Ice Cream Causes Anxiety Attacks

[InChristAlone]

I have similar issues and recently thought I would have to stop eating ice cream. At one stage I was told my insulin levels were too high and that causes anxiety. I'm not sure whether this means insulin resistance or hypoglycaemia.Ive since read here somewhere that a high insulin response is good.I would like to stop the anxiety attacks. I noticed tonight after having a balanced meal ( meat and.veg) it settled.Ice cream might give an insulin spike do you think?

Dairy seems to be particularly good at increasing insulin. So if you do tend towards lower blood sugar you need to balance with lots of carbs!! Ice cream is basically cream and sugar with a bit of milk depending on the fat content. I think its calorie dense but nutrient poor.

 

[HDD]

I used to take thyroid, I was on it for 1.5 yrs and it got my temp and pulse up to normal but then I got my postpartum menstrual cycle 2 yrs ago and never been the same since, went off the thyroid because I was scared. Felt like I was dieing at times. Went to the ER with a panic attack once. Hormones all turned out to be low (and dr didn't test cholesterol!!!!!!!!!!!) TSH 2.2, but I've only been using progest-e, my cycles are pretty regular. But I have bad bulging veins on my hands particularly when I'm warm. My temp and pulse are still fine, pulse tends to be 90 or above though. I will get my cholesterol checked. Been avoiding getting that done for too long.

My first thought is that your pulse/temps might be higher due to stress hormones. I have had 9o+ this past year that I'm sure are from stress. Ray has written about this and that a thyroid supplement can bring it down revealing a hypothyroid state. Are you taking anything to counter estrogen besides progest-e?
Have you tried dosing 10 mg progest-e every 10 minutes while having the extreme adrenaline? I don't know if it would stop it but could be worth a try.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

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[InChristAlone]

My first thought is that your pulse/temps might be higher due to stress hormones. I have had 9o+ this past year that I'm sure are from stress. Ray has written about this and that a thyroid supplement can bring it down revealing a hypothyroid state. Are you taking anything to counter estrogen besides progest-e?
Have you tried dosing 10 mg progest-e every 10 minutes while having the extreme adrenaline? I don't know if it would stop it but could be worth a try.

I'm very cautious with hormones, I've never been one to overdo taking any hormone the highest I even went with NDT was 1.5 grains but my appetite was huge and I didn't sleep as well so I figured it was too much. But I could try lots of progesterone during an attack just to see what would happen.

 

[HDD]

I hope you don't mind me posting my thoughts. Maybe something could be of help to you? My son has had similar problems that we have been trying to figure out. He had panic attacks at work and thought he needed to go to the ER. His heart rate was very elevated. I don't recall if he was taking thyroid medication at the time. I thought blood sugar was a player but didn't really know why he was having the extreme symptoms. He still is having anxiety symptoms at times with nothing stressful to initiate these. He also struggles with intrusive thoughts that cause him to get angry and be in a bad mood. Peat has recommended increasing cholesterol so his body can make pregnenolone or supplement with it. But he emphasized cholesterol especially since my son is using t3 and should be able to make the protective hormones.

Another thought about the panic attack while on thyroid...maybe you became hyperthyroid if your cholesterol was lowered too much? Maybe not really hyper but presenting the symptoms? I have a friend that was told she was hyperthyroid because her cholesterol had gone down to 135 while on 2.5 grains of NDT. Her tsh is .006. Her cholesterol was only 165 before thyroid. She was told to back off on her thyroid dosage and she is adding fruit/sugar to increase her cholesterol.

 

[InChristAlone]

