Ray's Quick Therapy Diet: 2 Quarts Of Milk And 2 Quarts Of Orange Juice Per Day

[TCapp04]

Ahh ok. Did you feel the the 2 liters of OJ and 2 liters of milk did you any benefits and which?

2 quarts of each. My response to stress was great. I was super calm. I think I started using pregnenolone around that time also, so it would be hard to say if the effects were becuase of the diet or because of the hormone or if the response was compounded.

 

[Amazoniac]

If people with low metabolism tend to retain calcium, isn't that a problem in this strategy to recover? No sarcasm.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

If people with low metabolism tend to retain calcium, isn't that a problem in this strategy to recover? No sarcasm.

Hi @Amazoniac...can you please clarify your question for me? What does "retain calcium" mean? Like in soft tissues?

Isn't calcium retention a good thing? Are there symptoms of calcium retention that are undesirable?

I did this diet for one week and LOVED it. I lost three pounds of fat, had NO excessive peeing and was sweating bullets I was so warm all the time. But I had to quit because I developed severe insomnia....not sure why. It was either due to an immunological response or massive endotoxin irritating my brain.

I'm thinking of trying it again, but using a different kind of milk....I think I do better with A-2.

 

[Amazoniac]

Hi @Amazoniac...can you please clarify your question for me? What does "retain calcium" mean? Like in soft tissues?

Isn't calcium retention a good thing? Are there symptoms of calcium retention that are undesirable?

I did this diet for one week and LOVED it. I lost three pounds of fat, had NO excessive peeing and was sweating bullets I was so warm all the time. But I had to quit because I developed severe insomnia....not sure why. It was either due to an immunological response or massive endotoxin irritating my brain.

I'm thinking of trying it again, but using a different kind of milk....I think I do better with A-2.

Brian forced me to post this:

From the MS article

"In experiments that I have described in previous newsletters, increasing sodium, ATP, carbon dioxide, and progesterone, and increasing the ratio of magnesium to calcium, have been found to increase cellular energy and structure. The thyroid hormone is ultimately responsible for maintaining cells' energy and structure, and responsiveness, but if it is increased suddenly without allowing all the other factors to adjust, it will raise the temperature too suddenly. It needn't take a long time, but all the factors have to be present at the same time."

"Since a sudden increase in temperature will release increased amounts of the pro-inflammatory fats, things should be changed gradually. Increased salt is thermogenic, but increased magnesium is protective against hyperthermia, so increased magnesium (epsom salts baths, for example, coffee, fruits, some vegetables and meats) would be helpful. Magnesium is rapidly lost from cells in hypothyroidism. Sugar, when accompanied by fats and minerals, as in milk, is needed to lower cortisol, and to maintain thyroid activity. Balanced proteins, such as cheese, potatoes, eggs, and beef- or lamb-broth (for the gelatin and mineral content in particular) will prevent the tryptophan excess that suppresses the thyroid and is potentially a nerve toxin. Saturated fats, used regularly, reduce the immediate toxic antimetabolic effects of the stored unsaturated fats, but it takes a long time to change the balance of stored fats."

It tends to intefere with the absorption and metabolism of other minerals like zinc and magnesium when the person has a low metabolism.

--
Does your milk have added vitamins? In some people it can disrupt sleep, depending on the dose, their balance and time ingested; not sure why..

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Does your milk have added vitamins? In some people it can disrupt sleep, depending on the dose, their balance and time ingested; not sure why..

Thanks for your response, Brian is one smart dude....I had originally been drinking a local raw whole milk (certified A-2 Guernsey goodness) and I adored it, but I think it was too much fat for me to loose fat, so I never drank a lot of it.

Then I switched to organic 1% milk from Costco in order to lose body fat. I did not love the Costco moo and so drank maybe only a pint per day mixed in coffee and made up for the rest in low fat cheese (also not my favorite).

