Hair Loss: Scalp Massage, Aspirin And Prostaglandins

[Soren]

Odd thing though. If I apply Aspirin topically like with haidut's Solban, or something like Scalpicin, the dermatitis quickly heals.

Hi charlie, would you say that topical Solban was the most important factor in solving your dermatitis?

 

[charlie]

Hi charlie, would you say that topical Solban was the most important factor in solving your dermatitis?

I notice stress brings it on the most. If I can stay in a zen like state(not easy to do 24/7) it dramatically reduces it. I only tested the Solban in the last couple of days because I saw people posting in the Solban thread that it was helping their dermatitis. Then I got to thinking, well duh, Scalpicin is topical Aspirin and it has worked well for me for dermatitis on top of my head. So I gave the Solban a test and sure enough, knocked it right out.

 

[m1sty]

@Soren Nice! I too use a laser helmet from OMG. I am curious about the handheld device you posted. I will do more research. As far as my journey, it really is very similar to yours,

I became interested in health and nutrition in high school, and began distance running on a high PUFA, high grain diet. Began limiting sugar intake early on. As I got older I discovered more research based nutrition information, and started following Tim Ferriss' "slow carb diet" high in beans and PUFA. Hair loss began around this time more or less 5 years ago.

Then moved on to an ultra low-carb ketogenic "Bulletproof" diet, eating tons of saturated fat and keeping carbs below 30g/day. I was also still cooking in PUFA oils like grapeseed and avocado oil because of their "high flash point". Also eating terribly and drinking a lot on the weekends. Hair loss got remarkably worse in a short period of time.

I was pretty much ready to give up and shave my head bald as someone on the Bulletproof Forum suggested when I saw a mention of Danny's book and Dr. Peat's work. They were all laughing about what a quack Dr. Peat is for recommending consumption of milk, OJ, and sugar. I saw Danny's book was 99 cents on Amazon, so I read the entire thing in about 2 hours. Then I read it again.

I was stunned at the data he was presenting. I searched his name and found this thread from 2012 on Mark Sisson's Paleo Forum.

Why does Danny Roddy recommend sugar to reduce stress/estrogen? - Page 5 | Mark's Daily Apple Health and Fitness Forum <!--VBSEO_RR_1-->

The thread was obviously going to be a hit-piece on Danny's work, so I wanted to read the criticisms. Comically, it appeared that Danny had showed up in the thread and was defending his ideas from the fervent attacks. I read the entire thing (80 pages ) over the course of a few hours and realized that no one was able to counter his arguments with anything but speculation.

That led me down the rabbit hole of Dr. Peat's articles, which have truly elucidated the mechanisms by which I had been damaging my metabolism my entire life. Now I am in pursuit of the next step in the journey -- Healing.

Interesting mate,

Your story is very very similar to mine.. My hair loss started when I did Tim ferris's slow carb diet. I've mentioned this here before. I loved the diet at the time , strongest, biggest and most lean I've ever been. But felt flat and anxious most of the time.

I only knew it was this after coming across Danny roddy's work and stopped it straight away. In 2+ years There's been changes but only minimal, and it's during periods of high stress and poor diet. 2 years ago I thought I'd be bald by now .

 

[m_arch]

Interesting mate,

Your story is very very similar to mine.. My hair loss started when I did Tim ferris's slow carb diet. I've mentioned this here before. I loved the diet at the time , strongest, biggest and most lean I've ever been. But felt flat and anxious most of the time.

I only knew it was this after coming across Danny roddy's work and stopped it straight away. In 2+ years There's been changes but only minimal, and it's during periods of high stress and poor diet. 2 years ago I thought I'd be bald by now .

Tim is!

 

[Soren]

I notice stress brings it on the most. If I can stay in a zen like state(not easy to do 24/7) it dramatically reduces it. I only tested the Solban in the last couple of days because I saw people posting in the Solban thread that it was helping their dermatitis. Then I got to thinking, well duh, Scalpicin is topical Aspirin and it has worked well for me for dermatitis on top of my head. So I gave the Solban a test and sure enough, knocked it right out.

I think Sol Ban has helped my scalp too. Since I started using it topically a few weeks ago I have had zero scalp itch and I think my dandruff is down too. My hair also seems healthier.

I am not sure now though if everything that I pull from my scalp while brushing is dandruff. It is not completely flaky but is white and tends to stick to the brush bristles and has an oily texture to it. Does anyone know what this might be? I've thought that perhaps it is due to hard water causing a build up of minerals.

