Language is a virus

[Blinkyrocket]

Apparently another person- William Burroughs - Has experienced the same thought I have: "'Word and image locks' and 'association blocks' lock the mind into conventional patterns of thinking, speaking, acting, and perceiving things."' I've thought about this quite a bit, wondering how to "free" yourself from the limits of using words to define things. I'm curious what the world would be like if we couldn't speak O_O

I just thought this was cool.

 

[mt_dreams]

Words, like sounds, vibrate. When you think in english (or any other language), the thought goes through the vibration parameters of that language. The same goes for thought related sign posts. I remember back to Tim Allen's early comedy routines. He could convey many things with his grunts alone.

If we ever get access to the past, it would be cool to see how the homo sapiens, neanderthals & cro-magnons in Europe communicated b/w each other.

 

[Blinkyrocket]

It is but it's also interesting to know their thought processes and one way to find out would be to try and understand the thought process of a child who's been deaf since birth. Thinking in pictures and feelings instead of words and definitions.

 

[Such_Saturation]

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/au ... ians.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/wi ... lake.shtml

 

[mt_dreams]

Yeah I think a good ex would be an illiterate deaf adult. I would imagine their perception would be based solely on visual observation & emotion. It looks like they would be in a state of continual now.

The whole virus theory could probably also be applied to music. Anybody who appreciates classical music could probably attest to the vibrational changes that come about from a powerful piece. It reminds me of a clip from the language of water, where they showed the massive difference b/w frozen water drops when in the presence of classical music vs metal. Human vibration also has a lot to do with ones own experience, but it seems people are not getting enough musically spiritual vibrations like bells, chanting, horns, organs, etc. Rather, simple music seems to be everywhere, and ends up having a massive effect on culture. In the past, even regular citizens had access to things like operas & orchestras.

If anybody is in need of some spiritual cleansing, here's some sugar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrsYD46W1U0

thanks s_s for the links. It reminds me that I've still got a decent amount of articles from Ray that I still haven't read.

 

[Blinkyrocket]

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/authoritarians.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/wi ... lake.shtml

Ahhhhhhhh, I remember these articles now, really liked them they made me think. Sometimes I forget that everyone else here has also read those articles
Well, almost everyone, and almost every article.

 

[pboy]

get really baked and you'll understand it. Over time ive had many thoughts regarding this...I realized everything is just a feeling...not needing words, and people feel each other. No words are actually needed..they are just useful for describing objects or directions and things like that, but in terms of interpersonal feelings...communication just on a certain level, it always is beyond words, words get in the way a lot of times, reality is in the silence and feeling of any situation or place

one time me and a friend ...went on an epic shroom trip and it was actually special to me how it happened
we went to a semi secluded place but it was like this huge quarry with some woods surrounding it between neighbrohoods and apt's and stuff with train tracks...after the shrooms kicked in, I didn't really actually put words to it until it was over, when in it it was all just a move with feeling feel...for like 2-3 hours we were navigating this area, climbing cliffs, wading through woods, just doing all kidns of things..moving k inda fast but at times responding to sounds and peaking into areas...no words said, but it was clear that we were feeling the same thing..somehow connected in synch. It made me realize how packs of animals exist, how they move, and interact...even how the birds all fly in flocks and make sharp moves all in synch without communication. Its just a hyper awareness of feelings and letting them 100% move you without any kink at all..not even a thought, pure response

it was enlightening and helped me after that for years ive been making new connections and experiencing life much more in a non verbal way, acting on untuitive vibes. Some of the most special connectiosn with people are without words. A touch and look means more than anything you could say, the words get in the way ...the feeling is what you are trying to convey

I could write and talk about this and the mechanics of the metaphysics of life but you wouldn't, no one would understand it without experiencing it, and diving into it

language and thoughts are not a virus, but for most people they are in a HUUUUUUUUUUUGE way. The rightful way for them to be is for decription and that's kind of it. Ideally people would operate in a way that was mostly non verbal, literally only talking when you need to and to the point efficient...this is actually how I live my life

 

[Such_Saturation]

The whole virus theory could probably also be applied to music. Anybody who appreciates classical music could probably attest to the vibrational changes that come about from a powerful piece.

