Hydrogen Water - Insanely Strong Reaction

[TripleOG]

Thanks for sparking an interest. Very fascinating.

Funny enough, One Radio Network had George Wiseman on recently to discuss health impacts of hydrogen therapies, and additional benefits of using HHO/Brown's Gas.



There's another 3 hour show from earlier in the year that goes into his deep history with HHO/Brown's Gas tech development and application. He was making 100mpg cars back in the 80s with this tech lol. His machines are expensive, but he'll thoroughly explain why if you email him (compare/contrast vs competition, why most devices are based off his tech, safety concerns, etc).

Here's a good write-up on Wiseman's site comparing the different ways to obtain hydrogen:
What’s the BEST way to get hydrogen into my body?

Tyler W. LeBaron also has a lot of interesting talks out there.

@Daniel11 has been using one of those PEM/SPE hydrogen water bottle machines for well over a year now. Maybe he can update us on his experience.

 

[Lokzo]

I got this response from Tyler Lebaron:

Thanks for the message. I don't know that brand, but they look like
the conventional "open-cup" high ppm H2 tablets. Your experience is
certainly different than most as I would say most never notice very
much. I have taken over 10 of those tablets and hardly felt anything
except for a potentially faster recovery when doing multiple days high
intensity exercise.

As a scientist it would be interesting to see if your experience is
reproducible and not just an unfortunate correlation. There have been
other people who have reported that the first time they tried H2 they
ended up getting sick or something happened, but not the subsequent
times. Maybe they were going to get sick anyways.

Obviously everybody is different and will respond to things
differently. Most people can eat peanuts and other highly allergenic
foods, but yet some people cannot. Of course H2 is very different
since it is not an allergen. There are several important
considerations regarding the safety of H2.

1) H2 gas is already present in the blood, breath, and body in 99% of
the population. It is naturally produced by intestinal bacteria. On
average the amount of H2 gas you get per day from eating fibers and
health vegetables, etc. is over 100x more then you would get from
ingesting 1 tablet (10,000+ mL from bacteria vs. 78 mL from the
tablet). So it is not like you are getting some foreign/alien
substance in your body. Unless you never eat fiber, have a terrible
microbiome, use lots of antibiotics, then you will be getting a lot
more H2 from the bacteria than you would from the tablet. Of course
this begs the question then as to why is ingestion of HRW still good?
We are not sure, we just have the data. But it is interesting that
those with higher levels of H2 production live longer, have less
cardiovascular problems, and seem to be healthier. For example:
Managing ulcerative colitis by increasing hydrogen production via oral administration of acarbose | Zhu | African Journal of Traditional, Complementary and Alternative Medicines
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306987710003920
gut microbiome of healthy Japanese and its microbial and functional uniqueness


2) H2 gas has been tested in humans since the 1940s as a deep sea
diving gas at thousands of times higher concentrations than what we
could ever deliver therapeutically. For example, 98.6% H2 gas at over
19x normal atmospheric pressure. These studies have shown that H2 gas
does not induce any chronic toxic effects.

3) The cell culture, animal, and human studies on H2 have also failed
to find any obvious harmful effect of H2. The cell studies (again even
at 100x the concentration that your body cells would be exposed to)
have not shown any negative toxic effects, but increased markers of
longevity and health. The only reports from human studies suggests
that some may have a slightly more loose stools, which some report as
a benefit since the majority of the population suffers from idiopathic
constipation. Interestingly, constipation studies have shown that
increased intestinal H2 increases intestinal motility while increased
intestinal methane decreases intestinal motility, which could be a
correlative factor in those at risk for constipation.

4) The tablet specifically that you are talking about does not seem to
have any harmful ingredients. All ingredients appear to be in small
amounts (only low milligram range) and are certified as GRAS. The
tablets themselves have been approved by the Health Canada and the FDA
as a New Dietary ingredient. Some have been concerned about ingesting
too much magnesium, which is possible, but normally that is only when
you are taking well over a 1,000 mg/day. Most magnesium supplements
provide 200-500 mg of magnesium. The Daily recommended intake is
400-500 mg of magnesium with perhaps 80% of the population being
deficient in this. It looks like 1 tablet only contains 80 mg of
magnesium, so that should also not pose a problem.