Thoughts anyone?

 

[charlie]

Thoughts anyone?

It might be sebum.

What is Sebum? (with pictures)

 

[Soren]

I have got regrowth of previously receded areas. This is after a year on quetiapine, lithium, and escitalopram to reign in my bipolar. Over the last 2 months all scalp itch and irritation has disappeared and my hair feels thick and healthy. Beginning about 2 months ago I got serious and established a consistent routine for diet and supplementation. I currently eat mostly potato for CHO, beef, milk, coffee, coke, ice cream and olives. Daily, I get 1g-2g niacinamide, B complex, 1mg MB, 300mg aspirin, 20-30g EAAs, 5g glycine, 1g taurine (any more and I get very sulfurous stools).

For me the niacinamide was a game changer. My libido shot up, my scalp itch disappeared.

I've implemented a similar dietary and supplementary regime, lots of carbs, potatoes, coke, coffee, ice cream niacinamide, aspirin, taurine, gelatin, b complex. My biggest change recently is being very strict in my avoidance of PUFA.

How significant is your hair regrowth on the receded areas? Are the hairs terminal? How long after you implemented your diet and supplement regime did you see regrowth?

 

[Soren]

It might be sebum.

What is Sebum? (with pictures)

Maybe. I'm not convinced it is that though. I take lots of vitamin A and my acne is pretty low as a result when it was once moderate. I stopped using any hair products except water a couple of months ago and the oil in my scalp is massively reduced.

 

[CoolTweetPete]

I think folks like Tim assume their hair loss is purely genetic and they have no recourse. I don't think he ever talks about it.

I've always been a bit too stubborn to accept that.

 

[Soren]

Ditto, I've always thought it just didn't make sense that so much of the human body can go through profound changes due to environmental factors but hair was somehow excluded from that.

The genetic hypothesis is so flawed on so many levels. It takes on a very static view of biology and evolution that isn't born out by reality. The body makes countless changes due to outside factors but somehow hair loss is just a set track that no one can change no matter their diet and lifestyle choices?! So we can make a profound biological change on our risk to heart disease, stroke, cancer and a myriad of other diseases by living a certain way, but hair is somehow a fixed immutable part of human beings...doesn't seem logical to me.

 

[Soren]

Just a quick update. I stopped doing the scalp massage everyday as of last week as I think the machine I was using was too aggressive and unnecessarily pulling hairs from my scalp. I have been consistently using Solban on my scalp and it has definitely improved the condition of my scalp (not sure yet if it has had any affect on hair loss or regrowth). Still using a LLLT device achieving 4-6 joules of energy per square inch three times a week.

I have been considering of adding in derma-needling once a week to my routine. I used it in the past for about 2 months but I stopped because I didn't really see any real progress. I now think that might have been because my scalp was very tight and in a state of fibrosis so it would have been a long time before regrowth would have occurred. So I am now going to give it another go.

I recall reading a discussion that someone posted on the forum where peat talks a lot about hair loss and he specifically mentions why wounding of the scalp while it may appear to be bad for hair growth because of the stress of hypoxia and the increase of prolactin, it could actually lead to hair regrowth as long as the stress was acute and not chronic.

If anyone has any idea of what discussion I'm talking about or where to find it please let me know.

So my hair treatment will now be;

1) Scalp massage 2-3 times a week.
2) LLLT three times a week.
3) Solban topically once per day.
4) Derma-needling followed by LLLT once per week.
A note on derma-needling: The device I am using is not a dermaroller it is a dermaneedling machine called the dermanator, it is much more efficient and prevents skin tearing (still painful though )

Would love to get anyone's thoughts especially with regards to wounding/dermaneedling and scalp growth.

Thanks!

 

[zooma]

I've been using Overmachogrande's laser helmet for about a year and a half and a handheld device for when travelling. Before that I was using devices that were woefully underpowered and did not have a proper treatment regime. The helmet and the handheld device I have are on paper sufficiently powered. The handheld device I use is very high powered and comes from Elixa.com, it has 32 high powered LED's with a fan for cooling. Here is the link to the product. I recently purchased the red light device from red light man for more general red light application and have been thinking about using that for my hair to see if that gives me a better result. Out of the three devices I own the one that is actually lowest in power output is the helmet from OMG, it is still very high powered when compared to 99% of devices out there but the device from Elixa requires only 1-5 minutes of use (depending on the energy level you want to reach). Also the helmet is the only one that uses lasers. There is some argument that non-laser light might be better because laser light overrides the cells natural feedback loop that stops it from taking in more energy then it needs, the laser light in the helmet will not damage the hair but too much light will just negate the regrowth benefits. Apologies for this simplistic description, what I have just stated is not meant to specifically describe the biomechanical process that takes place due to overexposure of laser sourced red light, it is just the best way I know how to describe what is occurring without getting very technical.