I don't know, I met a kid who has so called absolute pitch, make him listen to "classical music" tuned to few hertz higher or lower than what is internationally standardized and he is going to scream in agony. There are viruses everywhere.

 

[narouz]

get really baked and you'll understand it. Over time ive had many thoughts regarding this...I realized everything is just a feeling...not needing words, and people feel each other. No words are actually needed..they are just useful for describing objects or directions and things like that, but in terms of interpersonal feelings...communication just on a certain level, it always is beyond words, words get in the way a lot of times, reality is in the silence and feeling of any situation or place

one time me and a friend ...went on an epic shroom trip and it was actually special to me how it happened
we went to a semi secluded place but it was like this huge quarry with some woods surrounding it between neighbrohoods and apt's and stuff with train tracks...after the shrooms kicked in, I didn't really actually put words to it until it was over, when in it it was all just a move with feeling feel...for like 2-3 hours we were navigating this area, climbing cliffs, wading through woods, just doing all kidns of things..moving k inda fast but at times responding to sounds and peaking into areas...no words said, but it was clear that we were feeling the same thing..somehow connected in synch. It made me realize how packs of animals exist, how they move, and interact...even how the birds all fly in flocks and make sharp moves all in synch without communication. Its just a hyper awareness of feelings and letting them 100% move you without any kink at all..not even a thought, pure response

it was enlightening and helped me after that for years ive been making new connections and experiencing life much more in a non verbal way, acting on untuitive vibes. Some of the most special connectiosn with people are without words. A touch and look means more than anything you could say, the words get in the way ...the feeling is what you are trying to convey

I could write and talk about this and the mechanics of the metaphysics of life but you wouldn't, no one would understand it without experiencing it, and diving into it

language and thoughts are not a virus, but for most people they are in a HUUUUUUUUUUUGE way. The rightful way for them to be is for decription and that's kind of it. Ideally people would operate in a way that was mostly non verbal, literally only talking when you need to and to the point efficient...this is actually how I live my life

I enjoyed that, pboy.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Has narouz ever gotten really baked?

 

[Sheik]

Man, that mushroom trip sounded awesome. I want to try psychedelics so bad but I'm not in a good situation to do them.

 

[tara]

One can say different things in different languages. So one can think different things in different languages. So one way to expand our ability to think outside the constraints of our first language is to learn another one.

 

[sm1693]

Intelligence itself is a virus.

I would point to the most "intelligent" people on earth, and how they clearly are lacking in the social aspects of life: empathy, fun, manliness (for men), femininity (for women).

I say that autism (which many now argue is a serotonin-excess illness) is a widening of our ability for abstract thought; thought free from time, place, and first-person perspective. This trade-off is made in the brain for a diminished capacity to experience things in the "here-and-now," and, of course, a diminished ability to take pleasure in experiences.

The "Peat perspective on health" is one of the most intelligent life-works I have ever seen in all my years on earth, and yet, ironically, I believe it is anti-intelligence. A childhood without extreme serotonin-induced intelligence is more likely to be pleasurable, but much less likely to create a genius like Peat himself.

 

[Sheik]

Intelligence itself is a virus.

I would point to the most "intelligent" people on earth, and how they clearly are lacking in the social aspects of life: empathy, fun, manliness (for men), femininity (for women).

I say that autism (which many now argue is a serotonin-excess illness) is a widening of our ability for abstract thought; thought free from time, place, and first-person perspective. This trade-off is made in the brain for a diminished capacity to experience things in the "here-and-now," and, of course, a diminished ability to take pleasure in experiences.

The "Peat perspective on health" is one of the most intelligent life-works I have ever seen in all my years on earth, and yet, ironically, I believe it is anti-intelligence. A childhood without extreme serotonin-induced intelligence is more likely to be pleasurable, but much less likely to create a genius like Peat himself.

