Goat milk better than cow's milk for endotoxin?

[Greyfox]

My fridge isn't working so I've been leaving the milk out on the counter. The regular pasteurised cow's milk has been going bad rather quickly. Lasts about 4-6 hours before it builds up that unappealing sour smell and a bit longer before it gets to that lumpy stage. I decided to buy goat milk instead and noticed it lasts waaaaay longer. Bought it yesterday evening and it's still drinkable now a day later. The only thing I can think that is causing this besides the differences in milk are the containers. The cow's milk is in a plastic see-through container and the goat milk is in a carton. I imagine the light participates in bacteria proliferation somewhat, but are there any inherent differences in the milk that would account for the shelf-life? If so, wouldn't goat milk be a superior form of dairy for people with bad digestion?

 

[Jennifer]

I imagine the light participates in bacteria proliferation somewhat, but are there any inherent differences in the milk that would account for the shelf-life? If so, wouldn't goat milk be a superior form of dairy for people with bad digestion?

Perhaps the amount of antibodies in the cow’s milk versus the goat’s milk, the cleanliness of their surroundings and milking practices/handling of the milk?

 

[Greyfox]

Perhaps the amount of antibodies in the cow’s milk versus the goat’s milk, the cleanliness of their surroundings and milking practices/handling of the milk?

Quite possibly. I never considered antibodies.
I definitely prefer the taste of goat milk. I know distributors in the uk are under no obligation to disclose harmful additives such as titanium dioxide in produce. the skimmed milk here tastes awful and synthetic so I can't drink low fat milk. Good milk is hard to find but this goat milk might actually be okay. Quite palatable and easy to digest.

 

[Jennifer]

Quite possibly. I never considered antibodies.
I definitely prefer the taste of goat milk. I know distributors in the uk are under no obligation to disclose harmful additives such as titanium dioxide in produce. the skimmed milk here tastes awful and synthetic so I can't drink low fat milk. Good milk is hard to find but this goat milk might actually be okay. Quite palatable and easy to digest.

It’s too bad good milk is hard to find there, but I’m glad you prefer the taste of the goat’s milk and find it easy to digest. I digested goat and A2 cow dairy far better than A1 cow dairy when my intestines were healing from SIBO induced gastritis.

 

[akgrrrl]

While I love love love my fresh goat milk delivered every week, I have a story for you.

In the 1960s I asked my grandpa why he put a tiny plate over his big glass of milk, pushed to the back of the countertop instead of the fridge. ( in hot Oklahoma summer.)
He replied that it was buttermilk, and he intended it for breakfast. Reaching into his pocket, he produced a silver dollar that he always carried. He plopped it into the glass and covered it. Next day, he would crumble leftover cornbread into the milk, adding sugar to taste. His favorite breakfast it turned out. The silver kept the bacteria from growing?

 

[Greyfox]

While I love love love my fresh goat milk delivered every week, I have a story for you.

In the 1960s I asked my grandpa why he put a tiny plate over his big glass of milk, pushed to the back of the countertop instead of the fridge. ( in hot Oklahoma summer.)
He replied that it was buttermilk, and he intended it for breakfast. Reaching into his pocket, he produced a silver dollar that he always carried. He plopped it into the glass and covered it. Next day, he would crumble leftover cornbread into the milk, adding sugar to taste. His favorite breakfast it turned out. The silver kept the bacteria from growing?

Yes!! Silver has antibacterial properties. You're so lucky to have someone in the family who practiced old school knowledge. I don't think people at large really know this about silver these days.

 

[Jennifer]

While I love love love my fresh goat milk delivered every week, I have a story for you.

In the 1960s I asked my grandpa why he put a tiny plate over his big glass of milk, pushed to the back of the countertop instead of the fridge. ( in hot Oklahoma summer.)
He replied that it was buttermilk, and he intended it for breakfast. Reaching into his pocket, he produced a silver dollar that he always carried. He plopped it into the glass and covered it. Next day, he would crumble leftover cornbread into the milk, adding sugar to taste. His favorite breakfast it turned out. The silver kept the bacteria from growing?

