Intense Stress During Passage Of Food Through Large Intestine

[rei]

as i have been doing exercises to improve my posture over the last year or so i have realiably been able to achieve something quite similar to what op and dfspcc20 have described in this thread, it became so regular i could reliably predict it. When the stretching i did caused large shifts in fascial lines of tension ever so slightly improving posture i could often immediately feel that in less than 5 minutes there will be diarrhea. When under tension the membranes will produce thick, thrombin-rich secretions, and when the tension releases it will revert to more normal watery consistency. If the tension has been chronic the result is diarrhea as the change is so drastic, but normally the result will just be increased flow, like when the tensioning and relaxation cycles follow that of bulk food transitioning in the intestines.

Completely off topic i believe the cycles of nasal congestion follow same pattern. When you get "a cold" it is because your chronically stressed mucous membranes were able to finally relax and flush out the built up damage. A fever can directly facilitate this as body temperature is directly proportional to metabolic activity and thus energy potential.

 

[gaze]

Extreme Endotoxin Reaction. White Mushrooms. Portobello

Possibly relevant?

 

[Recoen]

Thank you, @Recoen. I have not significantly increased the frequency or amount of carrot salad or mushrooms, but I eat both almost daily. (Sometimes I'll miss the mushrooms for a week or so if I'm not up to cooking, or I'll miss both if I can't eat.) I should try charcoal again, but in the past, it hasn't done much for these GI stress reactions. I'll look into calcium d-glucarate.

I'm not familiar with oxalate dumping. What symptoms does it usually produce?

Do you ever have problems with loose/ burning stool?
Bile acid malabsorption - Wikipedia

 

[Creative Nature]

Do you ever have problems with loose/ burning stool?
Bile acid malabsorption - Wikipedia

No burning stool. I occasionally get loose stool. Maybe I'd get it more often if I didn't take cyproheptadine.

 

[Creative Nature]

Extreme Endotoxin Reaction. White Mushrooms. Portobello

Possibly relevant?

Thanks for the heads up. When I'm busy or having trouble standing up for long, I may go without mushrooms for a week or so. To date, I haven't noticed that dropping mushrooms reduces the intensity of my symptoms. But I'll watch out for adverse responses.

 

[Creative Nature]

In the first ~10 minutes of the following interview, Georgi's description of systemic endotoxin poisoning matches my lower GI problem quite well. Incompletely digested food (in my case, protein) enters the colon, and bacteria feast on it and produce endotoxin. The endotoxin passes to the liver, which is too sick or overburdened to detoxify all the endotoxin, so some endotoxin passes into general circulation, causing (in my case) a severe stress reaction.



My condition is pretty bad now, though better than when I went to the ER. Symptoms are lasting most of the day, and I'm having increasing difficulty just walking around my place. So it's time to reconsider charcoal, antibiotics, etc.

I've started the charcoal protocol Georgi recommends in the interview (1 tbsp/day with coconut oil for a few days).

I'll probably give antibiotics another try; I suspect the doses I've used in the past have been too low. I have penicillin, tetracycline, and Idealabs' camphosal on hand.

Questions for readers:
-- Any favorite antibiotic protocols for combating endotoxin overload?
-- Any favorite methods for improving digestion of protein?
-- If you knew that poorly digested protein was feeding gut bacteria, would you cut back on some or all proteins temporarily while you worked to get the endotoxin under control?

TIA.

 

[dfspcc20]

In the first ~10 minutes of the following interview, Georgi's description of systemic endotoxin poisoning matches my lower GI problem quite well. Incompletely digested food (in my case, protein) enters the colon, and bacteria feast on it and produce endotoxin. The endotoxin passes to the liver, which is too sick or overburdened to detoxify all the endotoxin, so some endotoxin passes into general circulation, causing (in my case) a severe stress reaction.



My condition is pretty bad now, though better than when I went to the ER. Symptoms are lasting most of the day, and I'm having increasing difficulty just walking around my place. So it's time to reconsider charcoal, antibiotics, etc.

