Red Light Therapy, Lights, Supplemental Lighting

[charlie]

Went to Walmart today and picked up a halogen light for around $12 it comes with an extra bulb too. Its the light at the top (SL-1002) on the page below. Its 500 watts.

http://www.baycoproducts.com/industrial ... ogens.html

Wow. That's an excellent price!
I'm planning a mixed array, like you Charlie.

Few mysteries for me still:

1. What about the retinal light therapy thing?
I feel like this may be dangerous with anything other than the regular incandescents.

2. In the late '90's, in a newsletter, Peat said intermittent bursts of short duration,
like of a few minutes per hour, might be as effective as sustained exposure to lower wattage.
I wish knew more about that. I'm not in love with the notion of sitting/lying under blindingly bright
lights for hours on end.

3. Peat told someone (see earlier in thread) in private consultation that the lights should be
focused primarily upon the head and abdomen.
-head=face...?
-abdomen...I wonder why better than, say, back...? I mean, if it is, as some think,
just a matter of max skin exposure....

4. Charlie, as you may have noticed, the HeelSpurs guy, Scott, has, in his halogen light therapy bed
photo, some red water filters. Now, I'm pitifully weak on light science, but my understanding is that the
red water filters out spectrums other than the desirable red we're after.
Halogen's, I think, have, in addition to a big blast of good reds, some substantial blues--
which are not desirable. (Then again, so does the sun...so maybe a silly concern).
But anyhow: I've been wondering if, when I get my halogens, I should try to rig up
some red water filters....

You should see how bright my area is right now!! WOOOWEEEEEE!

Yeh I saw about those red light filter do hickeys. I have an email into Scott about those. I am running without it right now, but wont run long like that. I rather filter out the bad stuff and I would suggest it for everyone else.

I dunno about the eye retinal stuff narouz???

In a radio interview, Peat said to get as much skin coverage as possible for light. So I am thinking to top of the body has the most skin maybe, so thats why he says that, I dunno.

Ann, why make things simple? Dont you see we try to complicate it as much as possible? Just kidding around, but yeh, I wonder if red light filters would work to? But, incandescents are pretty cheap, I just picked up this halogen lamp pretty cheap, so these light solutions we are doing are pretty cheap if you ask me. You can even get an LED array for under $40 for intense red light therapy for injuries and stuff. But like Scott says over at heelspurs.com, halogen is the most powerful and best. And at $12 a pop, cant beat that!!!!

 

[AnnB]

I'm covered on the Halogen lamp as well, like you picked up at Wal-mart. I realized I had the same thing that I picked up at a yard sale a year or so ago. It's a nice compact size and adjustable unit.

 

[charlie]

Just be careful with it, they get very very hot and could possibly ignite something close to it.

 

[kettlebell]

The food coloring is probably not needed (I wasn't able to tell much difference in the heat, and the Blue/green/yellow wavelengths might be good for the skin). The six 500 W flood lights use a total of 3,000 Watts and would need to be on two different electrical circuits in most U.S. houses without tripping a breaker.

This quote is from the heelspurs site. He is referring to using several 500w (Halogen) In bold he says blocking light is probably not needed EDIT: And that is with the light of 6 X 500w lamps shining on your front. He also says again on the site (Although I have lost where) that blocking the light is not necessary. I don't think we need to worry.

Initially he discusses a halogen spot light shining through a snow globe to block far infrared on a particular area of skin. For this he wore sunglasses to stop the white light which from a spot lamp is intense and can damage eyes.

He then says using the above flood lights are safer. The reason he recommends the ziplock bag filled with water is to stop the far infrared heating - If the lamp isnt too close to the skin I would imaging this would not be a problem for longer duration bursts. He talks about the actual heating (Going above 41 degrees C) being the problem causing second degree burns if left on for too long - In other words the light itself (Although it causes the heat) isn't the problem itself, the heat is.

For the above reasons I am going to have 2 X 500W flood lamps shining on my back from maybe 1-2 metres away being wary of skin heating without having anything to block the other spectrums. As long as a lamp like this isn't shining in your eyes, OR if it is just ear sunglasses. EDIT: My back got hot fast so fixed the issue by having a fan on which sorted it. It just feels warm now and pleasant. EDIT: I am going with 1 500w halogen shining on my front and one on my back while sitting on a stool at my desk. I'm just gonna wear sunglasses and not look at the lamp

I have seen mention of people putting the 14w 650nm led erray on their stomachs - Even then heating can become an issue if not well ventilated. If it goes above 41 degrees C you will still get the same second degree burns due to the heating combined with the light if you leave it on for too long. Definitely something to be wary of with the LEDs.

 

[charlie]

kettlebell, thank you for clarifying that for us!

I sent an email to Scott about this, and here is our conversation:

Scott, thank you for your repsonse. Ok but what about the damaging blue part of the halogen? You said it was bad on the eyes? I plan on using it most of the day and up till I go to sleep in my work/relaxing area.

Well don't look at it, but if that's not possible, then go with the reds
or an 850 nm infrared.

