Lyme Disease Treatment

[Ashoka]

The last time I posted here I was dealing with anxiety and frequent panic attacks. I recently tested positive for Lyme disease and some co-infections, and I'm convinced it is responsible for those symptoms I was experiencing (just in case anyone remembers those posts). I was wondering if anyone has some tips and advice for getting through Lyme disease. I'm seeing an alternative health doctor but I don't really feel like I'm doing enough, nor do I necessarily agree with all the treatments. It's difficult to inhabit this grey area, but I feel like with some more direction and knowledge of the possibilities, I'll be on a much better path.

At the moment I'm taking a thyroid supplement, vitamin D, resveratrol (I know), and some herbal stuff commonly used to treat Lyme disease. I also have a supplement for methylation but it has a ton of b6 and I thought I remember reading it can cause nerve damage in high amounts. So I haven't taken much.

If I recommend particular treatments to my doctor, I think he's open to it. He trusts my judgment to a degree and I'm prepared to make a detailed case for anything. Unfortunately I don't think minocycline or tetracyclines are among those because he may not have the ability to prescribe them. Sharing any thoughts or experiences is appreciated. Thank you!

 

[TubZy]

Minocycline. No need for a script same thing here Fish Minocycline 100mg

Peat's mentions mino would be good. It has good penetration as well. He also mentioned doses in the range of 150mg-200mg per day too. Upping thyroid/T3 dose should help too since bacteria (including lyme) can't survive in high temps. Monolaurin can help too.

 

[Ashoka]

Peat's mentions mino would be good. It has good penetration as well.

Thanks. I'm in a position where I don't think I can go out on my own and take the minocycline. I'll definitely keep it in mind though.

 

[AJC]

 

[Ashoka]

That was a really great video - I appreciate it. It changed my way of thinking about this.

 

[RMH]

I was also diagnosed with Lyme and at least one co-infection (babesia) about a year ago after struggling with severe joint issues and intermittent air hunger for a number of years. As Dr. Klinghardt mentions in the video, there seem to be multiple Lyme strains out there now and treatment is definitely complicated. I'd recommend going to see a Lyme literate medical doctor (ILADS).

A gradually introduced combination of antibiotics has resolved about 90% of my issues. In the past I avoided antibiotics, but I got desperate enough to listen to the doctor and I'm glad I did.

 

[AJC]

That was a really great video - I appreciate it. It changed my way of thinking about this.

I'm happy to hear that

 

[TubZy]

I think also a proper diagnosis is also required. When my thyroid was screwed up despite having normal thyroid blood test (besides TSH being over 3.0) I also tested positive for both Lyme and EBV. The thing is antibiotics really didn't do anything when I used them but once I improved my thyroid many symptoms disappeared. So I think hypothyroidism can present symptoms similar to Lyme. Also, I think hypothyroidism is also a reason people can pick up Lyme too due to the immune system being in a weak state (due to high cortisol) and metabolism being so slow.

 

[Wagner83]

I just heard an askyourherbdoctor podcast in which Ray is asked about Lyme's he thinks most of the cases are misdiagnosed and otherwise the right course of antibiotics over 3 weeks should clear things up (you canf ind the protocol on pubmed searching for "antibiotics lyme "). As Tubzy pointed out thyroid and nutrition always have their place.
Pretty sure the podcast was on "field biology", the question was asked by a caller.

 

[Ashoka]

A gradually introduced combination of antibiotics has resolved about 90% of my issues. In the past I avoided antibiotics, but I got desperate enough to listen to the doctor and I'm glad I did.

I'm happy to hear that, my congratulations. Was that a trying experience for you? I'm taking some herbal stuff right now that's making me feel baaad. It was helping a lot initially though.

I also tested positive for both Lyme and EBV.

I tested positive for Lyme, Babesia, and EBV. I had mono really bad about three years ago which kind of set off this chain of events. Also, while I think the Lyme reared its head over a year ago, it got rapidly worse after a stressful separation from my girlfriend. I had no idea what was happening to me!

he thinks most of the cases are misdiagnosed

Thanks for all that information. At the moment, I have a generalized body pain type symptom and also the neurological "buzzing" type symptom. That seems like pretty straightforward Lyme, no? Does it make sense for this to be a misdiagnosis?