I've started the charcoal protocol Georgi recommends in the interview (1 tbsp/day with coconut oil for a few days).

I'll probably give antibiotics another try; I suspect the doses I've used in the past have been too low. I have penicillin, tetracycline, and Idealabs' camphosal on hand.

Questions for readers:
-- Any favorite antibiotic protocols for combating endotoxin overload?
-- Any favorite methods for improving digestion of protein?
-- If you knew that poorly digested protein was feeding gut bacteria, would you cut back on some or all proteins temporarily while you worked to get the endotoxin under control?

TIA.

@Creative Nature any update on how this has been working for you?

Though my "attacks" have been much less frequent than yours, I have felt there is a connection with endotoxin.

 

[Creative Nature]

@Creative Nature any update on how this has been working for you?

Though my "attacks" have been much less frequent than yours, I have felt there is a connection with endotoxin.

I'll try to post an update soon, but for now, I want to thank you because...

...You were right. It turned out any ingestion of either tocopherols or MCT oil, even small amounts, was enough to irritate my GI badly.

Stopping all oral supplements containing MCT or tocopherols cut my chest pain from extremely intense to mostly tolerable. Oral MCT and tocopherols aren't the primary causes of my GI problems -- I still have other symptoms, including some nasty neurological ones -- but they definitely contributed.

Many thanks.

 

[Creative Nature]

Symptoms continue to evolve. Neurological symptoms (numbness and tingling in various body parts, strange sensations of head pressure, etc.) disappeared for a while but returned recently with a vengeance. Sometimes when matter is moving through the colon, it feels like oxidative metabolism is largely shutting down -- I get cold, tense, and short of breath, and the neurological symptoms go crazy.

I tried Georgi's charcoal protocol for endotoxin poisoning (described above). The protocol is one of the few things so far that helped, but it also made me extremely constipated, so I had to abandon it.

I've tried higher doses of penicillin (up to 200 mg 1X/day) without much luck.

I'm now up to ~450 mg/day of cascara sagrada, which has increased the speed of intestinal transit and made bowel movements more comfortable. Bamboo shoots (another recent experiment) have similar effects. Sometimes faster transit seems to make the stress reactions to transit worse, sometimes it makes them better.

Since estrogen promotes intestinal permeability, I've tried a couple of weeks of low dose exemestane (2.5 mg/day). No obvious impact on my GI problems, but possibly other benefits.

Adding regular coffee to my decaf has been good for mood and energy, and occasionally it seems like it might be helping a little with the lower GI problems.

So no breakthroughs to report, but some promising experiments.

 

[gaze]

Symptoms continue to evolve. Neurological symptoms (numbness and tingling in various body parts, strange sensations of head pressure, etc.) disappeared for a while but returned recently with a vengeance. Sometimes when matter is moving through the colon, it feels like oxidative metabolism is largely shutting down -- I get cold, tense, and short of breath, and the neurological symptoms go crazy.

I tried Georgi's charcoal protocol for endotoxin poisoning (described above). The protocol is one of the few things so far that helped, but it also made me extremely constipated, so I had to abandon it.

I've tried higher doses of penicillin (up to 200 mg 1X/day) without much luck.

I'm now up to ~450 mg/day of cascara sagrada, which has increased the speed of intestinal transit and made bowel movements more comfortable. Bamboo shoots (another recent experiment) have similar effects. Sometimes faster transit seems to make the stress reactions to transit worse, sometimes it makes them better.

Since estrogen promotes intestinal permeability, I've tried a couple of weeks of low dose exemestane (2.5 mg/day). No obvious impact on my GI problems, but possibly other benefits.

Adding regular coffee to my decaf has been good for mood and energy, and occasionally it seems like it might be helping a little with the lower GI problems.

So no breakthroughs to report, but some promising experiments.

