How Can I Improve Glycogen Storage?

[freyasam]

I agree with nikotrope, this sounds like a liver issue to me. I had the same symptoms of waking up starving sometimes with a pounding heart, being hungry every two hours, also weight gain and liver pain. I did the fructose route last year (ate bags and bags of 100% pure non-GMO fructose). Then I gradually started mixing the fructose with organic cane sugar at a half and half ratio, also kept my fat intake very low while doing this.

It took several months, but I no longer have the glycogen storage issue. I hope you find what works for you!

Thanks TBP; it's good to hear that it's possible to get over this!

What brand of fructose powder did you use? I see NOW brand, but it doesn't say non-GMO.

Also, can you remember how many bags of fructose powder you'd go through in a month? I live in a country where it takes a long time to ship things like this in from the US, and I'd like to order enough for a few months. I know we're all different, but it's helpful to know how much you used. Thanks!

 

[Peata]

I agree with nikotrope, this sounds like a liver issue to me. I had the same symptoms of waking up starving sometimes with a pounding heart, being hungry every two hours, also weight gain and liver pain. I did the fructose route last year (ate bags and bags of 100% pure non-GMO fructose). Then I gradually started mixing the fructose with organic cane sugar at a half and half ratio, also kept my fat intake very low while doing this.

It took several months, but I no longer have the glycogen storage issue. I hope you find what works for you!

I forget but did you say if you can now eat more fat since you have your issues taken care of?

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Hi Peata, I don't restrict fat at all any more. The very low fat (20 grams per day or less) was part of my experiment to force my body to burn sugar and take a burden off my liver.


Hi freyasam, This is the non-GMO 100% fructose powder that I used. They are 2 lb. bags with a 3 bag minimum order. I ordered LOTS!

http://www.vitacost.com/tree-of-life-na ... se-32-oz-1

 

[Peata]

Hi Peata, I don't restrict fat at all any more. The very low fat (20 grams per day or less) was part of my experiment to force my body to burn sugar and take a burden off my liver.


http://www.vitacost.com/tree-of-life-na ... se-32-oz-1

OK, thanks. That's what i'm trying to do.

I gave up too soon before because of how bad i felt, but i'm going to give it a longer try this time.

 

[freyasam]

Hi Peata, I don't restrict fat at all any more. The very low fat (20 grams per day or less) was part of my experiment to force my body to burn sugar and take a burden off my liver.


Hi freyasam, This is the non-GMO 100% fructose powder that I used. They are 2 lb. bags with a 3 bag minimum order. I ordered LOTS!

http://www.vitacost.com/tree-of-life-na ... se-32-oz-1

thebigpeatowski, so all you did to help your liver and to "train" your body to burn sugar was to eat fructose powder and keep fat very low? Anything else?

 

[thebigpeatowski]

• I cut fat to as low as humanly possible (20 gms or less)
  I ate immodest amounts of just fructose from the powder I linked to above along with ripe fruit and OJ
  I assaulted my intestines with raw garlic
  I kept my protein intake very high (well over 100 gms per day)
  I supplemented lots of B vitamins
  I took thyroid medication
  I ate NO starch
  I drowned myself with Progest-E.
  I drank lots of coffee
  I tracked calcium intake obsessively

It certainly was not an enjoyable experiment, after all fat and starch are DELISH. It was tedious and sorta boring, but I was desperate!!! So I pretended that I was in a ward for the metabolically disturbed and performed my experiment accordingly. I did the bulk of it over the summer when natural sunlight is abundant, I don't think I would try this during the super short days of winter in the Pacific Northwest. Also, I have absolutely no stress in my life so that surely helps. I should mention too that I was sedentary, for the most part, because I just had NO energy.

At any rate, this combination seemed to help take the burden off of my liver and force my body to become a sugar burner, no more insulin resistance. I did the low-fat/no starch portion for 6 weeks at a stretch and then would take a break and eat tons of fat and rice or popcorn because it's very difficult to do long term otherwise. I found that if I "knew" it wasn't gonna be forever then I could hold out. Eating the higher fat made me feel like sh*t every time and potatoes were still giving me gut problems. So I would go do another 6 week stretch and retest again. I started the fructose loading last March, but didn't remove the fat and ALL starch until June, which is when I did the raw garlic dealio and that's when I began to see a shift. I continued the experiment until late September and quit when I went to Mexico.