@Westside PUFAs
Age: 31, breastfeeding for 7 yrs
Gender of birth (i.e., indicate in you're "transgender"): Female
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All pharmaceutical medications you have taken in the past including any birth control, include the duration: antibiotics+prednisone for mono/strep throat for weeks, sulfa antibiotics for a month for mastitis, amoxicillin 7 days for toothache 1 yr ago, ibuprofen for any pain as a kid, acetaminophen a number of times, hydrocodone a few times for breast abscess surgery, benedryl for allergy season as a kid, loratadine for allergy season as a young adult
All dietary supplements including "natural" hormones you currently take: progest-e, niacinamide, vitamin k2 one drop sometimes, vitamin a palmitate 10000 Iu's sometimes
All dietary supplements including "natural" hormones you have taken in the past, include the duration: vitamin D at 2,000 Iu's for a couple years in the winter, vitamin A palmitate 10,000 Iu's once in a while for a few yrs, thiroyd NDT 1 grain 1.5 yrs, mag citrate for a couple yrs, mag glycinate occasionally 400mg for several months, thiamine sometimes for a couple yrs, pregnenolone a few times, progest-e for 2yrs <10mg 2nd half of cycle, BCAA's several times, activated charcoal several times, methylb12 several times a couple yrs ago, zinc gluconate 10mg several times, P5P 5mg a few times.
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General weekly diet of the last six months: In general 55% carbs, 35% fat, 10% protein, avg 2000-2200 cals aged cheese, mozz. cheese, 1-2 cans of coke a day (just quit), OJ, bread, rice, beef, pork, eggs, applesauce, watermelon, ice cream, occasional restaurant meal with fries, occasional junkfood like chips
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[InChristAlone]

I hope you don't mind me posting my thoughts. Maybe something could be of help to you? My son has had similar problems that we have been trying to figure out. He had panic attacks at work and thought he needed to go to the ER. His heart rate was very elevated. I don't recall if he was taking thyroid medication at the time. I thought blood sugar was a player but didn't really know why he was having the extreme symptoms. He still is having anxiety symptoms at times with nothing stressful to initiate these. He also struggles with intrusive thoughts that cause him to get angry and be in a bad mood. Peat has recommended increasing cholesterol so his body can make pregnenolone or supplement with it. But he emphasized cholesterol especially since my son is using t3 and should be able to make the protective hormones.

Another thought about the panic attack while on thyroid...maybe you became hyperthyroid if your cholesterol was lowered too much? Maybe not really hyper but presenting the symptoms? I have a friend that was told she was hyperthyroid because her cholesterol had gone down to 135 while on 2.5 grains of NDT. Her tsh is .006. Her cholesterol was only 165 before thyroid. She was told to back off on her thyroid dosage and she is adding fruit/sugar to increase her cholesterol.

Thanks for your thoughts, i'm not so sure it was cholesterol although it could have been, I had lost a lot of weight postpartum ended up the skinniest I've ever been, and had throat tightness which I thought might have been thyroid disease. My cholesterol while on thyroid was just over 200. Does your son still get anxiety attacks?

 

[HDD]

He tells me some days that he's having a lot of anxiety. I used to wonder how he could have anxiety while sitting at home but now I understand the physiological reasons a little better. No panic attacks but he is not working and avoids social situations. What triggers it is hard to pinpoint because his diet changes daily as do the supplements he takes. He does say he feels better with a lot of sugar and has been supplementing extra salt recently. I think he had lost weight from under eating (started straterra) when the extreme panic attacks were happening. He also recently started adding extra coconut oil to his diet so I am wondering if this has caused his cholesterol to lower and is causing the return of negative symptoms and anxiety. Hopefully you will figure this out soon as I know how very frustrating it is.

 

[InChristAlone]

He tells me some days that he's having a lot of anxiety. I used to wonder how he could have anxiety while sitting at home but now I understand the physiological reasons a little better. No panic attacks but he is not working and avoids social situations. What triggers it is hard to pinpoint because his diet changes daily as do the supplements he takes. He does say he feels better with a lot of sugar and has been supplementing extra salt recently. I think he had lost weight from under eating (started straterra) when the extreme panic attacks were happening. He also recently started adding extra coconut oil to his diet so I am wondering if this has caused his cholesterol to lower and is causing the return of negative symptoms and anxiety. Hopefully you will figure this out soon as I know how very frustrating it is.

Thank-you , yes I would not wish panic disorder on anyone, it can destroy your life if you are not strong enough to get to the root of it. I still don't have much of a social life, no real friends outside of family and facebook. I have only had maybe 2 or 3 major attacks in 6 months, I can go a week without anxiety then all of sudden rears its ugly head again. I usually end up taking cyproheptadine and feel back to my self again. So I wonder if histamine intolerance could be at the root too.

