IP6 For Iron Chelation

[gbolduev]

I have no idea how sugar increases metabolism. Sugar puts pressure on zinc and manganese which are needed for insulin. Also sugar increase CO2. If your CO2 is high , calcium and magnesium will go in the cell and suppress sodium and potassium actually lowering metabolism. May be your conversion from T4 to T3 goes up on sugar if you have normal insulin. If you dont have insulin it will go down on sugar. Same as with raw food people , first they get a boost since T4 converts into T3/ But hey that conversion takes nutrients and in the end they burn out and get wrinkly since they run low on zinc in their diet. That is why PH of your blood will regulate metabolism primarily, and for one person sugar will increase metabolism for another one it will kill it

uhhh

Besides binding with the cytoplasm, the carbon dioxide can be changed into carbonic acid, by chemically combining with water. Carbonic acid is hydrophilic, and so it quickly leaves the cell, taking with it some of the oppositely charged ions, such as calcium and sodium. The formation of carbonic acid, which is constantly streaming out of the respiring cell, causes some water and some positively ionized metals to leave the cell, in an "active" process, that doesn't require any mysterious pumps.

As the blood passes through the lungs, carbon dioxide leaves the system, and as carbonic acid is converted to carbon dioxide, water is left behind in the blood, along with the counterions (of alkaline metals or earths), accounting for slight differences in pH and osmolarity between the bloodstream and the tissue cells.

Since the formation of carbon dioxide lowers the intracellular pH, and the formation of lactic acid raises it (through the reaction of NADH with pyruvate), the proteins in the cell become more strongly negatively charged under the influence of oxygen deprivation, or under the influence of these hormones. In the cell with high pH and increased negative electrical charge, the positively charged calcium ion is absorbed into the cytoplasm. The calcium can enter from the relatively concentrated external fluid, but it can also be released from acidic intracellular stores, the way serotonin is released by a disturbance of pH.

LMAO Body is regulatory. If you increase sugar, calcium and magnesium will go into the the cell and sodium and potassium will come out not sodium and calcium.That is done to stop metabolism not to produce CO2.

 

[Such_Saturation]

But why would it do like that and not the other way? Sorry for getting philosophical here...

 

[gbolduev]

But why would it do like that and not the other way? Sorry for getting philosophical here...

Because the body will do anything to control PHs in and out of cells for enzymes to work. I

 

[Such_Saturation]

But why would it do like that and not the other way? Sorry for getting philosophical here...

Because the body will do anything to control PHs in and out of cells for enzymes to work. I

But then why would it be a problem to raise CO[sub]2[/sub] with sugar?

 

[4peatssake]

(but I don't wan't to give 4peats a coronary! )

You wish. :P
I don't care what you say narouz or anyone else for that matter.
But I do request that you keep the anti-Peat sentiment and disinformation away from new people, especially those asking for help and expecting answers within a Ray Peat context, as well as separate from the RP discussion area of the forum, so people who actually wish to discuss Ray Peat in context at least have a chance to hear and recognize his views above all the drivel.

The moderation we do here is never to stifle discussion nor put Peat on a pedestal as some inerrant being but to prevent those who serve only to disrupt and detract and shut down his voice be prevented from doing so. Unfortunately, you don't seem able to understand that.

 

[narouz]

The moderation we do here is never to stifle discussion nor put Peat on a pedestal as some inerrant being but to prevent those who serve only to disrupt and detract and shut down his voice be prevented from doing so. Unfortunately, you don't seem able to understand that.

I daresay you underestimate me, 4peats
I think I may indeed be able to understand that!

Personally, I wouldn't characterize this thread that way--
as serving "only to disrupt and detract and shut down his voice."
Is that really the way you look at it?

But I do request that you keep the anti-Peat sentiment and disinformation away from new people....

Here too, I personally don't see this thread as containing "disinformation."
Without looking the term up,
that seems like a word for what someone like Stalin or Sadaam Hussein might do--
an effort to control and manipulate people through propaganda.

I see it more as some posters simply questioning Peat in some areas.
Honestly questioning.
Not calculatedly and cynically trying, like KGB agents, to undermine a political foe. :)

...as well as separate from the RP discussion area of the forum...

I don't have a problem with this.
I simply assumed you would move it (to protect the innocent) as you have in the past.
If you look upthread you will see that I even suggested a new
and more X-rated separation mechanism,
so that even the most gullible could not fail to see evil ideas clearly marked "Danger!"