I’ve done that with silver flatware. :)

Here’s a crazy milk story. I met the farmer I buy my raw milk from at a farmers’ market and we had a conversation about cottage cheese. He told me that it was traditionally made by letting milk sour and curdle naturally on the counter so I tried it. I left a 2 liter jar of the raw milk out on the counter and after two weeks, it still hadn’t soured. I was going through my Ray Peat notes just now and found this email exchange an old peaty friend of mine had with Ray. He asked about the advantages of raw milk and Ray replied:

“It depends somewhat on the practices of the dairy and the cows’ diet. A dairy in southern Oregon used to display their raw milk at the annual county fair, and the owner bragged that he could leave the same bottles on display in the hot building during the whole fair week, while his competitors with pasteurized milk had to change the bottles daily, because of the visible spoilage. The antibodies in raw milk seem to suppress bacteria fairly efficiently. Several years ago I tried raw milk from a Eugene dairy, but it tended to sour the day I got it. It’s important for the cows to have clean surroundings.”

 

[Greyfox]

I’ve done that with silver flatware. :)

Here’s a crazy milk story. I met the farmer I buy my raw milk from at a farmers’ market and we had a conversation about cottage cheese. He told me that it was traditionally made by letting milk sour and curdle naturally on the counter so I tried it. I left a 2 liter jar of the raw milk out on the counter and after two weeks, it still hadn’t soured. I was going through my Ray Peat notes just now and found this email exchange an old peaty friend of mine had with Ray. He asked about the advantages of raw milk and Ray replied:

“It depends somewhat on the practices of the dairy and the cows’ diet. A dairy in southern Oregon used to display their raw milk at the annual county fair, and the owner bragged that he could leave the same bottles on display in the hot building during the whole fair week, while his competitors with pasteurized milk had to change the bottles daily, because of the visible spoilage. The antibodies in raw milk seem to suppress bacteria fairly efficiently. Several years ago I tried raw milk from a Eugene dairy, but it tended to sour the day I got it. It’s important for the cows to have clean surroundings.”

It's fascinating that the antibodies remain active after being outside of the cow for so long. That's the type of milk we should be drinking. It's hilarious how we alter the foods for "safety" with much worse results. They pasteurise the milk to burn out bacteria but the natural antibodies are much more effective. Nature provides. I wish raw milk was accessible. I bet it would turn around the global health crisis real fast.

 

[CastorTroy]

Bacteria is naturally present in raw milk and it posses part of its benefits. Maybe you meant antibodies prevent milk spoilage .by protecting it from exogenous bad bacteria. Without bacteria it would be no possible for the milk to turn into cheese, yogurt, kefir, etc.

 

[Greyfox]

Bacteria is naturally present in raw milk and it posses part of its benefits. Maybe you meant antibodies prevent milk spoilage .by protecting it from exogenous bad bacteria. Without bacteria it would be no possible for the milk to turn into cheese, yogurt, kefir, etc.

Yeah. I meant the bacteria that makes it smell foul and undrinkable. How is it the antibodies don't have an effect on the already existing bacteria in raw milk? Have they been selectively tagged as benign?

 

[cs3000]

wouldn't goat milk be a superior form of dairy for people with bad digestion?

Yeah my gut is in bad shape. i get pain & extra swelling from drinking cows milk
Tried goats milk recently after reading about the A2 casein instead of european cow A1 and i digest it way better (still not 100% hard to tell rn but noticeably better), basically tastes the same
Guernsey cows have majority A2. jersey cows have like 50/50 up to ~80% a2 , tried jersey milk and didnt digest well

 

[Greyfox]

Yeah my gut is in bad shape. i get pain & extra swelling from drinking cows milk
Tried goats milk recently after reading about the A2 casein instead of european cow A1 and i digest it way better (still not 100% hard to tell rn but noticeably better), basically tastes the same
Guernsey cows have majority A2. jersey cows have like 50/50 up to ~80% a2 , tried jersey milk and didnt digest well

I sympathise with your gut issues. It's not an easy problem to overcome. Have you tried antibiotics? haidut's defribron? I've noticed my gut was so bad that I couldn't really get much out of protein foods and have found decent relief with BCAAs. Also a large dose of Niacinamide (500mg) has reduced my gut swelling massively in the past. It could be enough to get your gut going again.
I'm definitely noticing benefits from goat milk. I've been able to tolerate the cow milk a lot better for a while now but this just goes down much easier.