That is a very interesting and fresh perspective, in my view. I never thought of it in that way.

I've heard theories about people with autism being more sensitive, experiencing sensory input very intensely and not knowing how to deal with it in a functional way. I wonder if there is a correlation between autism and ectomorphy, since ectomorphs also supposedly experience sensory input very intensely.

 

[Ben]

Without thoughts, language would not exist. So technically, thoughts are the virus and language is the derivative. But other than that, the OP is right. Thoughts break down reality into super-specific packages, whereas reality is infinitely complex. Language should only be used where necessary, and thinking should only be used where necessary.

You say language is a virus, but realize how you express that. In a way, what you wrote is a virus to thoughts. Thoughts that discourage thoughts. But it is very important to not philosophize. Thoughts are simplistic and so are their demise.

Sm1693- Indeed, masculinity, femininity, and fun are reduced when a certain kind of intelligence is increased. The egoic intelligence. A mathematic, filtratious kind of intelligence that saps energy from what should be used to experience life and all it has to offer to the fullest.

It also has an influence on the physiology. Where did the stereotype of the dumb jock or dumb sexy woman come from? People who have the energy to become charismatic, and develop good hormonal profiles and good looks, often get the energy at the expense of thought intelligence.

On the other hand, nerdy people often get the thought energy at the expense of their health, looks, and charisma.

You should make your idol a stupid jock or a dumb blonde, or whatever. Quit trying to be smart because you are hurting yourself. Just do whatever comes naturally.

If you succeed, you will get rewarded with social graces. People crave charismatic people like they crave sugar, and charismatic people are good for health too. Help bring the ego down and make people see with their very own eyes!

 

[lexis]

http://www.ahmedhulusi.org/en/books/the ... rayer.html

 

[Blinkyrocket]

One can say different things in different languages. So one can think different things in different languages. So one way to expand our ability to think outside the constraints of our first language is to learn another one.

Which is exactly why I'm trying to learn Japanese, or German seen as my ancestry is mostly German. I just need to get myself to do stuff that doesn't seem fun now but will pay off later -_-

 

[Blinkyrocket]

Without thoughts, language would not exist. So technically, thoughts are the virus and language is the derivative. But other than that, the OP is right. Thoughts break down reality into super-specific packages, whereas reality is infinitely complex. Language should only be used where necessary, and thinking should only be used where necessary.

You say language is a virus, but realize how you express that. In a way, what you wrote is a virus to thoughts. Thoughts that discourage thoughts. But it is very important to not philosophize. Thoughts are simplistic and so are their demise.

Sm1693- Indeed, masculinity, femininity, and fun are reduced when a certain kind of intelligence is increased. The egoic intelligence. A mathematic, filtratious kind of intelligence that saps energy from what should be used to experience life and all it has to offer to the fullest.

It also has an influence on the physiology. Where did the stereotype of the dumb jock or dumb sexy woman come from? People who have the energy to become charismatic, and develop good hormonal profiles and good looks, often get the energy at the expense of thought intelligence.

On the other hand, nerdy people often get the thought energy at the expense of their health, looks, and charisma.

You should make your idol a stupid jock or a dumb blonde, or whatever. Quit trying to be smart because you are hurting yourself. Just do whatever comes naturally.

If you succeed, you will get rewarded with social graces. People crave charismatic people like they crave sugar, and charismatic people are good for health too. Help bring the ego down and make people see with their very own eyes!

Slight correction: I'm not necessarily the one saying "Language is a virus" specifically, I typed "Language" into google and "Language is a virus" came up first and I figured that sounded pretty close to what I was trying to search, it's a song, and a concept in one of William Burroughs books.

 

[treelady]

We humans are so focused on physical things, things you can see, hear, touch. That is only part of our existence. Language is handy but I think it is used to control us and by using it we become less aware of the energy, knowledge, information, non verbal communication that is part of our existence. You don't see it, you don't hear it... You just "know". Did you ever wonder how animals communicate? How they "know" things? The information is out there and they are aware, not dumbed down by language, not influenced by so called authorities.