After losing 38 pounds I quit the very low fat gig and went back to regular eating (I never want to eat Fage 0% again...ever). A year and a half later I decided I wanted to lose the Dreaded Last Ten (or fifteen) pounds of excess flab and opted for this dietary experiment.

In my latest experiment I decided to go with Organic Valley 1% milk which tastes much better than the Costco sh*t....so I guess what I'm getting at is I don't know what the exact cause of my brain issue was.

OPTIONS, please vote for the most likely:

1. Was it the Organic Valley 1% (a milk I had never drank before)???
2. Or was it just too much much A-1 milk in general? Or simply too much milk?
3. Or was my metabolism on fire (I was smokin' lava hot ) and perhaps I didn't have the anti-oxidant status to cope, so ma brain suffered???
4. Or did all that milk cause an endotoxic overgrowth again? (my tongue did go white and furry)
5. Or am I just allergic to dairy? I did test positive for IgE antibodies to milk back in 2011, but I have never had typical allergy symptoms...unless brain damage IS a symptom and I'm just so dumb from decades of dairy eating that I can't see it. Peat told me that IgE blood tests for food allergies aren't reliable and can mean the exact opposite.
6. Or is this dairy lectin sensitivity? I've only very recently learned that there are lectins in dairy...I thought they were only in grains and beans.

I'd like to give this diet another try because I felt awesome while the awesomeness lasted, but I also NEED ma sleep and don't wish to risk another brain meltdown. I also get cold sores on my mouth every single time this happens, it's horrific on every level.

Please help The Dimwit figure this out...she's slow, be kind.

Please...look into your heart

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Has anybody tried this ?

I'm going to give this diet another try with raw goat milk this time around.

“When a person wants to lose excess fat, limiting the diet to low fat milk, eggs, orange juice, and a daily carrot or two, will provide the essential nutrients without excess calories.”--RP

My goat milk isn't low fat, but I'm no where near as hypo as I used to be, so my calorie budget is much more forgiving....I need to lose 7-12 pounds.

Wish me luck!

 

[Ukall]

@thebigpeatowski Good luck! Keep us posted

 

[Ukall]

@thebigpeatowski Are you still continuing the experiment? If yes, how is it going? :)

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Hi Ukall,

Yes, I'm still consuming goat milk, OJ, eggs and carrots.....but also lots of other foods. I have a very strong appetite and much more energy so limiting calories is no longer an option. I feel awesome.

In the same vain of never going low-carb again, I've come to the conclusion that I cannot go low-fat again....at least not now. My brain desperately needs the fat in my whole goat milk/sheep cheese, so I'm completely unwilling to give it up.

I've been working on increasing my movement/exercise in order to lose some body fat. I don't have a lot to lose and it's very slow going, I'm okay with that.

Goat milk is the answer for me as far as not causing the brain problems I was having before, no more immunological meltdowns. HOORAY!

Thanks for asking Ukall!

 

[ecstatichamster]

Yay!!!,@thebigpeatowski !!

 

[Philomath]

In this recent interview transcript (Cholesterol Is An Important Molecule, KMUD, 2008) Ray talks about a fit-for-all quick therapy diet destined to get the thyroid and the liver going, to suppress inflammation, and to lower chronic blood pressure.




Has anybody tried this ?

My own adaptation would be to take the OJ with some baking soda ( to decrease acidity) and switch to goat (or A2) milk instead of cow milk, in case people have issues with regular milk.

And maybe use low fat / defatted milk, in order to avoid putting on pounds initially.

I've been doing this, or a close approximation, for the past week now. Some days a 1/2 gallon of skim milk, some days three cups with several cups of no fat Greek yogurt. I'll also supplement with Casein powder too. Roughly double to triple the grams of protein with Carbs in the form of Sugar, OJ, honey and sugared Coke or Pepsi. I'll have an egg or two every other day and and about a 1/2 ounce of liver a day. Some coffee, some supplements, but mostly dairy and sugar. I'm also working out a couple times a week but not too strenuous. So far, I've lost a few pounds and my wife has noticed a flatter tummy. My heartbeat is mostly in the high 70's to 90's with temps varying greatly. The last few days they've been in the low 98's which is very good for me. I'll post my results in more detail after a few weeks.

