Glycine side effects. Could someone explain?

[UG Krishnamurti]

After experimenting with glycine last night (1g in OJ) I've heard a LOUD screaming in my ear while I was sleeping. Woke me up and scared the sh*tout of me xd
Knew it was "in my head" because my extremely alert dog was sleeping.
I also woke up with extremely dry mouth, grogginess and fatigue.

The only time similar thing happened to me where I heard some voices while sleeping is I think when I was experimenting with either gelatin or GABAergic substances like some teas etc.

Is this the indicator for undermethylation or what is going on here? :)

 

[Elie]

try again tonight (perhaps for several nights) to see if this repeat itself to determine if it was the glycine for sure or just a "random" occurrence.

 

[StephanF]

Glycine made me anxious during the day. I stopped using it and I was fine. I don’t remember sleeping issues.

 

[Birdie]

Using a glycine supplement was a big trigger for an Irritable Bowel attack for me. It was not something I wanted to test again.

 

[redsun]

After experimenting with glycine last night (1g in OJ) I've heard a LOUD screaming in my ear while I was sleeping. Woke me up and scared the sh*tout of me xd
Knew it was "in my head" because my extremely alert dog was sleeping.
I also woke up with extremely dry mouth, grogginess and fatigue.

The only time similar thing happened to me where I heard some voices while sleeping is I think when I was experimenting with either gelatin or GABAergic substances like some teas etc.

Is this the indicator for undermethylation or what is going on here? :)

You are probably intolerant to glutamate enhancing substances. Gelatin is high in glycine, increasing NMDA activity, a major glutamate receptor. But you should try it again to know for sure.

 

[Korven]

You are probably intolerant to glutamate enhancing substances. Gelatin is high in glycine, increasing NMDA activity, a major glutamate receptor. But you should try it again to know for sure.

Do you know why some people experience the excitatory effects from glycine being a co-agonist at the NMDA receptor, while some people feel sedated from the inhibitory effects of glycine in the CNS?

When I take glycine I become sleepy and feel dumb and lazy. I enjoy this effect, but not when I have to be mentally sharp and perform for some test/examination. Also I can't take glycine before bed, because then I get insomnia. But if I take it during the day, my sleep improves. Glycine is weird.

 

[Birdie]

Individual amino acids are synthesized, and not as safe as amino acids in gelatin. Here is Ray with some Glycine info:

"... When estrogen is relatively high, tryptophan turns into serotonin and slows the thyroid, lowers the temperature. Glycine is the main anti-inflammatory amino acid, and it can normally be made in adequate amounts, but some proteins, especially muscle meats, don't have enough Glycine in relation to tryptophan.

Fruits and milk or cheese will usually provide a good balance of the main nutrients, but sometimes gelatin is very useful to balance the other proteins. .."

Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki

raypeatforum.com

 

[redsun]

Do you know why some people experience the excitatory effects from glycine being a co-agonist at the NMDA receptor, while some people feel sedated from the inhibitory effects of glycine in the CNS?

When I take glycine I become sleepy and feel dumb and lazy. I enjoy this effect, but not when I have to be mentally sharp and perform for some test/examination. Also I can't take glycine before bed, because then I get insomnia. But if I take it during the day, my sleep improves. Glycine is weird.

Its probably something related to the circadian rhythm and how it affects whether glycine makes it easier or harder to sleep. Some people get stimulated in general from glycine because they already have high glutamate activity or some downstream effect of NMDA activation is causing insomnia. Diet is also related to this. Genetics related to these receptors and activity of glutamate also would play a role.

 

[Phosphor]

I didn't notice that kind of thing from glycine (and I can have a wild dream state at times) --- but I got HUGE DARK circles under my eyes when I took it to try to get rid of glyphosate. I don't remember how much I was taking, but just by coincidence I read somewhere that that was a side effect of glycine. I stopped taking it and the dark circles went away in a couple weeks. I won't try THAT again, and I threw the stuff in the trash.

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

You are probably intolerant to glutamate enhancing substances. Gelatin is high in glycine, increasing NMDA activity, a major glutamate receptor. But you should try it again to know for sure.