...so people who actually wish to discuss Ray Peat in context at least have a chance to hear and recognize his views above all the drivel.

One woman's drivel is another person's sizzle.

 

[Stuart]

(but I don't wan't to give 4peats a coronary! )

You wish. :P
I don't care what you say narouz or anyone else for that matter.
But I do request that you keep the anti-Peat sentiment and disinformation away from new people, especially those asking for help and expecting answers within a Ray Peat context, as well as separate from the RP discussion area of the forum, so people who actually wish to discuss Ray Peat in context at least have a chance to hear and recognize his views above all the drivel.

The moderation we do here is never to stifle discussion nor put Peat on a pedestal as some inerrant being but to prevent those who serve only to disrupt and detract and shut down his voice be prevented from doing so. Unfortunately, you don't seem able to understand that.

'Drivel' Now there's a very telling admission 4Peats_ . Look I've got no problem with you trying to insulate impressionable minds from comments which draw attention to the contradictions and intellectual shortcomings (not to mention more than a few downright dangerous recommendations) in Dr. Peats work. Having read a lot more of it now, I'm increasingly realizing more and more that there's a kind of glorious antiquated splendour in so much of it. No wonder he prefers older studies.
He's clearly a thoughtful interesting man with a healthy disregard for convention. And for those qualities I salute him.
Besides, I think even you are well aware deep down that ANY attempt to censor Peat contrary comments does no more than raise a red flag for enquiring minds. Most people aren't fools 4Peats_ , and whatever merits there actually are in Dr. Peat's ideas will suffer incalculably by your so doing.
But by all means do your level best to quarantine such dangerous notions. But let me put it to you. If you were curious about this Ray Peat stuff, and you saw that the moderators were trying to keep the comments which were drawing attention to shortcomimgs in them, which would you find most interesting?
Without exception, the Peat contrary comments I have read on this forum have stuck carefully to not doing so in a disrespectful or impolite manner.
As I've already suggested, that can only add to whatever actual merit Dr. Peat's ideas deserve, don't you think?

 

[tara]

I don't think I've read much about Ray not liking phytic acid. That's more of a Paleo thing

I've read more about the estrogen in all beans and the fiber irritating the gut. Those are the big issues I can remember.

But you know what, why don't you just email Ray about this particular subject and see what he says?

I hope you're right, Cody.
But seems like I have it lodged back in the corner of my brain
that Peat doesn't like phytic acid.
I have the notion that it comes into play with beans and grains, maybe.
Irritates the gut in Peat's view.
Inflammation.
etc.

I think that's largely why I avoid whole grains especially.
And beans.

I love both of those foods.

I thought the 'feature' of phytic acid in grains etc was that it binds to some desirable minerals and therefore makes them less available, making grains not the best source of those nutrients. Same feature as is used to chelate unwanted minerals like excess iron?

 

[tara]

'bad' by definition

Will you find me one passage in Ray Peat's entire corpus where he says that?

I believe that some serotonin is useful. However, I'm not aware of evidence of a widespread problem with serotonin deficiency, if you take into account Peat's critique of the common discourse. There does seem to be quite a bit of evidence about issues caused by high serotonin (including significant recognition in the mainstream), and many conditions that are improved by serotonin-reducing strategies. If serotonin deficiency is rare, and excess common, then it seems reasonable to focus on helping keep it down, and not spending much time talking about how to raise it.

 

[Wilfrid]

Do you know your current ceruloplasmin levels?

Wilfrid-
I've been looking into ceruloplasmin a bit.
http://www.jneurosci.org/content/22/15/6578.full.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceruloplasmin
http://www.bloodjournal.org/content/118/11/3146?sso-checked=true

gbolduev talks about it a little, above.

Somewhere...can't find it right now...someone said magnesium
helped enhance ceruloplasmin levels.
I've had trouble taking magnesium in the past,
and generally, Peat says, using magnesium is hard for hypothyroid people (I am).

Sorry for the late answer.
B6 and B2 supplementation , at physiological dosage, may probably be a better choice. Chronic B6 deficiency is, sometimes, an unknown cause of excess iron and B6 is also, like B2, a cofactor for various Cu metalloenzymes. Besides transferrin and serum ferritin, long-chain fatty acids act also as blood carriers for iron. B6 has an important role to play in long-chain fatty acids metabolism.
Hypoxia and gastroferrin can also increased iron levels.
Hope that help a bit.