 

[HDD]

That's great that you see clear effects from the cypro. I think cyproheptadine would help him a lot but he looked up side effects and won't touch it now. I'm going to tell him about it helping you. Thank you!

 

[InChristAlone]

That's great that you see clear effects from the cypro. I think cyproheptadine would help him a lot but he looked up side effects and won't touch it now. I'm going to tell him about it helping you. Thank you!

Ok great, yeah it does have side effects, most drugs do, and I usually can't persist through them for longer than a week so I use it only when I need it.

 

[InChristAlone]

What about sorbet? It has no fat, but not as many calories either. Have you considered a dairy allergy/intolerance?

I am sorry I forgot to reply, but I love that you commented because I'm a fan of yours! Yes I have considered an intolerance, its just that symptoms can come and go, I generally can tolerate cheese unless I don't balance with enough sugar, sometimes I think this is all in my head! Because I can have good days where it seems like it doesn't matter what I eat. Maybe it really is the coldness of the food and has nothing to do with fat content. Its just hard when I haven't been making much ground on getting my energy back. I would drink coffee if it didn't make me so high on adrenaline, but if I'm going to be experiencing it either way maybe I should go back on coffee for the energy and motivation factor.

 

[tara]

but my appetite was huge

Would you have been eating reasonable post-partum hard-working mother amounts of food? Like 3000-3500 cal? Or did it just feel huge because you were used to getting by on less?

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Just for clarity, the OP asked for my advice. For anyone who may not know, my advice is not very “Peat" in terms of how many other people, not Peat himself, define “Peat.” This is “The Ray Peat Forum” but it’s not “The Ray Peat Diet” forum. I think it comes down to the heading at the top; “Perceive, Think, Act.”

I appreciate that you want my opinion but I want you to know that it puts me in the uncomfortable position of feeling like a “guru.” After Bruno’s website (peatarian.com) closed last year and I came here, I started to receive many PM’s from people, and while it’s flattering, it does make me feel wary of giving advice. I don’t want people to come back a few months later and say, “yeah, I tried that low fat/starch thing, and it didn’t work, I felt horrible one day, went to the ER, etc.” And that is one reason why I plan to not give advice anymore and instead just state what I do, because if I do it for myself, then obviously I think everyone should do it (if you have problems), providing that said person doesn’t have any specific medical conditions that would require otherwise. Nonetheless, you seem like a very nice person so I’ll give it a go one last time.

You’re weight is good. Try to stay there. If you start to gain more fat tissue (which you have from the cellulite you mentioned), that’s a sign that what you’re doing isn’t right. Many people hate me for saying that but as I’ve stated, you’ve asked me for my opinion and I’m telling you my opinion. I completely disagree with the notion that “you gotta gain fat to heal.” That is just something lazy people say. That is just something that people who can’t put down the pizza say. That is just something that people who are stuck in the pleasure trap say (we're all stuck in the pleasure trap by our human nature but the key is to defend against it enough to avoid problems). I have experience with this with myself and friends who were/still are obese. People will say, “well, she’s lean but she still has problems.” I never said being lean cures all problems. I said that if you’re already lean, then you’re already ahead of the game compared to most people who suffer from Western ailments, and that you shouldn’t wrongfully, purposely, gain fat because some lazy, pleasure trap-stuck person told you that you should. Gaining excess fat tissue will just cause more problems. The only time gaining fat tissue would help someone is if they were severely underweight, aka, burning through their subcutaneous fat.

You’ve been breastfeeding so that puts you in a unique state. Your hormones will change depending on when you’re done breastfeeding and if you plan on having more children. After you're done with that, things should improve easier. Aspirin is fine if taken after a meal. I think low doses of aspirin are better than high doses. But I don’t think it has to be used daily. After seeing so many people report problems with cyproheptadine, I think it’s best avoided. When asked about panic attacks, Peat said: "With high glycogen stores, minor stresses don't tip the system into glycolytic metabolism easily." That fits in line with a high carb, low fat diet. I think many supplements/medications can lead to more panic attacks than quelling them.

