Peaterpeater
Member
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2015
- Messages
- 122
Ray Peat has mentioned that it would be fine to dose progesterone continuously if you are overburdened with estrogen and/or you do not care about menstruating......or during menapause.
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I agree but that seems to contradict what the president of Kenogen wrote to me (above.) I'm really confused. I'm going to write that back to her.Ray Peat has mentioned that it would be fine to dose progesterone continuously if you are overburdened with estrogen and/or you do not care about menstruating......or during menapause.
I thought he had to separate himself from the product because there were legal issues about both discussing the effects of using progesterone and selling the product. So he separated himself from the production before there was any change to the formula. And then there was a change to the formula. The only negative thing I thought I'd read from Peat about the changed formula was that he thought it would be a bit less effective with the vit-E diluted with another oil.So I think I came across someone pointing out that Progest-e is not good, and that is why RP walked away from the company Kenogen despite the fact that he patented the process of dissolving the progesterone in vitamin e. That seems like a pretty significant stand to take and I'm surprised that people on this forum are still purchasing Progest-E.
I think I read instruction that said look at the size of the first drop that comes out of the bottle when you first get it. That amount should give about 3mg. If subsequent drops are bigger, take that into account.But one drop of this thick liquid is one drop. Are you really telling me you think this liquid should be coming out like a water drop. Not a chance. But one drop = 3mg. Why complicate things.
Yes, I think we typically produce more of it than men do.Maybe women need much more progesterone than men.
AIUI, Peat has said that if you keep supplementing progesterone continuously, the liver can get more efficicent at eliminating it. If you take it for a few days then a few days off on a cyclical pattern, you reset so that you are sensitive to the benefits again when you resume next time around.I agree but that seems to contradict what the president of Kenogen wrote to me (above.) I'm really confused. I'm going to write that back to her.
AIUI, Peat has said that if you keep supplementing progesterone continuously, the liver can get more efficicent at eliminating it. If you take it for a few days then a few days off on a cyclical pattern, you reset so that you are sensitive to the benefits again when you resume next time around.
He has said that if someone needs to take it continuously to keep on top of sufficiently severe symptoms, and not needing to maintain the usual menstrual cycle, it's OK to do that. These may seem contradictory. I'm guessing, maybe taking a very small dose continuously could give some ongoing benefit without triggering the increased elimination. But that's a guess.
I used it continuously for a while, and I think it may have had reduced effectiveness after a while. Then I reduced to a very regular low dose for a while, and then I stopped.
I thought he had to separate himself from the product because there were legal issues about both discussing the effects of using progesterone and selling the product. So he separated himself from the production before there was any change to the formula. And then there was a change to the formula. The only negative thing I thought I'd read from Peat about the changed formula was that he thought it would be a bit less effective with the vit-E diluted with another oil.
I sent this to Ray and this is his response:So I think I came across someone pointing out that Progest-e is not good, and that is why RP walked away from the company Kenogen despite the fact that he patented the process of dissolving the progesterone in vitamin e. That seems like a pretty significant stand to take and I'm surprised that people on this forum are still purchasing Progest-E. So in wondering what in the product is not good that would cause RP to walk away like that and I saw that they decided to use 'soy isoflavones.'
Here is a quote from RP:
The estrogenic properties of legumes were studied when sheep farmers found that their sheep miscarried when they ate clover. (I think it's interesting how this terribly toxic effect has been neglected in recent decades.) All legumes have this property, and all parts of the plant seem to contain some of the active chemicals. In beans, several substances have been found to contribute to the effect. The estrogenic effects of the seed oils and the isoflavones have been studied the most, but the well-known antithyroid actions (again, involving the oils, the isoflavones, and other molecules found in legumes) have an indirect estrogen-promoting action, since hypothyroidism leads to hyperestrogenism. (Estrogens are known to be thyroid suppressors, so the problem tends to be self-accelerating.) ( Natural Estrogens )
Hmmm, seems a bit counterintuitive to use an estrogenic product in a progesterone oil. When I used PRogest-e I had a lot of breast pain but I attributed it to the estrogens being loosened from my tissues. Now that I use another oil, I don't have breast pain and feel that I'm making better progress in restoring the balance between progesterone and estrogen.