 

[4peatssake]

The moderation we do here is never to stifle discussion nor put Peat on a pedestal as some inerrant being but to prevent those who serve only to disrupt and detract and shut down his voice be prevented from doing so. Unfortunately, you don't seem able to understand that.

I daresay you underestimate me, 4peats
I think I may indeed be able to understand that!

Personally, I wouldn't characterize this thread that way--
as serving "only to disrupt and detract and shut down his voice."
Is that really the way you look at it?

I was addressing the barb you directed at me narouz, not the thread.

But I do request that you keep the anti-Peat sentiment and disinformation away from new people....

Here too, I personally don't see this thread as containing "disinformation."
Without looking the term up,
that seems like a word for what someone like Stalin or Sadaam Hussein might do--
an effort to control and manipulate people through propaganda.

I see it more as some posters simply questioning Peat in some areas.
Honestly questioning.
Not calculatedly and cynically trying, like KGB agents, to undermine a political foe.:)

There are people who come here specifically to disrupt.

...as well as separate from the RP discussion area of the forum...

I don't have a problem with this.
I simply assumed you would move it (to protect the innocent) as you have in the past.
If you look upthread you will see that I even suggested a new
and more X-rated separation mechanism, so that even the most gullible could not fail to see evil ideas clearly marked "Danger!"

Good, and so if you don't have a problem, no reason then to argue with me. Furthermore, it's not our job to move posts or threads all the time. You're not children. You can differentiate and are asked to do so. I'm not protecting innocents or anyone. What we are trying to do is have Peat's views clearly articulated and not misinterpreted and misrepresented by those who choose to discredit him. It happens a lot and some of those voices have gotten a lot louder. Not surprising given what's happening with the documentary.

...so people who actually wish to discuss Ray Peat in context at least have a chance to hear and recognize his views above all the drivel.

One woman's drivel is another person's sizzle.

I think the point you keep missing narouz is that the forum and its members have the right to create space to discuss Ray Peat without being constantly disrupted by people whose aim is prove Peat wrong and argue. You like that sort of thing. I get that. Just please be clear and up front about it and move it from general discussion.

You accuse me of being a rabid dog about to have a coronary and yet no one's voice has been shut down or censored since I simply requested people to please adhere to our forum rules.

Rather my request has been twisted into some big bad authoritarian censorship and has become a bone of contention for you and stuart who continue to attack me and call me names.

"Don't you think?" (classic example of an attempt to subjugate other people's thoughts)

 

[4peatssake]

Look I've got no problem with you trying to insulate impressionable minds from comments which draw attention to the contradictions and intellectual shortcomings (not to mention more than a few downright dangerous recommendations) in Dr. Peats work.

That is no where near an accurate description of what I am doing stuart. It's a routine thing for you to twist people's words to meaning something entirely different from what was said. I think the problem you have is you just don't like being outed for your true motives. I have far less of a problem with bgoldbuv and he's definitely in major disagreement with Ray. But he isn't hiding an agenda to discredit him, at least from what I can see.

Having read a lot more of it now, I'm increasingly realizing more and more that there's a kind of glorious antiquated splendour in so much of it. No wonder he prefers older studies.

Do you even know why he so often uses older studies? I know you've previously suggested he just doesn't keep up on current research and those are the kinds of unsubstantiated assertions that infect people's minds. In observing your behavior on the forum, it appears that you know very little about Ray Peat and his work and for whatever reason have decided to discredit him.

He's clearly a thoughtful interesting man with a healthy disregard for convention. And for those qualities I salute him.

That's your characterization of Dr. Raymond Peat? Even if you disagree with him, that's all you got?

Besides, I think even you are well aware deep down that ANY attempt to censor Peat contrary comments does no more than raise a red flag for enquiring minds. Most people aren't fools 4Peats_ , and whatever merits there actually are in Dr. Peat's ideas will suffer incalculably by your so doing.
But by all means do your level best to quarantine such dangerous notions. But let me put it to you. If you were curious about this Ray Peat stuff, and you saw that the moderators were trying to keep the comments which were drawing attention to shortcomimgs in them, which would you find most interesting?
Without exception, the Peat contrary comments I have read on this forum have stuck carefully to not doing so in a disrespectful or impolite manner. As I've already suggested, that can only add to whatever actual merit Dr. Peat's ideas deserve, don't you think?