Over the holidays I pushed my fat intake, starch consumption and calories into the stratosphere with no problems other than mild loose stool a couple of times. I thought at one point that my digestive issues might be returning, but it hasn't manifested.

I recently began tracking on Cron-O again and was pleasantly surprised to see that I'm consuming (on average) nearly 3000 cals per day with no weight gain and NO digestive issues. Not too shabby for an old gal like me. It seems that fixing metabolism has fixed the gut issues as well.

I began sleeping better a looong time ago (no more night time waking), however I noticed a few weeks ago that I was having a hard time falling asleep so I began taking less thyroid meds. Today is day three with NO thyroid medication at all, sleep has been great the last three nights so really hoping I can stay off that too.

My apologies for the super long-winded post

 

[Peata]

no apologies needed, we like long, detailed posts. Thanks. it's very helpful.

 

[freyasam]

• I cut fat to as low as humanly possible (20 gms or less)
  I ate immodest amounts of just fructose from the powder I linked to above along with ripe fruit and OJ
  I assaulted my intestines with raw garlic
  I kept my protein intake very high (well over 100 gms per day)
  I supplemented lots of B vitamins
  I took thyroid medication
  I ate NO starch
  I drowned myself with Progest-E.
  I drank lots of coffee
  I tracked calcium intake obsessively

:

Thank you! That's very helpful.

So, like a bag of fructose powder per day? Every three days?

 

[extremecheddar]

I had the same issue. Paleo low carb killed my ability to go very long with out a meal. When I started peat and added carbs back in it got drastically better. However, about 8 months into peat I was eating no starch and just fruit for carbs. I started having low blood sugar episodes at work. It continued to get worse to where I have to eat every couple hours. Sometimes 20 minutes after a meal I feel like i need to eat again. Not like your usual hunger you would normally get, its more like lightheaded with shaking hands and I have to get some type of carb in me. I also started getting liver pains from eating fruit.

A year ago I went a whole week getting all my carbs from oj. The same thing happened, I had problems with hypoglycemia.

What I did was started getting my carbs from rice, potatoes, and corn tortillas( taco Tuesday errday) and now I can have a little fruit without pain. In a different way I do feel like too much starch at one time affects blood sugar just as bad, but if I do it right I can go longer between meals this way. During my starch free days, my digestion was a lot smother so I have pros and cons either way. I'm still experimenting to figure out whats best. There seems to be a lot of liver and blood sugar/glycogen problems in the peat community so there must be some more things we need to figure out.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Thank you! That's very helpful.

So, like a bag of fructose powder per day? Every three days?

I think I was eating close to a cup of fructose powder a day, perhaps a little less on days where I had more fruit. I went through at least two gallons of OJ per week and still do. I also ate TONS of mangoes, fresh and frozen made into smoothies. I can now go for eight hours (easily) without food.

Everyone's situation is slightly different and so your mileage may vary. Keep experimenting!!!

 

[Peata]

Thank you! That's very helpful.

So, like a bag of fructose powder per day? Every three days?

I think I was eating close to a cup of fructose powder a day, perhaps a little less on days where I had more fruit. I went through at least two gallons of OJ per week and still do. I also ate TONS of mangoes, fresh and frozen made into smoothies. I can now go for eight hours (easily) without food.

Everyone's situation is slightly different and so your mileage may vary. Keep experimenting!!!

not to veer off topic, but can you give a quick recipe for your smoothies?

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Orange Mango smoothie:
1 cup of fresh organic OJ
220 to 230 grams more or less of Fage plain 0% Greek yogurt, amount depends on how thick you like it
1 cup frozen organic mango chunks, no ice needed with frozen fruit
fructose powder if you want more sweetness
I usually add a Tablespoon or two of hydrolyzed collagen depending if I want/need more protein
1 tsp. more or less of calcium powder, optional if you aren't getting enough calcium


I used to measure out a cup of fructose powder and aim to get most of it consumed over the course of a day, so some went into coffee, some went into smoothies, some went into home made jello etc. How much you use in each is entirely up to your personal taste buds.

My Raw Liver smoothie (shudders):

1 cup cold coffee
1 cup 1% milk (or a combination of non-fat milk with some 0% Greek yogurt)
1 heaping tablespoon cocoa powder
2 TBS. hydrolyzed collagen
2 Tbs. or more fructose powder or more depending on your taste
1 oz. raw frozen organic grass fed beef liver. If I put too much more than 1.3 oz. of liver in I can taste it, yuck. Blend until perfectly smooth and pour over ice cubes, tastes better if it is super cold. Ceylon cinnamon is another delicious addition.