 

[burtlancast]

I've been doing this, or a close approximation, for the past week now. Some days a 1/2 gallon of skim milk, some days three cups with several cups of no fat Greek yogurt. I'll also supplement with Casein powder too. Roughly double to triple the grams of protein with Carbs in the form of Sugar, OJ, honey and sugared Coke or Pepsi. I'll have an egg or two every other day and and about a 1/2 ounce of liver a day. Some coffee, some supplements, but mostly dairy and sugar. I'm also working out a couple times a week but not too strenuous. So far, I've lost a few pounds and my wife has noticed a flatter tummy. My heartbeat is mostly in the high 70's to 90's with temps varying greatly. The last few days they've been in the low 98's which is very good for me. I'll post my results in more detail after a few weeks.

Thanks for posting.
Are you trying to fix a particular health problem, or is it just to see if you feel better on it ?

 

[Philomath]

Thanks for posting.
Are you trying to fix a particular health problem, or is it just to see if you feel better on it ?

Thank you for asking! No serious health threats... just the normal ailments and weight gain of a 46 year old. However, I've always had a low metabolism and I probably would have been/may be diagnosed as ADD. I also find I need to prove this Peat logic to people...they want to stay on the traditional and comfortable path. So if I can show them it works maybe my wife, Kids, mother with Alzheimers and father-in-law with MS/Parkinson's will take heed!
This is a modified Brown/Burr diet if I'm not mistaken. I asked Dr. Peat once about following that diet (milk, simple syrup, starch biscuit,etc) and he said he would swap OJ for the simple syrup.

 

[burtlancast]

In order to prove categorically the benefits of the diet, you of course would need the old VO2 max test from around 1940 Ray talked about (measure of the maximum consumption of oxygen), which was the best test to evaluate one's metabolism and detect hypothyroidism.

I wonder if it's still in use somewhere.

I wonder too if you feel well with the powdered caseine? In case it contains A1 caseine, that would cause inflammation ( but i know Ray disagrees).

 

[invictus]

As I try to 'digest' the nuts and bolts of this post, what I think I discern, regarding how to eat in a RP perspective, is something akin to a variation of 'grazing'; eating little bits of nutritionally dense foods, along with substantial amounts of carbs, throughout the day, until bedtime, which promotes stable blood sugar, along with a stable body temperature, supporting stable metabolic function and energy production. Do I have the gist of that, correct?

 

[Amazoniac]

Hey @gilson dantas, a few more things for your consideration.
Have you tried apple juice? I'm mentioning this because slow metabolism is better suited to foods that are grown away from the tropics. Vit E requirements are increased in proportion to C. The composition of the foods are in such way that might allow you to recover the metabolism in a more natural way, being more suitable for this given circumstance.
Just like fats that are better suited for warm temperatures, the sugars and acids of fruits probably develop in the same way. When the metabolism is weaker, you can't oxidize saturated fats properly, which is why in most degenerative diseases unsaturated fats don't pose an immediate problem, especially if acquired from natural sources. It has nothing to do with their cumulative effect in the long-term or how impairing they would be in an ideal situation.
You could still concile a stimulating and safe diet to get out of this state by slowly transitioning and incorporating more tropical fruits as desired.
Again, Ray is aware that the vit E needs increase much more than C in slow metabolisms (quoted here before). Excess C and some other compounds might impair proper oxidation flow when the metabolism is not sharp.
Dairy supports life everywhere.
Tubers develop almost everywhere.

And again, shellfish might give you valuable nutrients.