 

[TubZy]

Could try high dose caffeine or better yet caffeine, niacinamide, aspirin combo. You will not only boost immunity but detox pathways (liver) as well which is also hindered with lymes and other infections. Worth a shot if you don't want to do antibiotics or even combine antibiotics with caffeine. Any time I have any gut issues from foods, supplements, antibiotics etc. my go to's are caffeine pills/coffee, niacinamide or activated charcoal and it's eliminated very quickly.

Caffeine Is A Strong Antibacterial Agent
Caffeine Is A Strong Antiviral Agent
Coffee boosts oral health and has antibacterial effects
Caffeine Reverses Stress, Insulin Resistance, Hypertension
Gut Bacteria Found To Be A Causal Factor In Obesity

 

[Ashoka]

Could try high dose caffeine or better yet caffeine, niacinamide, aspirin combo. You will not only boost immunity but detox pathways (liver) as well which is also hindered with lymes and other infections. Worth a shot if you don't want to do antibiotics or even combine antibiotics with caffeine. Any time I have any gut issues from foods, supplements, antibiotics etc. my go to's are caffeine pills/coffee, niacinamide or activated charcoal and it's eliminated very quickly.

Caffeine Is A Strong Antibacterial Agent
Caffeine Is A Strong Antiviral Agent
Coffee boosts oral health and has antibacterial effects
Caffeine Reverses Stress, Insulin Resistance, Hypertension
Gut Bacteria Found To Be A Causal Factor In Obesity

Hey, thanks for those ideas. I didn't see this message until now because sometimes I don't get notifications?

I have a lot of issues, so generally I don't eat enough. By not eating enough, I think caffeine is barred as an option. I have a delayed digestion in my stomach so aspirin is tricky sometimes. I could try niacinamide for sure. I haven't used activated charcoal and I don't know about gut issues per se.

At the moment my anxiety is just really high. I was improving with the treatment well for a while, feeling good in some ways I haven't for a long time, and then I got hit with this absurd anxiety. I've had anxiety before but this is deep, pretty delusional and came on suddenly following a pretty good day when I felt like I was in control finally.

 

[TubZy]

Hey, thanks for those ideas. I didn't see this message until now because sometimes I don't get notifications?

I have a lot of issues, so generally I don't eat enough. By not eating enough, I think caffeine is barred as an option. I have a delayed digestion in my stomach sometimes so aspirin is tricky sometimes. I could try niacinamide for sure. I haven't used activated charcoal and I don't know about gut issues per se.

At the moment my anxiety is just really high. I was improving with the treatment well for a while, feeling good in some ways I haven't for a long time, and then I got hit with this absurd anxiety. I've had anxiety before but this is deep, pretty delusional and came on suddenly following a pretty good day when I felt like I was in control finally.

Methylene blue could be could be for neurolyme since it can cross the BBB. Lapodin (emodin) is good too, I think there is a thread on it and lymes somewhere on this forum.

Minocycline would be the best for neurolyme though, since it can cross the BBB and CNS big time, but not an option you said right?

 

[Ashoka]

Methylene blue could be could be for neurolyme since it can cross the BBB. Lapodin (emodin) is good too, I think there is a thread on it and lymes somewhere on this forum.

Minocycline would be the best for neurolyme though, since it can cross the BBB and CNS big time, but not an option you said right?

I haven't seen much about addressing Lyme disease specifically, but there's this general quotation:

"...Emodin isn’t a magic bullet (in fact it isn’t a bullet/toxin of any sort), but when combined with all the other adaptogens, it does have a place in cancer therapy, as well as in treating many other ailments.

So of course it seems promising. I don't think I'll be able to do the minocycline any time soon, because I don't think I can convince my doctor (who doesn't work much with pharmaceuticals) to do it. There's a book by Joey Lott (a Ray Peat supporter) called Healing Chronic Lyme Disease Naturally, and he actually never mentions cascara or pau d'arco. He mentions ashwagandha and rhodiola quite a lot. Honestly I don't remember what else at the moment, but a lot of the herbs he recommends are supposed to boost metabolism. Might be something you want to look at as well.