You can play around with the amounts of the ingredients/supplements to suit your own taste. Smoothies are such an easy way to hide supplements and make things taste creamier even when there is no fat.

 

[Peata]

Thanks for the recipe.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

You're quite welcome. I think the combination of very low fat, high protein, lotsa coffee, high fructose and lotsa B vits made a HUGE difference in my liver health. I had developed chronic liver pain and digestive issues and wasn't clearing estrogen at all...that's my theory anyway. Improved liver glycogen storage was one of many unexpected side benefits.

 

[freyasam]

You're quite welcome. I think the combination of very low fat, high protein, lotsa coffee, high fructose and lotsa B vits made a HUGE difference in my liver health. I had developed chronic liver pain and digestive issues and wasn't clearing estrogen at all...that's my theory anyway. Improved liver glycogen storage was one of many unexpected side benefits.

Sorry for the onslaught of questions, TBP, but I'm wondering what B vitamins you supplemented and at what dosages. I know my experience will be different, but I'm just looking for ideas since you had similar issues to me.

I'm hoping to replicate as much of your experiment as possible once I get some fructose (and I'm reducing fat now), but I can't tolerate much dairy and have to get protein mostly from meat, so that makes it hard to keep fat down. Also I can't drink much coffee (a cup a day, if that), without getting anxiety. But hopefully little by little I'll be able to tolerate more.

Thanks again!!

 

[Peata]

I
Finally, if you are interested in trying drugs (after consulting with your doctor of course) an older antihistamine and anti-acid drug famotidine (brand name Pepcid) is exceptionally good at inhibiting glycogen breakdown and also promoting the synthesis of new glycogen. It is worth noting that famotidine is unique in its glycogen effects among the anti-acid drigs and also unlike other drugs it has no know interaction with any other drug or any known effects on liver health or metabolizing abilities. So, you could use that while loading up on sugar. Famotidine has been found to be helpful for a number of conditions completely unrelated to stomach acid such as schizophrenia and PTSD. The Peat-approved explanation of those benefits would be due to the drug improving glycogen storage/usage and thus improving brain energetic profile. Here is one study for famotidine and glycogen:
http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10 ... 012.672413
I hope that helps.

I noticed in reading that Cyproheptadine is also helpful for ptsd and schizophrenia. Also, maybe famotidine - (pepcid's) histamine lowering effect also helps? And could it help similarly to cypro maybe lowering serotonin and helping with neuro disorders.? but that's getting off topic in this thread. it's just interesting to me. Especially since one can get generic famotidine for around $2.50 OTC.

 

[haidut]

I
Finally, if you are interested in trying drugs (after consulting with your doctor of course) an older antihistamine and anti-acid drug famotidine (brand name Pepcid) is exceptionally good at inhibiting glycogen breakdown and also promoting the synthesis of new glycogen. It is worth noting that famotidine is unique in its glycogen effects among the anti-acid drigs and also unlike other drugs it has no know interaction with any other drug or any known effects on liver health or metabolizing abilities. So, you could use that while loading up on sugar. Famotidine has been found to be helpful for a number of conditions completely unrelated to stomach acid such as schizophrenia and PTSD. The Peat-approved explanation of those benefits would be due to the drug improving glycogen storage/usage and thus improving brain energetic profile. Here is one study for famotidine and glycogen:
http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10 ... 012.672413
I hope that helps.

I noticed in reading that Cyproheptadine is also helpful for ptsd and schizophrenia. Also, maybe famotidine - (pepcid's) histamine lowering effect also helps? And could it help similarly to cypro maybe lowering serotonin and helping with neuro disorders.? but that's getting off topic in this thread. it's just interesting to me. Especially since one can get generic famotidine for around $2.50 OTC.