This is the usual cry of subversives. And a classic example of trying to subjugate people's thinking.
I especially like your suggestion that Peat's ideas will suffer "incalculably" at my hand.

BTW, there has been no censorship. You and narouz took issue when I asked you to follow the forum rules.

 

[johns74]

He's clearly a thoughtful interesting man with a healthy disregard for convention. And for those qualities I salute him.

That's your characterization of Dr. Raymond Peat? Even if you disagree with him, that's all you got?

Wow, complaining after a positive comment for not praising Peat enough. That is creepy.

Can you show us how it's done? Write a list of positive adjectives and minimal appropriate length so we can use these when we praise Peat, as highly as we should.

 

[4peatssake]

He's clearly a thoughtful interesting man with a healthy disregard for convention. And for those qualities I salute him.

That's your characterization of Dr. Raymond Peat? Even if you disagree with him, that's all you got?

Wow, complaining after a positive comment for not praising Peat enough. That is creepy.

Can you show us how it's done? Write a list of positive adjectives and minimal appropriate length so we can use these when we praise Peat, as highly as we should.

You took it out of context j. nice bait and switch tho.
I don't care what people think of Ray. It's none of my business.

 

[johns74]

nice bait and switch tho.

What is the bait and what is the switch?

I don't care what people think of Ray

But you just tell them they're not praising him highly enough? That suggests that you do care that they praise with everything they got. Isn't that what the comment below means? If not, what does it mean?

That's your characterization of Dr. Raymond Peat? Even if you disagree with him, that's all you got?

 

[4peatssake]

But you just tell them they're not praising him highly enough? That suggests that you do care that they praise with everything they got. Isn't that what the comment below means? If not, what does it mean?

I meant no such thing. You misinterpreted my words.
The suggestion is that he doesn't know much about Ray Peat nor his work and yet makes unsubstantiated accusations about him.

(not to mention more than a few downright dangerous recommendations)

It had nothing to with praise or lack thereof.
It's about the person's own actions and words.

 

[johns74]

The suggestion is that he doesn't know much about Ray Peat nor his work and yet makes unsubstantiated accusations about him.

It had nothing to with praise or lack thereof.

except to not take the poster seriously. Not praising Peat enough is the base of your conclusion that he doesn't know much about Peat, as you posted.

 

[4peatssake]

Not praising Peat enough is the base of your conclusion that he doesn't know much about Peat, as you posted.

No, it's not.

 

[narouz]

You accuse me of being a rabid dog about to have a coronary...

You're way over-estimating
any mildly untoward feelings I might conceivably harbor toward you, 4peats!
Here is what I wrote in reply to Such's suggestion that we should lure gbolduev into the discussion...

We need gbolduev in here

Yeah!
(but I don't wan't to give 4peats a coronary! )

You colored in the "rabid dog" stuff.
I was just joking around with Such and you
because I know that gbolduev is exactly the kind of poster
who could give you a coronary.

Look...
the gbolduev thing is a sticky wicket.
I can see the reasoning behind separating out stuff that is not about Peat.
After all,
I would not be happy if we just renamed the forum, "The Forum,"
and fielded posts about toilet paper and The Kardashians and libertarianism and
whether Ben Affleck is boffing the nanny or...anything!

I became very interested in gbolduev's pov
from reading his discussions with haidut.
They both shine some light on stuff I have no clue about--
for instance, if you take a lot of calcium
do you push phosphate out of the cell or sodium?
(I just made that up,
but that's the kind of sheet they really get into! )

Not exactly sure,
but it seems that while haidut disagrees with most of what gbolduev thinks,
he still thinks gbolduev has something on the ball.
From my vanishingly dim understanding of blood mineral chemistry,
I found those discussions very interesting.
And I am not the only one.

So...I'm kinda fascinated by gbolduev's way of looking at things
and would like to see what he might have to say.
I enjoy Such's questioning of him.
I do realize he is kinduv the antichrist on this forum.
If you will invent a Peat Anti-Christ department on the board index,
I will place any gbolduev-heavy threads there!
Alternately, I would be perhaps even more pleased to discover a
Peat Infidels department.

 

[Such_Saturation]

It's more of a Peat misunderstanders kind of situation usually. But we might indeed require the services of an exorcist if they start talking about sodium pumps.