 

[Steveig84]

we have one of these at work....

http://www.beauty-angel.de/content/inde ... p_plus.htm

any opions? is this the right kind of light?

 

[kettlebell]

Hi Charlie,

No problem, I feel confident that Halogens are the way to go. We can avoid problems by just simply not look directly at it (Or use sunglasses if you cant avoid looking at it).

Put simply - Halogen lamps kick out not far off, as much light in the therapeutic range as the sun, and a lot less light in the undesirable ranges, therefore it is, in my opinion, the best type of light source to go for. Other choices are not as good if you are going to use only one type of bulb. Mixing sources is another matter of course.

Hi Steveig84,

We cant see what wavelengths the machine operates at so cant really say. From what I have heard some commercial machines don't actually emit much of the actual light we are after for the therapeutic effect: 600-850nm. Many of them do but unless you can get the exact nm range of the unit its hard to tell unless you have a spectroscope handy with a built in wavelength scale. You can actually pick them up for about £40 and they are easy to use.

 

[narouz]

Hi Steveig84,

We cant see what wavelengths the machine operates at so cant really say. From what I have heard some commercial machines don't actually emit much of the actual light we are after for the therapeutic effect: 600-850nm. Many of them do but unless you can get the exact nm range of the unit its hard to tell unless you have a spectroscope handy with a built in wavelength scale. You can actually pick them up for about £40 and they are easy to use.

Somewhere back in the thread I found the bulb (fluorescent)
they use in these beds.
As I recall they had a very narrow spike of energy somewhere in the 600's (nm).
So...not the continuous energy pattern Peat extolls.

 

[narouz]

Hear is that post I was talking about.

Just another data point in this discussion:

As you may've noticed,
some salons are now offering "Red Light Therapy"
in what you'd normally look at and think is a tanning bed.
They just change the (fluorescent) bulbs
from tanning bulbs to "red light bulbs."

I checked up on those red light bulbs.
The biggest maker is "Interlectric,"
and their red light bulb (fluorescent)
just emits red light at the wavelengths 615 – 635 nm.

http://www.interlectric.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Interlectric_general_lighting_catalog.pdf

So that is the visible red spectrum
and probably would be considered "discontinuous" by Peat.
No near infrared at all.

 

[narouz]

I guess I shouldn't come off as so dismissive of the fluorescent red light bulb
just because it has a discontinuous red spectrum.
After all, I think the LED panel I just bought (see a few posts back)
has a similar, discontinuous spike of energy at around 630nm or so.

Not ideal according to Peat's "continuous" criterion, but...
...likely still valuable.

 

[kettlebell]

If anyone is a bit of a science geek (Physics) like me, this is the best full electromagnetic spectrum chart I have seen Really good.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... ectrum.png

I still find it fascinating that, light, heat, radio etc are all the same thing, just at different wavelengths.


The strongest/hottest/brightest wavelengths emitted are when super massive stars go hypernova (Massive explosion when the star dies, even more massive than a supernova explosion).

The explosion lets off what is the brightest electromagnetic event known to occur in the universe. Its called a Gamma Ray Burst. They can last from about 1 second to 8-9 weeks. Thats a lot of energy haha.

A hypernova gamma Ray Burst as the star explodes will normally emit more energy in 1-2 second than our sun burns in its whole time time.

ALL of our rare metals can only be formed in the heat of a supernova/hypernova explosion as the material from the star ejects at Mach 1000+, about 30 000 km/s. The inner material collides with the outer material which forms the super hot plasma where the atoms are forced together into new heavy metals. This is why our heavy "Precious" metals are rare.

That ring you are wearing on your finger (Gold or silver or platinum) was only formed in the last dying explosion of a star where the temperature reaches in excess of 100 billion degrees celcius. A temperature that can only be reached during this rare event.

It is likely that our sun was formed from the dust, matter and gasses from a star that went supernova long before it some of it condensed under gravity to later form our star. The remainder of that material formed our plantet and the others in our solar system.

In other words, every single atom we are made of, every single thing we eat, everything we see around us was formed in the furnace of a massive star . Our atoms were once at hundreds of billions of degrees. We know this as otherwise there would be no precious metals and likely no life on our planet.

This is what the aftermath of a supernova looks like. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Main_ ... t_full.jpg

I love this stuff.

...................But I digress..................... Red light makes me feel nice.

 

[charlie]

Very cool stuff kettlebell! That aftermath of a supernova pic is spectacular.

On this page below has another breakdown of the light spectrum that I though was pretty useful.

http://www.gizmology.net/LEDs.htm

 

[narouz]

If anyone is a bit of a science geek (Physics) like me, this is the best full electromagnetic spectrum chart I have seen Really good.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... ectrum.png

I still find it fascinating that, light, heat, radio etc are all the same thing, just at different wavelengths.


The strongest/hottest/brightest wavelengths emitted are when super massive stars go hypernova (Massive explosion when the star dies, even more massive than a supernova explosion).