I have not seen any evidence that famotidine lowers serotonin, but its histamine-lowering effects and positive effects on the gut are probably enough to explain the benefits in neurological conditions. There is one study that showed famotidine prevented gastric damage induced by a serotonin-complex and the effect was not due to its lowering of stomach acid. So, famotidine has something going on for it that goes beyond histamine but we just don't know.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2067140

"...Famotidine (0.03, 0.1 and 0.3 mg/kg, p.o.) inhibited dose-dependently the development of gastric lesions produced by taurocholate-histamine in doses that suppressed histamine-induced acid secretion in pylorus-ligated rats. The H2-antagonist also prevented gastric mucosal lesions induced by taurocholate-serotonin, iodoacetamide, acidified aspirin and acidified ethanol. Cimetidine, pirenzepine and cetraxate showed the inhibitory effects on almost all types of the gastric lesions, but their inhibitory effects were much less potent than those of famotidine. On the other hand, famotidine inhibited the decreases of gastric mucosal blood flow induced by acidified ethanol and the mucosal contents of glycoprotein induced by water immersion restraint stress. In addition, famotidine increased the transgastric potential difference (PD) and promoted the recovery of decreased transgastric PD induced by acidified ethanol in rats. These results suggest that the preventive effect of famotidine on gastric lesions is attributable not only to suppression of acid secretion but to activation of the gastric mucosal defensive mechanisms."

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Sorry for the onslaught of questions, TBP, but I'm wondering what B vitamins you supplemented and at what dosages. I know my experience will be different, but I'm just looking for ideas since you had similar issues to me.

I'm hoping to replicate as much of your experiment as possible once I get some fructose (and I'm reducing fat now), but I can't tolerate much dairy and have to get protein mostly from meat, so that makes it hard to keep fat down. Also I can't drink much coffee (a cup a day, if that), without getting anxiety. But hopefully little by little I'll be able to tolerate more.

Thanks again!!

No worries...when I first started I this particular experiment I used NO supplements at all because I wanted to see how each thing affected me. And I didn't start off drinking as much coffee as I do now, I had to work up to it. There were many times that I pushed things too hard and had to just sit and eat spoonfuls of sugar, one right after the other. Sometimes I would squirt honey right from the bottle, I'm sure I looked like a crazy woman.

I think the first B vit. I started with was B-12 in the methylcobalamin form. I used a large dose (5000 mcg.) and felt an immediate boost. I had been having chronic diarrhea and serious digestive issues for months and I knew I was depleted and not absorbing anything.

The next one I tried was B-1 thiamine HCL at 100 mg. I absolutely love it and now I take 300 or 400 mg. a day (and occasionally EVEN MORE), makes me feel awesome. I realize these are INSANE DOSAGES, just remember I was quite depleted at the time and not processing sugar at all. I have the plain powder, but I used capsules cuz they are more convenient and B-1 tastes horrid!!!

The next one I added was B-6, just one cap in the evening 100 mg.

Then I added Niacinamide, I had tried to start it earlier, but for some reason I had a bad reaction to it early on and so I quit. The next time I tried I became noticeably warmer and calm and I remember thinking "oh, this is good". I use 500 mg. caps twice a day, but will switch to my plain powder when my pills are gone.

Then I added Biotin cuz my nails had stopped growing and I wanted to see if it would help...not sure if it did anything. My nails started growing again, but that could just be due to better digestion and actually absorbing my nutrients....dunno.

I will occasionally throw in one 100 mcg. of L-Methylfolate too for good measure. I will most likely quit these last two supps when I run out. The ones I love the most are B-1, B-3, B-6 and B-12.

For protein I lived on Jarlsberg Lite (reduced fat swiss cheese, you get used to it), 99% fat free turkey breast, gelatin (both hydrolyzed and regular), Fage 0% fat Greek yogurt, eggs but NOT every day, very lean grass fed beef, oysters, shrimp, cod, liver, langostino lobster and grass-fed lamb with all the fat cut off...if I think of anything else I"ll add it in.

In the beginning I had to eat many many small meals per day and often got up at night to have salted OJ, honey, or a few ounces of sugared and salted 1% milk. GOOD LUCK and keep us posted!!!

 

[freyasam]

Thanks. Will keep you posted!

 

[SQu]

Such interesting info! Bp you're always doing something interesting and you've had some great breakthroughs.
I just wanted to add feedback :
the liver fixing stuff like k2, taurine, glycine, caffeine is making me feel noticeably better in spite of the silicon dioxide etc in the capsules (which I'm ignoring for now as not planning to take permanently).
Low fat stopped working for me overnight when my stress levels went up.
Less liquid is helping too.
The suggestion to accompany sugar with 300mg b1 / or some magnesium is working very well.