 

[TubZy]

I haven't seen much about addressing Lyme disease specifically, but there's this general quotation:


So of course it seems promising. I don't think I'll be able to do the minocycline any time soon, because I don't think I can convince my doctor (who doesn't work much with pharmaceuticals) to do it. There's a book by Joey Lott (a Ray Peat supporter) called Healing Chronic Lyme Disease Naturally, and he actually never mentions cascara or pau d'arco. He mentions ashwagandha and rhodiola quite a lot. Honestly I don't remember what else at the moment, but a lot of the herbs he recommends are supposed to boost metabolism. Might be something you want to look at as well.

Understood. I also thought this article was interesting especially with Peat's views Sugar Helps Antibiotics Trick and Kill Deadly Bacteria

Most people with lymes or infections avoid sugar whether taking antibiotics or not...

Actually I already experimented with many herbs (not at the moment but in the past) in this thread lol
Maximise Your Free Testosterone Levels

 

[Peater Piper]

Understood. I also thought this article was interesting especially with Peat's views Sugar Helps Antibiotics Trick and Kill Deadly Bacteria

Most people with lymes or infections avoid sugar whether taking antibiotics or not...

When I had acute Lyme, the smallest amount of carbohydrate made me feel like I was going to die. It was the first time in my life I ate a ketogenic diet. A week and a half after the initial infection I was able to start adding carbs back in. It was months before I started to feel normal again.

Regarding antibiotics, Lyme is really hard to kill:

LymeMD: Lyme in a test tube and ILADS' Guidelines validation

 

[TubZy]

When I had acute Lyme, the smallest amount of carbohydrate made me feel like I was going to die. It was the first time in my life I ate a ketogenic diet. A week and a half after the initial infection I was able to start adding carbs back in. It was months before I started to feel normal again.

Regarding antibiotics, Lyme is really hard to kill:

LymeMD: Lyme in a test tube and ILADS' Guidelines validation

How did you actually kill it?

Also, from the link you mentioned they don't say anything about minocycline or tinidazole. I also didn't see any references to the author's blog post to the study he mentioned.

According to this study, mino and tini would be superior to doxy and metro (flagyl). It also looks like doxy could potentially make lymes worse due to the increase in round bodies.


Doxycycline versus Minocycline - eMedExpert.com
Evaluation of in-vitro antibiotic susceptibility of different morphological forms of Borrelia burgdorferi

• "Doxycycline treatment increased round bodies by ~275% (Figure 3B). Out of this population ~270% were alive and only ~5% were dead.
• Tinidazole treatment reduced round bodies by ~94%, but in the remaining 6% of the population only ~2% were dead.
• Tigecycline treatment reduced round bodies by ~96%, but in the remaining 4% of population only ~1% were dead.
• Metronidazole treatment reduced round bodies by ~68%, but in the remaining 32% of the population ~15% were dead.
• Amoxicillin treatment reduced round bodies by ~32%, but in the remaining 68% of the population ~30% were dead (Figure 3B)."

 

[RMH]

It seems like a lot of doctors treat all tetracyclines the same. I had to push my LLMD doctor to prescribe mino rather than doxy because I wanted the blood brain barrier and anti-inflammatory benefits. I ultimately ended up stacking minocycline, ceftin, and flagyl. Each antibiotic was rough for the first few weeks, and flagyl was terrible the entire treatment cycle. Very rough process but in my experience, Lyme can not be cleared with a few weeks of treatment when it's become chronic even with good thyroid and metabolic function.

 

[TubZy]

It seems like a lot of doctors treat all tetracyclines the same. I had to push my LLMD doctor to prescribe mino rather than doxy because I wanted the blood brain barrier and anti-inflammatory benefits. I ultimately ended up stacking minocycline, ceftin, and flagyl. Each antibiotic was rough for the first few weeks, and flagyl was terrible the entire treatment cycle. Very rough process but in my experience, Lyme can not be cleared with a few weeks of treatment when it's become chronic even with good thyroid and metabolic function.

What dose did you use and how long did it take to clear it?

 

[TubZy]

I also meant to add the antifungal drug fluconazole actually has good benefits for Lyme particualry neurolyme. Pretty low dose too only 200mg.

Clinical effects of fluconazole in patients with neuroborreliosis. - PubMed - NCBI