Have you noticed how fibromyalgic patients often find benefit from malic acid? An organic acid that happens to appear abundantly in apples that happen to grow away from the tropics? It can be a coincidence, but it's something that deserves some consideration.

You might expect that even the antimicrobials contained in them would be more protective for a weak metabolism, where it's expected to find more complex pathogenic microbes that are slower in their development. Apples for example have more potent antifungal compounds, which is why apple cider vinegar is widely recommended for fungal infestations.

This has been throughly discussed in Koch's work.

To put it simply: it's all about matching foods to a slowed down capacity (gbolduev) or using crutch substances that emulate a strong metabolism until you can stand on your own feet again without assistance (haidut).

Continuing this thought, and for those that orange juice didn't help, perhaps apple juice is an alternative:

If you leave an apple and an orange inside the refrigerator, the apple lasts much longer. If you cut the fruits, the apple immediately darkens, the orange keeps well for longer. As Ray mentioned, since a lot of problems are related to the inefficient reduced state, lack of dynamicity and flow, with accumulation; adding an oxidant, not antioxidants, sometimes can restore the flow. That's why things that oxidize easily are often toxic for us but work as a desperate approach for those that are weak, as mentioned above.
Not only that but the "antioxidants" in excess of needs often react with oxidant trace metals such as zinc, copper, iron in a negative way that can make the situation worse.
That's why Ray's recommendations are supposed to be titrated with temporary crutches.

 

[Amazoniac]

I was always amazed by how big cities function. Water supply is an example, I always questioned how our water arrives relatively clean, considering how far they travel and how many things it must encounter and is exposed to on its way. But it all comes down to this dynamicity, pretty much like the flow in the body. The mere circulation and even flow is responsible for preventing bad things from developing in it (remember uncle Will's "expect poison from standing water"?), there must be pathogens everywhere throughout the extension of the tubes. If sometimes happens on it's walls that constricts the flow, there are going to be regions affected, sometimes a slight aberration is enough to start the development of problems in that region. If the flow isn't enough to restore normal function, something external has to intervene to help, otherwise soon enough it becomes a generalized problem that will affect everything that depends on it. A clogged sink, that sometimes can be unplugged as soon as you can open a hole, behaving like the heart that's restoring its vitality in each contraction, so does the congested area that sometimes can be unclogged with just that tiny hole that allows water to pass through it, and each times it passes, it carries more debris, until the flow is restored and the debris cleared.
As Ray often mentions, there are pathogens everywhere in body, they only become a problem where they are allowed to develop. If you try to address them directly, each "hit" might be enough stimulus for them to become stronger and more resistant.

By the way, Gershom Zajicek talks a lot of this ability of organisms to build tolerance for things and also how life is a constant streaming process. Even the brain formation is based on this streaming, and it's outer appearance is its less alive state, which might explain its coloration. It's core is the most alive. Women often mention how alive they feel around burtlan, it's because he can gaze their soul, inside, where they are most alive. The streaming that Gershom talks on almost every video is really the constant migration from life to death, just like an organism that becomes sterile from a certain point in life, so do cells that are migrating. From the stem cells that have a lot of potential to the dying and shedding state when they no longer differentiate. Note how the cells that have a high turn over rate maintain their integrity all way through, contrary to the outer skin and hair, that consists mainly of cells that have lost their vitality:

Many factors that participate in cellular respiration are unsaturated in their nature. Vitamin A, D, B1, B2, mostly because it's the way of propagating reactions. For structural purposes saturated fats are stable and appropriate, yet the ones obtained from structural parts of other animals are more difficult to be burned, especially if the metabolism is weak.

People that advocate a raw diet because of the enzymes in foods are well aware of the fact that the volatile compounds are the ones that increase the proneness of reactions to occur. Cooked foods have lost this, just like the fats clogging arteries that become saturated as the vulnerable points react. Ray mentioned that those enzymes are insignificant compared to the capacity of the enzymes in the body, but sometimes it isn't functioning optimally and it needs some external assistance.