Thoughts?
I sent this to Ray and this is his response:
The first part is a complete fabrication. If the person making the statement, including the remark that “they had decided to use soy isoflavones,” can’t provide the source, it should be assumed to have been invented by that person. The second part is at best a non sequitur: Quoting something I had said about the estrogenic effects of the legumes, their isoflavones and polyunsaturated fatty acids, and then to say that an estrogenic product has been used in a progesterone oil. Progest-E Complex contains neither. Both pure vitamin E and progesterone are strongly antiestrogenic. Such lack of contact with reality should make a reader question the rest of the statement. Does the person use a pseudonym? The defamatory statements are clearly malicious, so I’m interested in knowing the identity of their author.
To be clear, is this the source of the rumor?
Read the link that alywest posted. The person who wrote that review is clearly trying to direct the reader's attention toward another product, and they have no understanding of progesterone, Ray Peat, or this forum. I was very annoyed reading it.Wow he got really angry... Irrationally angry actually. Lots of weird assumptions. I've never seen a response like that from him until now.
Read the link that alywest posted. The person who wrote that review is clearly trying to direct the reader's attention toward another product, and they have no understanding of progesterone, Ray Peat, or this forum. I was very annoyed reading it.
@alywest It would probably be a good idea to contact Ray and tell him that you didnt know that you had been misinformed and link him to the consumer review website post that started all this nonsense. It's not your fault, but someone did send him a quote of yours that is kind of out of context. The reviewer spreading these lies should be held accountable though.
I don't think he saw that link, only alywest's post. Way too much dopamine from thyroid, caffeine, and diet probably making him paranoid and suspicious lol. But I agree that the website that the link leads to is very stupid
Yes, he was really angry but i don't think irrationally so. His assumptions are actually spot on.....but misplaced on Alywest. I believe that the statements on that website are "defamatory" and "malicious" towards Protest-E. They are trying to bring Protest-E's reputation down so they can sell their own product.Wow he got really angry... Irrationally angry actually. Lots of weird assumptions. I've never seen a response like that from him until now.
I am appalled to read this as Elaine Hollingsworth in Australia recommended it in her book Take Control of Your Health, l am still having hot flushes & bought 6 bottles since I am in Australia . l am having hormone testing soon but will never buy againSo I think I came across someone pointing out that Progest-e is not good, and that is why RP walked away from the company Kenogen despite the fact that he patented the process of dissolving the progesterone in vitamin e. That seems like a pretty significant stand to take and I'm surprised that people on this forum are still purchasing Progest-E. So in wondering what in the product is not good that would cause RP to walk away like that and I saw that they decided to use 'soy isoflavones.'
Here is a quote from RP:
The estrogenic properties of legumes were studied when sheep farmers found that their sheep miscarried when they ate clover. (I think it's interesting how this terribly toxic effect has been neglected in recent decades.) All legumes have this property, and all parts of the plant seem to contain some of the active chemicals. In beans, several substances have been found to contribute to the effect. The estrogenic effects of the seed oils and the isoflavones have been studied the most, but the well-known antithyroid actions (again, involving the oils, the isoflavones, and other molecules found in legumes) have an indirect estrogen-promoting action, since hypothyroidism leads to hyperestrogenism. (Estrogens are known to be thyroid suppressors, so the problem tends to be self-accelerating.) ( Natural Estrogens )
Hmmm, seems a bit counterintuitive to use an estrogenic product in a progesterone oil. When I used PRogest-e I had a lot of breast pain but I attributed it to the estrogens being loosened from my tissues. Now that I use another oil, I don't have breast pain and feel that I'm making better progress in restoring the balance between progesterone and estrogen.
Thoughts?