You may have used too much antibiotics. I personally had to use antibiotics last year and my diet helps with my bacteria and I also consume kombucha/sauerkraut/coconut kefir. I would avoid benedryl. I don’t think vitamin A is necessary to take. A few studies have shown an increased risk of bone fracture with high intakes of vitamin A—over 5,000 international units per day but not with beta-carotene. I think that one should only being taking synthetic T4 if they are truly hypothyroid. I do not think taking t3 is good. I do not think NDT is good. Taking thyroid as a crutch leads to problems if you’re not truly hypothyroid. Not everyone can be a thyroid dosage master like Peat. He’s been taking it since the 70’s and he knows exactly how much he needs. The average person is not as savvy as him and will not understand how to do it properly. I would avoid all seafood. It’s risky today. I get selenium from my diet as well as the occasional brazil nut. Selenium is really the only value in seafood and you don’t need seafood to get selenium. I like to drink spring water everyday and not too much, obviously. You’re sleep, poop, and toiletries look good. Since you’re in the mid-west, I think taking a good vitamin D to get to a level of 50 ng/ml is good but taking too much vitamin D can be toxic. You should get some updated blood work.

You said: “I still don't have much of a social life, no real friends outside of family and facebook.“ - This is both a positive and negative thing. It’s negative because having good social interaction with people is important because we're meant for a village. But it’s positive because too much social eating today means too much eating foods that will continue to cause problems. You have to find a balance. It's what you eat 90% of the time that matters.

To answer your questions, I’m not concerned with protein and calcium. As far as what I personally eat, the low fat, high starch and fruit diet, all I can tell you is that it works for me. I’m 29, about 5’11” and male, 165 pounds, but if you’re interested in my diet from a female perspective, then it is only logical to look at females who eat the diet and are having/been having success for years. All I can do is link you to them and you can watch/read their stuff and take from it what you will. Again, obviously, you don't have to agree with every single thing they say, but as I've said, you've asked me and this is my answer. One thing that should be absolutely clear, is that people who eat this way do not restrict calories, and do not live on "lettuce and carrots." We stuff our faces with as much boiled/streamed starch, and fruit as we care for. It's high carb, low fat, and it's enough protein, and calories don't matter to us, we simply eat to satiation. It takes a re-programming to eat this way. I'm not vegan because I still eat occasional low fat meats. You don't have to be vegan to benefit from this lifestyle, you just have to eat the food 90% of the time. I do not believe that the world has to eat like me. This is just what I do, what works for me, and if you have problems then you may want to try it. That is all.

A Day In The Life Of Chef AJ

How to Eat Healthfully Anywhere! Live Webinar with Chef AJ

Brenda Davis R.D

Lani Muelrath

NaturallyStefanie

High Carb Hannah

Melissa Alexandria

Mango Island Mamma

Robyn SweetSugarCrumble

Lily of "whyoweyou"

Mommy Tang

BananaBlondie108 (she swears a lot)

Happyandhealthy96 -WHY U GOTTA CARB UP DAILY + MY FOOD BABY :p

Bonny Rebecca

Nina and Randa

Lily of Legit Nutrition Hawaii, how she cured her hypothyroidism

Li-San

iamveganlicious

Why People Fail On A Low-Fat Vegan Diet

 

[InChristAlone]

Would you have been eating reasonable post-partum hard-working mother amounts of food? Like 3000-3500 cal? Or did it just feel huge because you were used to getting by on less?

Yeah there was a point where I was getting up to 3000 calories, and it helped me put some weight back on when I got so skinny, it felt like a lot at the time, but wasn't a struggle to eat like it is now. I'm really struggling to eat more than 2000 at the moment. I had started eating a lot more after losing some weight over the winter following youreatopia.com and I was making 2500 then all of sudden food just made me feel full and its been a struggle for a few months to get past 2200. Plus I had been getting pounding heart at night following eating bigger meals towards the end of the day, and was losing more sleep because of it. I've recently gotten a handle of the heart stuff, and it sucks because its leading me to think that my body can't handle larger amounts of food and maybe it really can't! Maybe my metabolism is too low.