5) Those tablets have been/are being using in perhaps 10 clinical
trials. I have been a part of 3 of them. For example we did one on
patients with NAFLD, and they used two tablets per day. The results
were very impressive and we did not find any negative effects
Hydrogen-rich water reduces liver fat accumulation and improves liver enzyme profiles in patients with non-alcoholic fatty liver disease: a randomi... - PubMed - NCBI. This is also true for a
study we just finished with 60 subjects with metabolic syndrome who
used 3 tablets/day. The results are quite favorable, and there was no
reported harmful effects.

Anyways, there are other reasons why it appears that H2, including
those H2-producing tablets, are safe, but we still need more research
to understand things better.

Regarding thyroid hormones. I don't know of any data that shows that
H2 gas has any influence on these hormones. At least not directly.
Similarly, the is not clinical data on cortisol levels, but it is
likely that H2 can help decrease excessive cortisol levels by lowering
the offending inflammation. For example, we showed this with other
stress hormones here: Molecular hydrogen increases resilience to stress in mice

Regarding the conjecture of H2 feeding pathogenic bacteria. Yes, this
is true, as well as beneficial bacteria. H2 is a good energy source.
However, as explained in point #1 above, the intestines are already
full of H2 gas, and so adding a little bit more is unlikely to
increase the growth harmful bacteria. The growth of pathogenic
bacteria is not substrate (fuel i.e. H2) limitation, but numerous
other factors. In fact, based on simple michaelis menten kinetics, the
Km of the hydrogenase enzyme is very lower compared to the
concentration of H2 gas present. This means that the use of H2 gas is
already occurring at Vmax. As an analogy, its like the risk of
drowning in water 3 meters deep is the same as 3000 meters deep (i.e.
the risk does not increase with greater depth), so also does the rate
of growth not increase with more H2. Additionally, there is some
research that suggests that H2 may be helpful in improving the gut
microbiome and optimizing a favorable bacteria profile. For example,
Hydrogen-Rich Saline Regulates Intestinal Barrier... : Shock
Hydrogen-water ameliorates radiation-induced gastrointestinal toxicity via MyD88’s effects on the gut microbiota
Intestinal Microbiota Ecological Response to Oral Administrations of Hydrogen-Rich Water and Lactulose in Female Piglets Fed a Fusarium Toxin-Contaminated Diet
https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/10/2/144

Anyways, we still have a lot to understand and research, but the
preliminary data seems promising and the high safety profile compared
to many other substances including pharmaceuticals and nutraceuticals
(e.g. herbs and supplements) is also important.

 

[charlie]

I got this response from Tyler Lebaron:

Thanks for the message. I don't know that brand, but they look like
the conventional "open-cup" high ppm H2 tablets. Your experience is
certainly different than most as I would say most never notice very
much. I have taken over 10 of those tablets and hardly felt anything
except for a potentially faster recovery when doing multiple days high
intensity exercise.

As a scientist it would be interesting to see if your experience is
reproducible and not just an unfortunate correlation. There have been
other people who have reported that the first time they tried H2 they
ended up getting sick or something happened, but not the subsequent
times. Maybe they were going to get sick anyways.

Obviously everybody is different and will respond to things
differently. Most people can eat peanuts and other highly allergenic
foods, but yet some people cannot. Of course H2 is very different
since it is not an allergen. There are several important
considerations regarding the safety of H2.