That makes most sense. Do you have any pointers or to recommend some papers or books which explains the glutamate issue (Before I start exploring by myself)

 

[redsun]

That makes most sense. Do you have any pointers or to recommend some papers or books which explains the glutamate issue (Before I start exploring by myself)

You can read for weeks glutamate's role in many degenerative diseases or disorders. So its hard for me to pick and choose what you should read so I suggest you just learn about what concerns or interests you. If you do not have any of these disorders then you likely do not have excitotoxicity which is good. There's not that much you can do about high glutamate activity. Genetics are involved which affect our ability to make gaba from glutamate for example, leaving some with glutamate dominance. Those who are tend to be sensitive to MSG, glutamine supplements and the like. This is a good article with references about lowering and raising EAAT activity. EAATs are what remove glutamate from the synapse, so ideally if you want to lower glutamate activity, you want to increase EAAT activity.

Balancing Excitatory Amino Acid Transporter Activity — MyBioHack | Unlock Your Genetics

Controlling Excitatory Amino Acid Transporters (EAATs) activity is a novel way to reduce excitotoxicity (neuronal damage due to overactivity) in the brain

mybiohack.com

You mentioned undermethylation. If you think you may have undermethylation I would only try to do something about it if you have severe insomnia and really bad allergies. Otherwise its generally more beneficial to have it. Were you taking glycine for sleep I assume?

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

This is a good article with references about lowering and raising EAAT activity. EAATs are what remove glutamate from the synapse, so ideally if you want to lower glutamate activity, you want to increase EAAT activity.

Balancing Excitatory Amino Acid Transporter Activity — MyBioHack | Unlock Your Genetics

Controlling Excitatory Amino Acid Transporters (EAATs) activity is a novel way to reduce excitotoxicity (neuronal damage due to overactivity) in the brain

mybiohack.com

Thanks brother!

You mentioned undermethylation. If you think you may have undermethylation I would only try to do something about it if you have severe insomnia and really bad allergies. Otherwise its generally more beneficial to have it.

To be honest I don't really understand methylation - It's on my list to learn more about it. But I heard many times that if you have problems with glycine it could be methylation problem. Thanks!

Were you taking glycine for sleep I assume?

No I sleep very good. I used for other benefits mentioned by Ray and Georgi. Like:
-cell protective, wound healing, antitumor, kidney beneficial"
- "modulator of the cytokines and "chemokines" that are involved in so many inflammatory and degenerative diseases, especially tumor necrosis factor (TNF), nitric oxide (NO), and prostaglandins"
- "it's reasonable to consider using glycine/gelatin for almost any chronic problem."
- "gelatin solution to quickly control nosebleeds, excessive menstrual bleeding, bleeding ulcers (using three doses of 18 grams as a 10% solution during one day), and bleeding from hemorrhoids and the lower bowel, and hemorrhage from the bladder."
- "Skin cells and nerve cells and many other cells are “electrically” stabilized by glycine, "
- "glycine and alanine act protectively without being metabolized, simply by their physical properties."
- "Glycine's antispastic activity has been used to alleviate the muscle spasms of multiple sclerosis."
- "A recent publication shows that glycine alleviates colitis"
- "friends and relatives of had recovered from long-standing pain problems (arthritic and rheumatic and possibly neurological) in just a few days after taking 10 or 15 grams of gelatin each day."
- "In lungs, kidneys, liver, and other tissues, glycine protects against fibrosis,"
- "Glycine has a universal antiviral effect"
- "Glycine exerts renoprotective effects, but the mechanism remains unclear. Glycine is increasingly recognized as a factor that attenuates oxidative stress, a key mechanism underlying diabetic nephropathy."
- "glycine attenuated renal damage"
- "Fibrosis, free radical damage, inflammation, cell death from ATP depletion or calcium overload, mitochondrial damage, diabetes, etc., can be prevented or alleviated by glycine."

