through without noticing a problem ...

 

[74one]

A couple of threads discuss eating fruit and protein together but they get sidetracked and don't answer the question of whether this combo is good or not. I think Ray believes it is good however I can't find where he says this. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Also what is the biological mechanism behind the benefits of the combo and does anyone have any references to studies to back it up?
Thanks in advance.

To avoid stomach bloating you should eat fruits 15 - 30 min before or after protein rich meal - never together, but starchy food and protein rich food can be eaten together to mitigate cortisol

 

[trinity]

Your replies are helpful, valued and appreciated. Many thanks.

 

[dukesbobby777]

Fruit and protein should be close to ideal from a Peat perspective, but the minefield of 'food combining' will always come into play, in that some foods eaten within a certain time period of other foods will be absolutely disastrous.

I remember in my early Peating days trying to combine dairy with things like mango and having sharp stabbing pains in my gut. Its all trial and error.

Protein is difficult to combine with fruit because one digests slowly and one is more rapid.

 

[LucH]

Protein is difficult to combine with fruit because one digests slowly and one is more rapid.

We can avoid this problem by eating fruit 20' before the rest (when there is no dysbiosis).
First fibers, then meat with fat, and last "carbs" to optimize digestion and avoid insulin spike.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

A couple of threads discuss eating fruit and protein together but they get sidetracked and don't answer the question of whether this combo is good or not. I think Ray believes it is good however I can't find where he says this. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Also what is the biological mechanism behind the benefits of the combo and does anyone have any references to studies to back it up?
Thanks in advance.

Ray says it is best to balance proteins with a sugar source to keep blood sugar levels from crashing with just protein, especially eggs. He said it is good to eat a piece of fruit about 15 minutes before eating to turn on digestion…

Rinse & rePeat:
“Good morning Dr. Peat, I hope the day finds you well! When do you think is the best time to consume eggs? Because of the sleepy tryptophan in the egg whites and their “powerful protein”. that you say needs a lot of sugar to balance, I would think they would be most beneficial at night . On the other hand you don’t recommend proteins at night, for better sleep, so maybe they are a better daytime food?”

RAY PEAT:
“Having only one egg per meal, with plenty of juice, there is seldom a problem. Blood sugar is more stable in the middle of the day.“

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Hi,
Eating protein alone will bring a spike in insulin. Without glucose, it's stressfull.
The combo isn't deleterious if you don't heat protein with sugar inside (cake) above 120-130° C. Bring some vinegar or citrus juice to stabilize asparagine.
View attachment 61014

“One of the reasons that the single meal eaters tend to get fat and diabetic, is that it triggers a great surge of insulin, and the insulin then triggers cortisol. If you can eat foods that don’t trigger insulin, that’s the ideal thing. And fruit happens to be the best single type of food for not triggering the stress reactions, because it combines very small amounts of protein, with large amounts of sugar and minerals. Potassium happens to handle sugar in place of insulin, and the fructose component of fruit doesn’t require insulin. So, eating a lot of fruit, even at one meal a day, produces much smaller amounts of insulin, obesity, and cortisol, than eating, for example, just one big meal of meat and potatoes. Meat powerfully stimulates insulin and cortisol. And starches are more stimulating to insulin than sugars.” -Ray Peat

 

[trinity]

Great information everyone. Much appreciated.

So, what I understand from this is have my oj around 20 minutes before I eat my scrambled eggs for breakfast and eat dessert (lets say a fruit salad and ice cream) before i tuck into my steak and potatoes for dinner.

Right?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Great information everyone. Much appreciated.

So, what I understand from this is have my oj around 20 minutes before I eat my scrambled eggs for breakfast and eat dessert (lets say a fruit salad and ice cream) before i tuck into my steak and potatoes for dinner.

Right?

Fruit before steak, but ice cream I would eat alone, as it is too much fat for one meal.

 

[trinity]

Fruit before steak, but ice cream I would eat alone, as it is too much fat for one meal.

I always knew there was something in the timing and combination of food groups to optimize health.

Wonder if anyone has an infograph.

Thanks for the quick response....you Aussie?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I always knew there was something in the timing and combination of food groups to optimize health.

Wonder if anyone has an infograph.

Thanks for the quick response....you Aussie?

i think the pairing and layering has been a big key to my success on my Peat inspired diet. I created the thread on this subject three years ago…

Food Layering & Better Digestion

There is a lot of talk on food "pairing" whilst "Peating", but I am finding that food "layering" is a step worth taking farther. With digestion function being the biggest player in how successful we are at being healthy it makes sense to think about these things. Things like having my honeycomb...

raypeatforum.com

Oh and I am from California!