1) H2 gas is already present in the blood, breath, and body in 99% of
the population. It is naturally produced by intestinal bacteria. On
average the amount of H2 gas you get per day from eating fibers and
health vegetables, etc. is over 100x more then you would get from
ingesting 1 tablet (10,000+ mL from bacteria vs. 78 mL from the
tablet). So it is not like you are getting some foreign/alien
substance in your body. Unless you never eat fiber, have a terrible
microbiome, use lots of antibiotics, then you will be getting a lot
more H2 from the bacteria than you would from the tablet. Of course
this begs the question then as to why is ingestion of HRW still good?
We are not sure, we just have the data. But it is interesting that
those with higher levels of H2 production live longer, have less
cardiovascular problems, and seem to be healthier. For example:
Managing ulcerative colitis by increasing hydrogen production via oral administration of acarbose | Zhu | African Journal of Traditional, Complementary and Alternative Medicines
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306987710003920
gut microbiome of healthy Japanese and its microbial and functional uniqueness


2) H2 gas has been tested in humans since the 1940s as a deep sea
diving gas at thousands of times higher concentrations than what we
could ever deliver therapeutically. For example, 98.6% H2 gas at over
19x normal atmospheric pressure. These studies have shown that H2 gas
does not induce any chronic toxic effects.

3) The cell culture, animal, and human studies on H2 have also failed
to find any obvious harmful effect of H2. The cell studies (again even
at 100x the concentration that your body cells would be exposed to)
have not shown any negative toxic effects, but increased markers of
longevity and health. The only reports from human studies suggests
that some may have a slightly more loose stools, which some report as
a benefit since the majority of the population suffers from idiopathic
constipation. Interestingly, constipation studies have shown that
increased intestinal H2 increases intestinal motility while increased
intestinal methane decreases intestinal motility, which could be a
correlative factor in those at risk for constipation.

4) The tablet specifically that you are talking about does not seem to
have any harmful ingredients. All ingredients appear to be in small
amounts (only low milligram range) and are certified as GRAS. The
tablets themselves have been approved by the Health Canada and the FDA
as a New Dietary ingredient. Some have been concerned about ingesting
too much magnesium, which is possible, but normally that is only when
you are taking well over a 1,000 mg/day. Most magnesium supplements
provide 200-500 mg of magnesium. The Daily recommended intake is
400-500 mg of magnesium with perhaps 80% of the population being
deficient in this. It looks like 1 tablet only contains 80 mg of
magnesium, so that should also not pose a problem.

5) Those tablets have been/are being using in perhaps 10 clinical
trials. I have been a part of 3 of them. For example we did one on
patients with NAFLD, and they used two tablets per day. The results
were very impressive and we did not find any negative effects
Hydrogen-rich water reduces liver fat accumulation and improves liver enzyme profiles in patients with non-alcoholic fatty liver disease: a randomi... - PubMed - NCBI. This is also true for a
study we just finished with 60 subjects with metabolic syndrome who
used 3 tablets/day. The results are quite favorable, and there was no
reported harmful effects.

Anyways, there are other reasons why it appears that H2, including
those H2-producing tablets, are safe, but we still need more research
to understand things better.

Regarding thyroid hormones. I don't know of any data that shows that
H2 gas has any influence on these hormones. At least not directly.
Similarly, the is not clinical data on cortisol levels, but it is
likely that H2 can help decrease excessive cortisol levels by lowering
the offending inflammation. For example, we showed this with other
stress hormones here: Molecular hydrogen increases resilience to stress in mice

Regarding the conjecture of H2 feeding pathogenic bacteria. Yes, this
is true, as well as beneficial bacteria. H2 is a good energy source.
However, as explained in point #1 above, the intestines are already
full of H2 gas, and so adding a little bit more is unlikely to
increase the growth harmful bacteria. The growth of pathogenic
bacteria is not substrate (fuel i.e. H2) limitation, but numerous
other factors. In fact, based on simple michaelis menten kinetics, the
Km of the hydrogenase enzyme is very lower compared to the
concentration of H2 gas present. This means that the use of H2 gas is
already occurring at Vmax. As an analogy, its like the risk of
drowning in water 3 meters deep is the same as 3000 meters deep (i.e.
the risk does not increase with greater depth), so also does the rate
of growth not increase with more H2. Additionally, there is some
research that suggests that H2 may be helpful in improving the gut
microbiome and optimizing a favorable bacteria profile. For example,
Hydrogen-Rich Saline Regulates Intestinal Barrier... : Shock
Hydrogen-water ameliorates radiation-induced gastrointestinal toxicity via MyD88’s effects on the gut microbiota
Intestinal Microbiota Ecological Response to Oral Administrations of Hydrogen-Rich Water and Lactulose in Female Piglets Fed a Fusarium Toxin-Contaminated Diet
https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/10/2/144