I have been communicating with animals, mostly my cats, for years by thinking in pictures, I think like a movie while I talk. They receive the information and understand it. There was a stray cat in our neighborhood that spent alot of time with us and kept getting babies and I found homes for them. So I talked to her about getting fixed and explained that I got fixed and that's why I didn't have a bunch of children. I sent her a picture of cats popping up in the bushes everywhere and told her I could take he to the vet to have the same operation done. She agreed and when the time came didn't have a problem with going in a box and going to the vet. She understood. Ray Peat has a story about birds wanting to sprinkled with the hose. In addition to flying around by him, I think they sent him the picture of them getting sprinkled and that's how he got the idea of what they wanted. Makes me wonder how many ideas that just pop into our heads are sent to us and from where...

 

[Kiwi]

get really baked and you'll understand it. Over time ive had many thoughts regarding this...I realized everything is just a feeling...not needing words, and people feel each other. No words are actually needed..they are just useful for describing objects or directions and things like that, but in terms of interpersonal feelings...communication just on a certain level, it always is beyond words, words get in the way a lot of times, reality is in the silence and feeling of any situation or place

one time me and a friend ...went on an epic shroom trip and it was actually special to me how it happened
we went to a semi secluded place but it was like this huge quarry with some woods surrounding it between neighbrohoods and apt's and stuff with train tracks...after the shrooms kicked in, I didn't really actually put words to it until it was over, when in it it was all just a move with feeling feel...for like 2-3 hours we were navigating this area, climbing cliffs, wading through woods, just doing all kidns of things..moving k inda fast but at times responding to sounds and peaking into areas...no words said, but it was clear that we were feeling the same thing..somehow connected in synch. It made me realize how packs of animals exist, how they move, and interact...even how the birds all fly in flocks and make sharp moves all in synch without communication. Its just a hyper awareness of feelings and letting them 100% move you without any kink at all..not even a thought, pure response

it was enlightening and helped me after that for years ive been making new connections and experiencing life much more in a non verbal way, acting on untuitive vibes. Some of the most special connectiosn with people are without words. A touch and look means more than anything you could say, the words get in the way ...the feeling is what you are trying to convey

I could write and talk about this and the mechanics of the metaphysics of life but you wouldn't, no one would understand it without experiencing it, and diving into it

language and thoughts are not a virus, but for most people they are in a HUUUUUUUUUUUGE way. The rightful way for them to be is for decription and that's kind of it. Ideally people would operate in a way that was mostly non verbal, literally only talking when you need to and to the point efficient...this is actually how I live my life

What were you thinking during your 2-3 hours shroom trip? For me it's hard to imagine you were not thinking anything during that time, more specifically thinking 'in words'. Is it just me or do people mix up thinking and talking here? Even if you're not talking for many hours, it's hard to imagine you're not thinking in words. When we already know words for each thing in the world (or the things we know), lets say an ant and we see the ant, we always associate that thing with the term 'ant' even though in actual reality it has no meaning besides humans calling it that. I understand your point about language/speaking and I agree for many people they are in the way, but I wouldn't be that extremist to say language is bad. I'd just say it's one tool of communication from one human to another, but I think that this tool is overrated in our present society. Of course if you are exploring nature with a friend and just focus on exploring, you don't really need to use verbal communication. Verbal communication is really only for when 2 humans are talking about things, in the present moment while doing a 'real' activity it is not really needed. A good example would be the form of 'communication' on a football field (or any type of sports really). Some players use verbal communication from time to time, but whats way more important is the nonverbal communication and the 'game intelligence' a player possesses, understanding what your teammates are going to do and 'reading' the game. You communicate without using words and it's way more efficient for those type of situations. Animals all use different forms of communication and humans just use to have language as one of their tools to communicate with each other. I don't really see what's the issue with language, it's more about the abstinence of emphatic and non-verbal behavior/thinking/communication that can cause issues, which can be a result of 'overusing' language, but does not have to be.