 

[trinity]

i think the pairing and layering has been a big key to my success on my Peat inspired diet. I created the thread on this subject three years ago…

Food Layering & Better Digestion

There is a lot of talk on food "pairing" whilst "Peating", but I am finding that food "layering" is a step worth taking farther. With digestion function being the biggest player in how successful we are at being healthy it makes sense to think about these things. Things like having my honeycomb...

raypeatforum.com

Oh and I am from California!

Excellent! looking forward to reading that thread.

 

[LucH]

So, what I understand from this is have my oj around 20 minutes before I eat my scrambled eggs for breakfast and eat dessert (lets say a fruit salad and ice cream) before i tuck into my steak and potatoes for dinner.

You should get informed over glycemic load.

GL (glycemic Load) is for the whole menu (in once). you could change GL by introducing e.g. coconut fat and an egg yolk in your smashed potato.
I add 150 g frozen broccoli (cut in pieces after 5' with a sharp kitchen knife).

See the insuline spike of yaourt / yoghurt (in red); not always the same as glycemic spike.
See the insulin level with an icecream (blue flash).
An as R&RP said, when I eat some carbs, I add some potassium (potassium citrate) with my meal: Twice 900 mg K citrate gel. (or 1/4 tsp powder)..
Potassium helps. Potassium helps manage blood sugar. Less insulin is required to do the same work, bringing glucose into the cell. But beware of the overall load.
And we manage easily the whole thing with some magnesium added. We are often to short. 420 mg target. => 2x 1/2 tsp of bisglycinate Mg powder.

 

[trinity]

You should get informed over glycemic load.
View attachment 61211
GL (glycemic Load) is for the whole menu (in once). you could change GL by introducing e.g. coconut fat and an egg yolk in your smashed potato.
I add 150 g frozen broccoli (cut in pieces after 5' with a sharp kitchen knife).

View attachment 61212
See the insuline spike of yaourt / yoghurt (in red); not always the same as glycemic spike.
See the insulin level with an icecream (blue flash).
An as R&RP said, when I eat some carbs, I add some potassium (potassium citrate) with my meal: Twice 900 mg K citrate gel. (or 1/4 tsp powder)..
Potassium helps. Potassium helps manage blood sugar. Less insulin is required to do the same work, bringing glucose into the cell. But beware of the overall load.
And we manage easily the whole thing with some magnesium added. We are often to short. 420 mg target. => 2x 1/2 tsp of bisglycinate Mg powder.

Thanks LucH,
So you add Potassium and magnesium to your meals? or do you take separately?

 

[LucH]

So you add Potassium and magnesium to your meals? or do you take separately?

It depends on the molecules associated. With citrates your do what you want (with a meal or not).
With bisglycinate, it's advised to take it with some fat, so a meal is required. But if I forget to take my bisglycinate Mg (one of the best absorbed form), I take it anyway. Not so well assimilated in the last case. By the way, we often lack glycine with the kind of meat we eat (no longer present).
Useful info:
There is almost no more meat in the form of offal or with gelatin.
Glycine tempers the excitative effects of tryptophan and methionine. Methionine is a very abundant amino acid in protein -rich foods such as meats, fish, eggs or dairy products. Glycine controls the expression of IGF-1, a growth hormone.
Source (in French): Longévité : le rôle de la méthionine et de la glycine se précise – Julien Venesson
Excerpt 1:
Glycine allows our growth hormones to be high enough to allow healing, growth and longevity while preventing them from being too high and promoting cancer and degeneration. (17)
(17) Guan J, Gluckman P, Yang P, Krissansen G, Sun X, Zhou Y, Wen J, Phillips G, Shorten PR, McMahon CD, Wake GC, Chan WH, Thomas MF, Ren A, Moon S, Liu DX. Cyclic glycine-proline regulates IGF-1 homeostasis by altering the binding of IGFBP-3 to IGF-1. Sci Rep. 2014 Mar 17;4:4388.

You can find enough glycine in collagen supplement (powder) or in bone broth. See Rinse & rePeat. Well illustrated
When I eat chicken I keep the wings (with a little meat therefore) and the skin. Better than with bones (histamine released). Better cooked with a double pot, like Koreans.
I add some bones from my lamb chops any way.
Excerpt 2:
Glycine inhibitory effects
Gelatin, stress, longevity
Glycine's inhibitory effects appear to oppose estrogen's actions generally, in sensory and motor nerves, in regulating angiogenesis, and in modulating the cytokines and "chemokines" that are involved in so many inflammatory and degenerative diseases, especially tumor necrosis factor (TNF), nitric oxide (NO), and prostaglandins.