Anyways, we still have a lot to understand and research, but the
preliminary data seems promising and the high safety profile compared
to many other substances including pharmaceuticals and nutraceuticals
(e.g. herbs and supplements) is also important.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[jb116]

Who's been using the life giving store machine and what kind of results are you noticing?

 

[Mhtro]

Which method would be the most effective for this?
Also, are there any ready to buy water bottles anywhere in the UK?

 

[GAF]

I have been using that machine. I like it. Makes me feel better overall and especially when I use cool Icelandic Glacier water in it. I also use the breathing tube and that seems to put me in a really happy mood. I drink after exercise to help with recovery. It's just part of my normal routine now. It is a quality reliable device. The website of the people who make device has good info and other products on it also. Particularly, a breathing device that is about $800. I haven't sprung for that, but I might one day.

 

[Blossom]

I’ve used it and like it a lot. I had to stop temporarily because it seemed to give me *too much* energy and I’ve been working nights recently. It’s hard to judge anything accurately when I am sleep deprived. I plan to start back up once I get my circadian rhythm back on a day schedule though.

 

[jb116]

Thanks guys..keep'em coming

 

[Inaut]

Drinking Hydrogen water 3 times daily has greatly improved my GI issues/bowel movements. It’s a game changer for me.

 

[Peater]

Can anyone recommend any brands in the UK? I have some spare cash now and am intrigued by this

 

[ecstatichamster]

I’ve been inhaling 400 mL of hydrogen per minute for 40 minutes per day and for the first time in over 20 years, my terrible headaches are completely gone. This is insanely valuable.

 

[TripleOG]

Drinking Hydrogen water 3 times daily has greatly improved my GI issues/bowel movements. It’s a game changer for me.

Very nice. Which generation method/device/brand?

I’ve been inhaling 400 mL of hydrogen per minute for 40 minutes per day and for the first time in over 20 years, my terrible headaches are completely gone. This is insanely valuable.

Good stuff.

What made me a believer was seeing my wife's pregnancy go from a daily grind to a walk-in-the-park within 2 days and stay like that.

Everyone should give it a shot, whether it be tablets, bottles, or gas generators.

 

[Inaut]

@TripleOG I'm using the H2 Nano by Hydrogen For Health (Evian bottle) and highly recommend it. I told my mom to buy one and she agreed but she didn't listen to my exact instructions and bought a lesser hydrogen water machine on amazon Oh well

 

[ecstatichamster]

Very nice. Which generation method/device/brand?



Good stuff.

What made me a believer was seeing my wife's pregnancy go from a daily grind to a walk-in-the-park within 2 days and stay like that.

Everyone should give it a shot, whether it be tablets, bottles, or gas generators.

that's a great story!

 

[Aad]

Very interesting

 

[Hermes]

I’ve been inhaling 400 mL of hydrogen per minute for 40 minutes per day and for the first time in over 20 years, my terrible headaches are completely gone. This is insanely valuable.

What device do you use to generate the gas?

 

[Hermes]

I've dabbled with Mito Essentials hydrogen pills. I remember how calm they made me feel, and very social. And the sclera turned really white.

 

[Nebula]

Very nice. Which generation method/device/brand?



Good stuff.

What made me a believer was seeing my wife's pregnancy go from a daily grind to a walk-in-the-park within 2 days and stay like that.

Everyone should give it a shot, whether it be tablets, bottles, or gas generators.

Has she given birth yet? It will be interesting to see what effects it will have on various stages of fetal development as it’s studied more. If it increases baby weight or other things long term.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I use HX600 Falcon

 

[Jing]

I use HX600 Falcon

Dam that's expensive lol