Ray commented many times how the intestines are susceptible to becoming congested because of toxic compounds generated there, and its walls can't respire, they suffocate. Paul Jaminet a long time ago posted directions for people with constipation, it involves the addition of "antioxidants", sometimes in free metal forms. It's just the opposite, because they are so prone to oxidize, that as soon as they reach the congested area they can restore the flow. NAC, as suggested, has this same potential (search for "nac gsh gssg").
Many times the addition of vit C during constipation is problematic, unless it reaches a point where you have so much of it that it tips the reaction in the other direction and behaves like an oxidant. The approaches of administering vit C to bowel tolerance is actually the addition of something that behaves pretty much like one more of the "catalyst reagents", being able to carry on the chain reaction.
The Effects of High Concentrations of Vitamin C on Cancer Cells

One of the reasons why exercise is helpful I guess is because the body simply can't afford being congested.

A lot of members can't function properly without stimulants, I suppose that this is expected since Ray's suggestions are supportive in a robust metabolism. Some members are not titrating stimulants properly meanwhile suppressing alternative energy sources with things like high-dose niacinamide and aspirin. Thankfully in those situation the body manages to suppress activity even more.

I still don't have an answer for this (no sarcasm, as I really question myself the same thing): if fruit is so superior, why a fruit seller don't eat them exclusively as their source of carbohydrate, instead of his usual varied diet?

If people are afraid of endotoxin from starch, the toxins and metabolites that can go out of whack from the improper metabolism of animal proteins are much more concerning: tryptophan, arginine, histidine, and so on. Even gelatin seems to go awry when the body isn't functioning properly ("everything is dangerous in hypopboydism, hypogeorginism, and hyposuchism"), which is why I suppose that most authors that deal with people that are debilitated actually recommend protein minimization/restriction.

All this just to encourage people to pay more attention to coherence. Eating and living based on desire is the easiest way to accomplish this. Food needs to be appetizing and bring satisfaction, sometimes a mental block is enough to limit the person of the possibilities available, making the options narrower and a monotonous diet becomes acceptable.
pboy often talked about courage in detaching ourselves from the sense of security. I guess that it applies here for those that insist on doing something that isn't working.

Now, good digestion wait on appetite — And... | Ray Peat Forum

Check this from Max Gerson's book, discussing how he developed his therapy:

I do want to make the mistake Winston Churchill expressed so clearly: "Men occasionally stumble over the Truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

 

[Amazoniac]

Coconut Oil
"Since we would expect the small percentage of unsaturated oils naturally contained in coconut oil to become rancid, it seems that the other (saturated) oils have an antioxidative effect: I suspect that the dilution keeps the unstable unsaturated fat molecules spatially separated from each other, so they can't interact in the destructive chain reactions that occur in other oils. To interrupt chain-reactions of oxidation is one of the functions of antioxidants, and it is possible that a sufficient quantity of coconut oil in the body has this function. It is well established that dietary coconut oil reduces our need for vitamin E, but I think its antioxidant role is more general than that, and that it has both direct and indirect antioxidant activities."

 

[Amazoniac]

An example of overwhelm:
Oxidative DNA Damage in Prostate Cancer Patients Consuming Tomato Sauce-Based Entrees as a Whole-Food Intervention | JNCI: Journal of the National Cancer Institute | Oxford Academic
"Because tomato products have been suspected to cause symptoms of heartburn and gastrointestinal distress, each patient was provided with a one-page checklist on which to record his experience of gastrointestinal adverse effects that could arise during the dietary intervention. These effects included, but were not limited to, the following: constipation, burping, gas and/or flatulence, nausea, bloating, diarrhea, cramping, and heartburn."

 

[raypeatclips]

@Amazoniac What do you mean by suppressing alternative energy sources with niacinamide and aspirin? Lipolysis? What is harmful about lowering that?