 

[InChristAlone]

Just for clarity, the OP asked for my advice. For anyone who may not know, my advice is not very “Peat" in terms of how many other people, not Peat himself, define “Peat.” This is “The Ray Peat Forum” but it’s not “The Ray Peat Diet” forum. I think it comes down to the heading at the top; “Perceive, Think, Act.”

I appreciate that you want my opinion but I want you to know that it puts me in the uncomfortable position of feeling like a “guru.” After Bruno’s website (peatarian.com) closed last year and I came here, I started to receive many PM’s from people, and while it’s flattering, it does make me feel wary of giving advice. I don’t want people to come back a few months later and say, “yeah, I tried that low fat/starch thing, and it didn’t work, I felt horrible one day, went to the ER, etc.” And that is one reason why I plan to not give advice anymore and instead just state what I do, because if I do it for myself, then obviously I think everyone should do it (if you have problems), providing that said person doesn’t have any specific medical conditions that would require otherwise. Nonetheless, you seem like a very nice person so I’ll give it a go one last time.

You’re weight is good. Try to stay there. If you start to gain more fat tissue (which you have from the cellulite you mentioned), that’s a sign that what you’re doing isn’t right. Many people hate me for saying that but as I’ve stated, you’ve asked me for my opinion and I’m telling you my opinion. I completely disagree with the notion that “you gotta gain fat to heal.” That is just something lazy people say. That is just something that people who can’t put down the pizza say. That is just something that people who are stuck in the pleasure trap say (we're all stuck in the pleasure trap by our human nature but the key is to defend against it enough to avoid problems). I have experience with this with myself and friends who were/still are obese. People will say, “well, she’s lean but she still has problems.” I never said being lean cures all problems. I said that if you’re already lean, then you’re already ahead of the game compared to most people who suffer from Western ailments, and that you shouldn’t wrongfully, purposely, gain fat because some lazy, pleasure trap-stuck person told you that you should. Gaining excess fat tissue will just cause more problems. The only time gaining fat tissue would help someone is if they were severely underweight, aka, burning through their subcutaneous fat.

You’ve been breastfeeding so that puts you in a unique state. Your hormones will change depending on when you’re done breastfeeding and if you plan on having more children. After you're done with that, things should improve easier. Aspirin is fine if taken after a meal. I think low doses of aspirin are better than high doses. But I don’t think it has to be used daily. After seeing so many people report problems with cyproheptadine, I think it’s best avoided. When asked about panic attacks, Peat said: "With high glycogen stores, minor stresses don't tip the system into glycolytic metabolism easily." That fits in line with a high carb, low fat diet. I think many supplements/medications can lead to more panic attacks than quelling them.

You may have used too much antibiotics. I personally had to use antibiotics last year and my diet helps with my bacteria and I also consume kombucha/sauerkraut/coconut kefir. I would avoid benedryl. I don’t think vitamin A is necessary to take. A few studies have shown an increased risk of bone fracture with high intakes of vitamin A—over 5,000 international units per day but not with beta-carotene. I think that one should only being taking synthetic T4 if they are truly hypothyroid. I do not think taking t3 is good. I do not think NDT is good. Taking thyroid as a crutch leads to problems if you’re not truly hypothyroid. Not everyone can be a thyroid dosage master like Peat. He’s been taking it since the 70’s and he knows exactly how much he needs. The average person is not as savvy as him and will not understand how to do it properly. I would avoid all seafood. It’s risky today. I get selenium from my diet as well as the occasional brazil nut. Selenium is really the only value in seafood and you don’t need seafood to get selenium. I like to drink spring water everyday and not too much, obviously. You’re sleep, poop, and toiletries look good. Since you’re in the mid-west, I think taking a good vitamin D to get to a level of 50 ng/ml is good but taking too much vitamin D can be toxic. You should get some updated blood work.

You said: “I still don't have much of a social life, no real friends outside of family and facebook.“ - This is both a positive and negative thing. It’s negative because having good social interaction with people is important because we're meant for a village. But it’s positive because too much social eating today means too much eating foods that will continue to cause problems. You have to find a balance. It's what you eat 90% of the time that matters.