The explosion lets off what is the brightest electromagnetic event known to occur in the universe. Its called a Gamma Ray Burst. They can last from about 1 second to 8-9 weeks. Thats a lot of energy haha.

A hypernova gamma Ray Burst as the star explodes will normally emit more energy in 1-2 second than our sun burns in its whole time time.

ALL of our rare metals can only be formed in the heat of a supernova/hypernova explosion as the material from the star ejects at Mach 1000+, about 30 000 km/s. The inner material collides with the outer material which forms the super hot plasma where the atoms are forced together into new heavy metals. This is why our heavy "Precious" metals are rare.

That ring you are wearing on your finger (Gold or silver or platinum) was only formed in the last dying explosion of a star where the temperature reaches in excess of 100 billion degrees celcius. A temperature that can only be reached during this rare event.

It is likely that our sun was formed from the dust, matter and gasses from a star that went supernova long before it some of it condensed under gravity to later form our star. The remainder of that material formed our plantet and the others in our solar system.

In other words, every single atom we are made of, every single thing we eat, everything we see around us was formed in the furnace of a massive star . Our atoms were once at hundreds of billions of degrees. We know this as otherwise there would be no precious metals and likely no life on our planet.

This is what the aftermath of a supernova looks like. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Main_ ... t_full.jpg

I love this stuff.

...................But I digress..................... Red light makes me feel nice.

Are you Under the Influence of Red Light, kettlebell...?

 

[narouz]

Very cool stuff kettlebell! That aftermath of a supernova pic is spectacular.

On this page below has another breakdown of the light spectrum that I though was pretty useful.

http://www.gizmology.net/LEDs.htm

So, according to this chart, the light from the fluorescent, "bed" red bulb, 615 – 635 nm,
is not even, strictly, within the "Red" spectrum (640-700nm).
It is in the Orange-Red spectrum.

The LED arrays we're getting, Charley, (see a few posts back) at 650nm
are just inside the lower threshold of the Red spectrum.

This is not to say those lights are not viable Peat red lights.
Just that they do only cover a part of the Peat-preferred 600-820nm wavelengths.
And, seemingly, they are not very "continuous,"
another Peat preference.

 

[charlie]

Halogen looking pretty good right about now, huh narouz? I still think there is a place for that LED array, and I do plan on getting one, or making one. Scotts LED array has LED's in the 660nm and 850nm. Looking around, it looks like 660nm is about the best choice you can get for red light LED's. So the 650nm isnt far off at all.

On a side note. The off gassing on the halogen light I got is pretty strong. Gave me a headache. Running it outside right now to hopefully burn all the stuff off. If it doesnt get better I will have to take it back. Wonder if they put lead in the paint? Coming from China most likely, I will need to check.

 

[narouz]

Halogen looking pretty good right about now, huh narouz? I still think there is a place for that LED array, and I do plan on getting one, or making one. Scotts LED array has LED's in the 660nm and 850nm. Looking around, it looks like 660nm is about the best choice you can get for red light LED's. So the 650nm isnt far off at all.

On a side note. The off gassing on the halogen light I got is pretty strong. Gave me a headache. Running it outside right now to hopefully burn all the stuff off. If it doesnt get better I will have to take it back. Wonder if they put lead in the paint? Coming from China most likely, I will need to check.

Chinese products are an excellent source of lead.

I bet it will be alright, Charlie.
Probably just the paint, and I'd guess it's not lead-based.
Even if it is, after it burns off the smelly stuff,
I'd consider it safe, unless you're driven to gnaw on the stand and housing
(caused by a deficiency of solid Peat food, of course. ).

 

[kettlebell]

The off gassing on the halogen light I got is pretty strong. Gave me a headache. Running it outside right now to hopefully burn all the stuff off. If it doesnt get better I will have to take it back

I had the same thing when I purchased my flood lamp. Burned off after a couple of hours of use. I think its the plastic that heats and gives of f the smell. No smell at all from it now.

One of these:
http://www.wickes.co.uk/500w-portable-s ... vt/702891/

 

[charlie]

Chinese products are an excellent source of lead.

I bet it will be alright, Charlie.
Probably just the paint, and I'd guess it's not lead-based.
Even if it is, after it burns off the smelly stuff,
I'd consider it safe, unless you're driven to gnaw on the stand and housing
(caused by a deficiency of solid Peat food, of course. ).

So comforting, thanks! I am pretty flooded with liquids right now, dont think I will be hungry for a while.

I had the same thing when I purchased my flood lamp. Burned off after a couple of hours of use. I think its the plastic that heats and gives of f the smell. No smell at all from it now.

One of these:
http://www.wickes.co.uk/500w-portable-s ... vt/702891/

Hopefully it gets better. I placed it outside on my porch for now and let er burn. BTW, my little chihuahua is laying right in front of it basking in the rays. That dog knows whats up.

 

[HDD]

Haha my pug loves my 250w heat lamp! :)

 

[chris]

One of these:
http://www.wickes.co.uk/500w-portable-s ... vt/702891/

kettlebell - Let me know if that light is any good. Do you have the 110v site transformer that apparently is required?
Thanks.