Are you still eating coconut oil daily? If cutting MCT oil had a positive impact, cutting coconut oil might as well although you may have already tried that. (this is commas btw, just changed the name for fun)

 

[Creative Nature]

Are you still eating coconut oil daily? If cutting MCT oil had a positive impact, cutting coconut oil might as well although you may have already tried that. (this is commas btw, just changed the name for fun)

Thanks for the tip, @gaze. Yes, I still use organic, refined coconut oil daily. I'll try dropping it some time. If I recall correctly -- and I may not, so no one should rely on this statement -- RP has made criticisms of MCT oil that do not apply to coconut oil. I think he may have said the digestive tract doesn't handle the form of MCTs used in supplements properly.

 

[gaze]

Thanks for the tip, @gaze. Yes, I still use organic, refined coconut oil daily. I'll try dropping it some time. If I recall correctly -- and I may not, so no one should rely on this statement -- RP has made criticisms of MCT oil that do not apply to coconut oil. I think he may have said the digestive tract doesn't handle the form of MCTs used in supplements properly.

yea that's correct, i think he said MCTS made him smell like a goat, and they generally move faster through the digestive track. i have heard of sensitivities to coconut oil before though, even refined. I wonder if the metabolic rate increase from coconut oil might not be the best for people with low energy reserves, but i'm not sure. I think maybe digesting any fat can be a little hard when thyroid is low, but it can also be really therapeutic for some people. so i guess it's just individual expiermention

 

[Creative Nature]

yea that's correct, i think he said MCTS made him smell like a goat, and they generally move faster through the digestive track. i have heard of sensitivities to coconut oil before though, even refined. I wonder if the metabolic rate increase from coconut oil might not be the best for people with low energy reserves, but i'm not sure. I think maybe digesting any fat can be a little hard when thyroid is low, but it can also be really therapeutic for some people. so i guess it's just individual expiermention

Thanks. You raise a good point about coconut oil's impact on metabolic rate.

Some of my GI symptoms (especially the gastritis described in another thread) seem to become less intense when my metabolic rate increases. And less intense symptoms mean I can eat a LOT more and work on fixing nutritional deficiencies with more liver, oysters, and other protein-rich foods.

The catch is that the oral supplements I used to increase my metabolic rate in the past (taurine, methylene blue, Energin, high dose B1 and B3...) eventually ended up irritating my GI and undoing the good work they'd done. And yesterday, even coffee was bothering my stomach. I'm seriously considering thyroid -- maybe IdeaLabs' synthetic T3/T4 combo, TyroMix, heavily diluted.

 

[dfspcc20]

@Creative Nature
Glad to hear cutting out MCT and Tocopherols helped.

What was Georgi's Charcoal/Coconut Oil protocol? I was taking a break from the forum for a couple months so I might have missed it.

Also, did you mention if you've tried any forms of magnesium? Mg bicarbonate lately has been doing wonders for my sleep and relaxing. We recently discovered my youngest child had pinworms, which probably meant the entire family had it. I found some references saying pinworm infection can deplete or interfere with magnesium. I think you really have to try hard to get enough magnesium on a Ray Peat diet to begin with, especially if trying to get around a 2:1 Ca/Mg ratio, and if something else is interfering with it, that can easily lead to a deficiency.
Deficiency can definitely explain some of the neurological issues & tingling, as well as chest and head sensations and reaction to stress in general.

Anyway, just a theory for now...

 

[gaze]

@Creative Nature
Glad to hear cutting out MCT and Tocopherols helped.

What was Georgi's Charcoal/Coconut Oil protocol? I was taking a break from the forum for a couple months so I might have missed it.

Also, did you mention if you've tried any forms of magnesium? Mg bicarbonate lately has been doing wonders for my sleep and relaxing. We recently discovered my youngest child had pinworms, which probably meant the entire family had it. I found some references saying pinworm infection can deplete or interfere with magnesium. I think you really have to try hard to get enough magnesium on a Ray Peat diet to begin with, especially if trying to get around a 2:1 Ca/Mg ratio, and if something else is interfering with it, that can easily lead to a deficiency.
Deficiency can definitely explain some of the neurological issues & tingling, as well as chest and head sensations and reaction to stress in general.