Are you saying that the Elixa and red light man devices are probably better for hair than the OMG helmet? (presuming this Red light device - Red Light Man is what you bought from red light man)

I recall reading a discussion that someone posted on the forum where peat talks a lot about hair loss and he specifically mentions why wounding of the scalp while it may appear to be bad for hair growth because of the stress of hypoxia and the increase of prolactin, it could actually lead to hair regrowth as long as the stress was acute and not chronic.

If anyone has any idea of what discussion I'm talking about or where to find it please let me know.

Ray talks about the potential for injury to stimulate hair growth in this interview KMUD: Hair Loss, Inflammation and Osteoporosis (2012)

HD: So it's like a stress hormone, for the immediate or very short term like cortisol, it uses, it mobilizes nutrients, it helps you get through that stressful period but in the long term it's very detrimental.

RP: Yes, it's the same principle for you get a shock of parathyroid hormone that starts up the bone growth, it's similar to what happens with an injury - sometimes people have a cut on their scalp they'll get hair growing around the scar. Two or three years ago, an old man fell, with his head in the fireplace, and got a severe burn on the scalp and grew a whole head of hair as a result. But you don't want to rely on either injury or parathyroid hormone!

 

[Pointless]

Maybe it's better and healthier for men to be bald

 

[Soren]

Are you saying that the Elixa and red light man devices are probably better for hair than the OMG helmet? (presuming this Red light device - Red Light Man is what you bought from red light man)


Ray talks about the potential for injury to stimulate hair growth in this interview KMUD: Hair Loss, Inflammation and Osteoporosis (2012)

I don't know if the Elixa light is better, it might turn out not to be. From the data I have about both devices I can say that I prefer to use my Elixa light for a variety of reasons compared to the OMG helmet (which I still think is a GREAT product).

Based on an OMG helmet you need to wear it for 15-20 minutes to get the required 4-6 joules of energy per square inch on the scalp. According to Elixa, their high energy red light device only requires ONE minute of use to reach that same 4-6 joules energy level. So wherever I feel on my head is necessary to place the red light I do so for a minute and then move on. There are four areas on my scalp I place the light so this adds up to 4 minutes treatment versus 20. The Elixa light also penetrates very deeply, I've placed in on the palm of my hand and the light almost goes all the way through. I have only used the Red light Man device for my scalp once, as it was awkward and difficult to get the right positioning.

Thanks for posting the link to the Ray Peat Interview, appreciate it

 

[tara]

I think I will add caffeine, niacinamide and aspirin and taurine to emu oil and see what happens.

Those substances would probably dissolve more easily in water - splash the solution on skin separate/before anything oily for better absorption?

 

[zooma]

Thanks @Soren
I want to experiment with one of these products, and the Elixa and RLM seem like simpler options for now. Does the red light man product also put out the required 4-6 joules in a similar time frame?

 

[Soren]

Thanks @Soren
I want to experiment with one of these products, and the Elixa and RLM seem like simpler options for now. Does the red light man product also put out the required 4-6 joules in a similar time frame?

No problem zooma. The red light man's product does put out a similar energy output. It is also a very good product and is very good for applying red light to larger parts of the body. On his site he has a guide to dosing for different issues.

Here is the link. Complete guide to light therapy dosing - Red Light Man

 

[m_arch]

I don't know if the Elixa light is better, it might turn out not to be. From the data I have about both devices I can say that I prefer to use my Elixa light for a variety of reasons compared to the OMG helmet (which I still think is a GREAT product).

Based on an OMG helmet you need to wear it for 15-20 minutes to get the required 4-6 joules of energy per square inch on the scalp. According to Elixa, their high energy red light device only requires ONE minute of use to reach that same 4-6 joules energy level. So wherever I feel on my head is necessary to place the red light I do so for a minute and then move on. There are four areas on my scalp I place the light so this adds up to 4 minutes treatment versus 20. The Elixa light also penetrates very deeply, I've placed in on the palm of my hand and the light almost goes all the way through. I have only used the Red light Man device for my scalp once, as it was awkward and difficult to get the right positioning.