To be honest, never in my wildest dream have I thought that this kind of substance, with so many different benefits, would attract crazy ghost lady to scream in my ear while I sleep

 

[Sefton10]

I have a similar negative response to glycine. Massive increase in tinnitus and disturbed sleep. I put it down to glutamate.

 

[xeliex]

Chris Masterjohn has a couple of videos related to that topic.

For me, collagen used everyday without adequate meat or supplemental lysine gives me mouth sores. I think Mike Fave or Jay Feldman reported the same thing.

But Elie gives good advice above. Try again to establish a direct relation.


View: https://youtu.be/7ugZ5X7M2uE



View: https://youtu.be/lVzeqqQWNGo

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

Chris Masterjohn has a couple of videos related to that topic.

For me, collagen used everyday without adequate meat or supplemental lysine gives me mouth sores. I think Mike Fave or Jay Feldman reported the same thing.

But Elie gives good advice above. Try again to establish a direct relation.


View: https://youtu.be/7ugZ5X7M2uE



View: https://youtu.be/lVzeqqQWNGo

Thanks. I will watch that :)

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

I have a similar negative response to glycine. Massive increase in tinnitus and disturbed sleep. I put it down to glutamate.

Yeah. It's been third day and I would say my tinnitus is maybe slightly elevated but nothing drastic. When I take aspirin my tinnitus goes to 11/10 and this is not that bad. But there seems to be excessive wax buildup in my ears [which leads to clogging of my ears] and some puss around my eyes as well when I wake up.

It seems that this puss and wax constitution relies on glycine [or it's derivatives] for it's formation. It also seems to make defecating a more difficult endeavor.

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

Update after 6 days of using powdered glycine from bulk supplement.
I've reduced the glycine to 500mg and took it during the day in a smoothie. I didn't have any of the sleeping problems or hearing voices.

Problems still remain. It seems I cannot get enough sleep and I always feel tired and groggy when I wake up. Slightly less water retention after lowering the dose but still somewhat present. My eczema is getting worse and my skin is more dry. My nose is clogged. I feel noticeably more fatigued. My ears are more clogged and I have some pus coming out of my eyes (It seems like it is the same gelatin like substance which constitute glycine/gelatin). My eyes are also more dry. Also my nails are getting weirder.
The only positive from the supplement is having morning wood.

I don't feel like I should continue. I might try it one more time as soon as my skin calms down but I would use something like 100mg.
I've asked Ray about my struggles and he said:
"A large amount of any amino acid can interfere with protein synthesis." &
"Chemically pure substances are often disturbing to tissues."

 

[pineywoodrooter]

Update after 6 days of using powdered glycine from bulk supplement.
I've reduced the glycine to 500mg and took it during the day in a smoothie. I didn't have any of the sleeping problems or hearing voices.

Problems still remain. It seems I cannot get enough sleep and I always feel tired and groggy when I wake up. Slightly less water retention after lowering the dose but still somewhat present. My eczema is getting worse and my skin is more dry. My nose is clogged. I feel noticeably more fatigued. My ears are more clogged and I have some puss coming out of my eyes (It seems like it is the same gelatin like substance which constitute glycine/gelatin). My eyes are also more dry. Also my nails are getting weirder.
The only positive from the supplement is having morning wood.

I don't feel like I should continue. I might try it one more time as soon as my skin calms down but I would use something like 100mg.
I've asked Ray about my struggles and he said:
"A large amount of any amino acid can interfere with protein synthesis." &
"Chemically pure substances are often disturbing to tissues."

I tried the same glycine from Bulk this week. It interrupted my sleep every night, increased my anxiety, and gave me a little anhedonia.

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

I tried the same glycine from Bulk this week. It interrupted my sleep every night, increased my anxiety, and gave me a little anhedonia.

Yeah forgot to mention that. I do feel more down and generally more unhappy.

 

[Phosphor]

Um, if something is making you feel worse, stop taking it. I tried glycine to get glyphosate out, and what I got was deep dark circles under my eyes that made it look like I hadn't slept in months. I stopped taking it and in a couple weeks the big dark circles went away. Just because some expert says something is good, does not mean it is good for YOU with your unique biochemistry and history.