 

[cs3000]

I sympathise with your gut issues. It's not an easy problem to overcome. Have you tried antibiotics? haidut's defribron? I've noticed my gut was so bad that I couldn't really get much out of protein foods and have found decent relief with BCAAs.
I'm definitely noticing benefits from goat milk. I've been able to tolerate the cow milk a lot better for a while now but this just goes down much easier.

aye takes its toll without basic functioning. yeah tried doxycycline but no benefit. having a look at defribron that endotoxin aspect is interesting ,

the main part i'm trying to solve is getting the ileal ulcer wound to heal for some reason its chronic & hasnt repaired, i think if i can get this to heal the chronic constipation from swelling should fix too / less ripple effect lower down
latest thing i tried is ramping up healing factors w good amounts of proline + colostrum. and some added msm + a little licorice (~<1.5g not enough to raise cortisol or crash test. but dropped the licorice as has salycilates). proline/ornithine are the main aminos for wound healing i think, turn into polyamines. maybe helped get out of an extreme in the first couple weeks but stalled no extra effect after that,

just started PHGG which looks promising for getting bowel movements back ~10g - 15g , and helping to thicken mucin layer
but yeh even with this i noticed goats milk is easier to digest also

 

[Greyfox]

aye takes its toll without basic functioning. yeah tried doxycycline but no benefit. having a look at defribron that endotoxin aspect is interesting ,

the main part i'm trying to solve is getting the ileal ulcer wound to heal for some reason its chronic & hasnt repaired, i think if i can get this to heal the chronic constipation from swelling should fix too
latest thing i tried is ramping up healing factors w good amounts of proline + colostrum. and some added msm + a little licorice (~<1.5g not enough to raise cortisol or crash test. but dropped the licorice as has salycilates). proline/ornithine are the main aminos for wound healing i think, turn into polyamines. maybe helped get out of an extreme in the first couple weeks but stalled no extra effect after that,

just started PHGG which looks promising for getting bowel movements back ~10g - 15g , and helping to thicken mucin layer

Have you done a decent course of the antibiotics? I know the bacteria die-off can be corrosive and deplete k2 but maybe you need a longer course?? I have MSM. I've barely used it. What dosages would be good?
Also have you considered fluid restriction?
An open wound is best kept dry and the consistent influx of fluid plus food may be agitating it beyond your capacity for repair.
I heard an anecdote about a guy helping his ulcer accidentally by knocking back cayenne pepper. Unfortunately i can't remember where the anecdote is among the videos of a channel called Snake Diet.

 

[Greyfox]

Found the cayenne pepper video.

View: https://youtu.be/VI04iyT681s

 

[cs3000]

Have you done a decent course of the antibiotics? I know the bacteria die-off can be corrosive and deplete k2 but maybe you need a longer course?? I have MSM. I've barely used it. What dosages would be good?
Also have you considered fluid restriction?
An open wound is best kept dry and the consistent influx of fluid plus food may be agitating it beyond your capacity for repair.
I heard an anecdote about a guy helping his ulcer accidentally by knocking back cayenne pepper. Unfortunately i can't remember where the anecdote is among the videos of a channel called Snake Diet.