Thanks for posting the link to the Ray Peat Interview, appreciate it

Hi Soren,

I was contemplating buying the OMG helmet however it is costly, over a thousand USD.
Is the high powered LED array you're talking about this one - High Power LED Array Red 660nm - Elixa ? If that's the one it seems like a much more affordable option at $295 USD. Also I suspect the product will last longer as they're only LED's compared to lasers which seem to go out after 2 years.

They have a youtube video here; and yes - it does look very powerful!

Under the instructions tab they say to use the device for 10 minutes a few times a week to regrow hair (too much?), but they also mention starting at 1 minute and seeing how you go from there.. hmm.


EDIT:

Our resident @RedLightMan 's product seems to compare really well too. Red light device - Red Light Man .

This product supposedly lasts 11 years if its switched on 12 hours a day! Holy cow!

Currently around $180 USD. He recommends to hold it 10cm away for 6 minutes. But also states the effective does is 67 joules per cm2 here; Complete guide to light therapy dosing - Red Light Man

67 joules is a lot more than 4-6 joules! Am I missing something here?


---------------

The 67 joules is confusing but aside from that, RLM's product seems superior. However the advantages of the OMG helmet and the Elixa is that they both can be pressed directly against the scalp so they touch the skin. I imagine RLM's product is too strong to be put directly against the skin?

 

[David PS]

Thanks for all the information guys. Recently, I started massage to break up the calcium dome. I take a lot of vitamin k. It is supposed take calcium out of the soft tissue and put it where it belongs (in the bones?) . I no longer have dental plaque and my joints don't creak as much as in the past.

I have 2 handheld LED devices. The first one that I purchased was only red light and did not have an internal fan. The heat from the LED's would build up after about 20 minutes so that I could use it against my skin for long periods of time. My second device (my go to device) has an internal fan and blue and yellow LEDs as well. Blue is good for acne. I have been using it for about 9 months. At the time, I thought the best prices and selection was at Hand Held LED units, Light Therapy panels, Infrared light therapy, LED ARRAYS 660nm and 850nm LEDs.

It use my device on my scalp, face, over an open mouth and over my chakras. Often I use it while surfing the web.

 

[Soren]

Hi Soren,

I was contemplating buying the OMG helmet however it is costly, over a thousand USD.
Is the high powered LED array you're talking about this one - High Power LED Array Red 660nm - Elixa ? If that's the one it seems like a much more affordable option at $295 USD. Also I suspect the product will last longer as they're only LED's compared to lasers which seem to go out after 2 years.

They have a youtube video here; and yes - it does look very powerful!

Under the instructions tab they say to use the device for 10 minutes a few times a week to regrow hair (too much?), but they also mention starting at 1 minute and seeing how you go from there.. hmm.


EDIT:

Our resident @RedLightMan 's product seems to compare really well too. Red light device - Red Light Man .

This product supposedly lasts 11 years if its switched on 12 hours a day! Holy cow!

Currently around $180 USD. He recommends to hold it 10cm away for 6 minutes. But also states the effective does is 67 joules per cm2 here; Complete guide to light therapy dosing - Red Light Man

67 joules is a lot more than 4-6 joules! Am I missing something here?


---------------

The 67 joules is confusing but aside from that, RLM's product seems superior. However the advantages of the OMG helmet and the Elixa is that they both can be pressed directly against the scalp so they touch the skin. I imagine RLM's product is too strong to be put directly against the skin?

Hey m_arch, that is the device I have although mine only has one fan as it was a slightly earlier version I think.

Energy Discrepancy
I checked the reference table that is on red-light man's guide as well as the two studies he references. I have to admit that is the first that I've heard about that many joules per square inch being used for hair growth. Everything I've read and heard up to this point has stated that the ideal level of energy is 4-6 joules and after that the effects diminish. I'll have to do some more research to verify if that is the case.

With regards to the website's recommendation for 10 minutes. I can only speculate as to the discrepancy, I do know that there old device which was less powerful recommended a similar treatment time.

I would note that there are varying ways to measure the amount of energy absorbed in tissue and there is no agreed upon method and some say that joules per cm squared is inadequate it could be a mix up in that regard.

I am definitely going to be doing more research in that regard because it could be that I have been under-dosing this whole time although I doubt it.