Anyway, just a theory for now...

what is the official pinworm treatment? Is it a quick round of antibiotics?

 

[dfspcc20]

what is the official pinworm treatment? Is it a quick round of antibiotics?

There are OTC Pyrantel Pamoate suspensions available in the US. Though reinfection/autoinfection is still likely unless you're able to follow meticulous hygiene afterwards for at least 3 weeks. Near impossible if you have kids. This is what we ended up doing, but I don't want to keep using it due to "other" ingredients in the suspension: Banana Flavor, Citric Acid, Glycerin, Lecithin, Magnesium Aluminum Silicate, Methylcellulose, Povidone, Simethicone, Sodium Benzoate, Sodium Citrate, Sodium Saccharin, Sorbitol.

Ray Peat recommended sublimed/precipitated sulfur, but I have no idea what dosage.

Alternative treatments include: raw garlic, MSM, food-grade diatomaceous earth. I have no idea how effective these are, or how practical with young kids.

 

[Perry Staltic]

The right gut bacteria are essential to good health. Did you resupply with probiotics after the penicillin?

 

[Creative Nature]

@Creative Nature
Glad to hear cutting out MCT and Tocopherols helped.

What was Georgi's Charcoal/Coconut Oil protocol? I was taking a break from the forum for a couple months so I might have missed it.

Also, did you mention if you've tried any forms of magnesium? Mg bicarbonate lately has been doing wonders for my sleep and relaxing. We recently discovered my youngest child had pinworms, which probably meant the entire family had it. I found some references saying pinworm infection can deplete or interfere with magnesium. I think you really have to try hard to get enough magnesium on a Ray Peat diet to begin with, especially if trying to get around a 2:1 Ca/Mg ratio, and if something else is interfering with it, that can easily lead to a deficiency.
Deficiency can definitely explain some of the neurological issues & tingling, as well as chest and head sensations and reaction to stress in general.

Anyway, just a theory for now...

If memory serves, Georgi's charcoal protocol for endotoxin was 1 tbsp of charcoal daily with coconut oil for a few days, and then the same dose with coconut oil 2-3X per week until symptoms resolve. He describes the protocol and gives a great explanation of endotoxin poisoning in the first 10 minutes (highly recommended) of the following interview:


Thanks for the suggestion regarding magnesium and for sharing your experiences.

I used to get a decent amount of magnesium from the combination of fruit juice, coffee, and magnesium bicarb water, but my gastritis has gotten bad enough so that I don't tolerate any of these sources now. And it's possible that after using high doses of B vitamins on and off (haven't used large doses for at least a few months), I may have built up a magnesium deficiency. Looks like I'll have to rely on transdermal magnesium for now.

Since my GI problems do seem to respond to some degree to increased metabolism and I'm definitely hypothyroid, I want to re-start thyroid supplementation...Which means I need to increase magnesium quickly.

 

[Creative Nature]

The right gut bacteria are essential to good health. Did you resupply with probiotics after the penicillin?

Thanks for the tip. No, haven't tried probiotics recently (other than Mega Sporebiotics, which supposedly produce mild antibiotics in the gut). I consume a fair amount of goat milk, so hopefully the less destructive species have something to eat (but not too much).

 

[gaze]

do you get other nasal symptoms besides shortness of breath when it happens? some times I find if I eat bread, I'll either sneeze a lot or I'll get a ton of clear mucus discharge. I have felt the shortness of breath as well, but for me personally that happens more so if I eat too much phosphate relative to calcium, if I don't salt things enough, If I don't take vitamin D, etc, but I know you've already tried/doing these things. Gut problems are the worst, all of life at the end of the day comes down to food digestion, so for those of us battling it it's like life is constantly being suppressed.