To answer your questions, I’m not concerned with protein and calcium. As far as what I personally eat, the low fat, high starch and fruit diet, all I can tell you is that it works for me. I’m 29, about 5’11” and male, 165 pounds, but if you’re interested in my diet from a female perspective, then it is only logical to look at females who eat the diet and are having/been having success for years. All I can do is link you to them and you can watch/read their stuff and take from it what you will. Again, obviously, you don't have to agree with every single thing they say, but as I've said, you've asked me and this is my answer. One thing that should be absolutely clear, is that people who eat this way do not restrict calories, and do not live on "lettuce and carrots." We stuff our faces with as much boiled/streamed starch, and fruit as we care for. It's high carb, low fat, and it's enough protein, and calories don't matter to us, we simply eat to satiation. It takes a re-programming to eat this way. I'm not vegan because I still eat occasional low fat meats. You don't have to be vegan to benefit from this lifestyle, you just have to eat the food 90% of the time. I do not believe that the world has to eat like me. This is just what I do, what works for me, and if you have problems then you may want to try it. That is all.

A Day In The Life Of Chef AJ

How to Eat Healthfully Anywhere! Live Webinar with Chef AJ

Brenda Davis R.D

Lani Muelrath

NaturallyStefanie

High Carb Hannah

Melissa Alexandria

Mango Island Mamma

Robyn SweetSugarCrumble

Lily of "whyoweyou"

Mommy Tang

BananaBlondie108 (she swears a lot)

Happyandhealthy96 -WHY U GOTTA CARB UP DAILY + MY FOOD BABY :p

Bonny Rebecca

Nina and Randa

Lily of Legit Nutrition Hawaii, how she cured her hypothyroidism

Li-San

iamveganlicious

Why People Fail On A Low-Fat Vegan Diet

Thanks so much for the advice, I know it is hard to make recommendations online. I totally agree with you about having good glycogen stores to prevent the stress reactions and that is something that fat cannot do! So I'm not sure why everyone says ice cream is stress relieving. I will definitely do more research on eating that way thank you for all those links! I'm familiar with 801010 just never put it into practice because I failed at veganism. I am also not sold on antibiotics and I know they can do a lot of damage, I know a Peaty guy who has chronic c.diff after a round. Yeah I really try not to take meds, oops I forgot something I took when I was 18-- lexapro, only lasted 9 months because I ended up suicidal.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Thanks so much for the advice, I know it is hard to make recommendations online. I totally agree with you about having good glycogen stores to prevent the stress reactions and that is something that fat cannot do! So I'm not sure why everyone says ice cream is stress relieving. I will definitely do more research on eating that way thank you for all those links! I'm familiar with 801010 just never put it into practice because I failed at veganism. I am also not sold on antibiotics and I know they can do a lot of damage, I know a Peaty guy who has chronic c.diff after a round. Yeah I really try not to take meds, oops I forgot something I took when I was 18-- lexapro, only lasted 9 months because I ended up suicidal.

801010 is more the fruitarian style. Those girls are the starch style, to varying degrees of eating more fruit in the warmer climates/seasons but the starch staples are there. And remember that eating low fat starch based does not equal "vegan." I would never eat the amount of cheese you're currently eating.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

And there is a difference between gaining fat mass and gaining muscle mass. The NaturallyStefanie girl is a good example of one who works out properly, not too much, and is not "manly" looking with muscles. I think her feminine features increased by doing what she does.

 

[InChristAlone]

801010 is more the fruitarian style. Those girls are the starch style, to varying degrees of eating more fruit in the warmer climates/seasons but the starch staples are there. And remember that eating low fat starch based does not equal "vegan." I would never eat the amount of cheese you're currently eating.

Yes I do eat a lot of cheese, but I was under the impression that I needed to meet minimum RDA for calcium and since I don't eat any vegetables I feel like I need the dairy. I still can't wrap my head around a high starch diet in terms of calcium haha. Yeah I couldn't stick to fruitarian, there just isn't enough good fruit to choose from for most of the year.

 

[InChristAlone]

And there is a difference between gaining fat mass and gaining muscle mass. The NaturallyStefanie girl is a good example of one who works out properly, not too much, and is not "manly" looking with muscles. I think her feminine features increased by doing what she does.

Yeah I definitely gained fat, barely any muscle. I am the same weight yet look more fluffy.