cant remember how long was a while back, but theyre not great to take for long because they really **** with cellular energy. even low doses of the cyclines create mitochondria dysfunction & there's a problem with that in chronic gut conditions

usually its 2-3 grams of msm for sulfation glutathione and joints, i added it because of effects on TLR4 for gut. i stick to ~1g which is supposed to have effect still, think i noticed going over that tips over mental activity

i read about water restriction in enterocolitis, tried drinking next to nothing for a few days but theres mixed studies on that so figured water quality probably plays a role in the outcome differences. so bought a waterdrop jug filter for drinking water , filters out a decent amount of stuff like detergent byproducts but not flouride far as i remember. but isnt flouride in water here yet

yeh. its a split between getting enough calories & nourishment but constantly irritating it, or restricting food intake to sugar and basically nothing to minimise irritation. so i've been in the middle of these for a bit
i didnt think about fluid like that before but i guess youre right there , same split with that. dehydration vs wetting wound. maybe could be best to drink once or twice a day rather than smaller amounts often if that plays decent role

Found the cayenne pepper video.

View: https://youtu.be/VI04iyT681s

gonna look into some stuff about it ty
burned this hole in my gut with potassium supplements too, mixed it with a good amount of water each time. gel caps or mixing the powder in like he mentions wouldnt make a difference, it goes to the small intestine. raw form is just whack
was trying to fix an electrical issue where my whole body was twitching and heart was all over the place for months. figured certain potassium supps would be tolerable as long as theyre not enteric coated, nope. burned the ***t out of the lining after a while, shut down functioning and hasnt healed since

cayenne is high in salicylates but might be worth a shot , looks best to be careful with it as an irritant could make things worse if the wound is bad. but maybe there's a small dose/low potency that turns on protective factors for net improvement. will look into research at least. thanks for the pointer

 

[Greyfox]

In terms of fluid restriction you could try drinking only when very thirsty. Then sipping it until the thirst goes away. Might be benefitial to keep the digestive environment on the dryer side. By doing this you can cultivate a more intuitive water homeostasis. I think overhydration can be detrimental if the ambient temperature is low and humidity is high. If the energy economy is bad then it's hard to regulate excess water and swelling can occur. Swelling then messes with the mitochondria's ability to produce energy efficiently. At least that's my assumption.
Let thirst be your guide.
I've also heard people pushing passed their thirst response with dry fasting and such. Apparently the thirst can go away. I know dry fasting can generate a remarkable amount of heat and might facilitate some healing. Though i've been hesitant to go for very long.

 

[akgrrrl]

Yes!! Silver has antibacterial properties. You're so lucky to have someone in the family who practiced old school knowledge. I don't think people at large really know this about silver these days.

To be honest, I would probably be dead by now if I had lived according to how the generations live now. I had a good basis for building my childhood with nutrition before GMO, irradiation and monoculture with pesticides, and I was taught all kinds of food and remedies knowledge before microplastics and estrogenic deliveries were commonplace. I really feel for the younger gens not getting basic knowledge passed to them...in that regard, cellphones in hand has been damaging

 

[akgrrrl]

Bacteria is naturally present in raw milk and it posses part of its benefits. Maybe you meant antibodies prevent milk spoilage .by protecting it from exogenous bad bacteria. Without bacteria it would be no possible for the milk to turn into cheese, yogurt, kefir, etc.

I am pretty sure that cultures are added to make products. A tiny scraping from the inner lining of a calfs stomach...kefir grains are online...my goatmilk lady has cultures in jars refrigerated to make certain cheeses, flavors, and consistencies

 

[Greyfox]

To be honest, I would probably be dead by now if I had lived according to how the generations live now. I had a good basis for building my childhood with nutrition before GMO, irradiation and monoculture with pesticides, and I was taught all kinds of food and remedies knowledge before microplastics and estrogenic deliveries were commonplace. I really feel for the younger gens not getting basic knowledge passed to them...in that regard, cellphones in hand has been damaging

I had a different type of upbringing. Had to figure everything out for myself since I sensed things weren't right. All the pathologies of the modern world have been normalised and we're been gaslit into compliance. Sad times. I never use cellphones near my face. Some of my friends think I'm weird.