ß-Ionone As An DHT-analouge?

[LeeLemonoil]

Cedrol, sry typo in haste

 

[Ras]

Cedrol, sry typo in haste

No worries. Thanks. Do you think it's effective for promoting hair growth in humans?

 

[LeeLemonoil]

No worries. Thanks. Do you think it's effective for promoting hair growth in humans?

I'd think so yes, publications look promising. And it should penetrate rather easily.
OK We So Know Prostaglandin D2 Is The Main Driver Behind Baldness. What Can We Do About It?

See my post 77 for the links.

 

[Ras]

I'd think so yes, publications look promising. And it should penetrate rather easily.
OK We So Know Prostaglandin D2 Is The Main Driver Behind Baldness. What Can We Do About It?

See my post 77 for the links.

Great. Thank you.

 

[KyleKingsly]

No.
Mind that the studies indicate that BI binds the same OR like DHT, that’s no proof it acts androgenic in any way.
But used as a diluted perfume-like „inhalation“ agent, it seems to have grounding, steadying mental effects, not unlike androgenic molecules. It‘s very likely also an aromatase Inhibitor in the CNS

Wow that's really fascinating. I'm in the U.S., and have the ability to try out those sources you listed. The price is definitely right, but I'm a bit concerned about the safety on inhaling some unknown relatively substance (altho to be honest I feel safe about doing pretty much the same thing with pheromones, probably because a lot of other people are doing that and seem to be doing fine.)

Mostly, I'm worried about potentially shutting down my natural Testosterone production (which already isn't the best), as DHT does. We really don't have any way of knowing whether this stuff would do the same or not, right?

 

[LeeLemonoil]

It won’t. If you use commercial perfumes or perfumed household products, you’ve inhaled beta-ionone all your life. It’s also in some fruits, legumes and beverages naturally.
It‘s only that in contrast where Ionone is often used as mixed isomers, using beta alone seems much more favourable to me.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

It’s a breakdown product of carotenoids when they undergo transformation into vitamin A - it’s sort of a vitamin itself I‘d say

 

[LeeLemonoil]

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2018/01/04/243204.full.pdf

New publication on the OR expressed in Prostate Cancer that beta-Ionone is a ligand of.
Seems this receptor plays a crucial role in determining estrogens cancer-promoting effects. It also signals in situ genesis of estrogenic test-metabolites.

The text also gives some novel insights into the (protective) roles of spermin/spermidine and how some ligands of the ectopic receptor signals mechanisms that inhibit spermine/dine synthesis and also a novel mechanism of the cancerous effects of some polyamines. Might be of interest to @Travis therefore

 

[KyleKingsly]

It won’t. If you use commercial perfumes or perfumed household products, you’ve inhaled beta-ionone all your life. It’s also in some fruits, legumes and beverages naturally.
It‘s only that in contrast where Ionone is often used as mixed isomers, using beta alone seems much more favourable to me.

That sounds pretty promising, but we don't really have evidence of that, do we? Sure, I believe that I ionone all the time, but definitely not frequently and not in nearly the same concentration we're suggesting. It seems similar to essential oils vs whole plants, we're talking about so much more of a powerful product that it could have pretty different effects.

 

[KyleKingsly]

Just sent this thread along to Haidut and this is what he had to say: "Anything that binds to the same receptors as DHT, as that guy in the thread said, will trigger the same negative mechanisms and also suppress endogenous steroid synthesis. So, I don't think ionone will avoid the side effects and in addition I am not comfortable with this completely untested chemical." @LeeLemonoil

That is what I expected as well, so I think we can't safely recommend this stuff to anyone given the lack of information and probable suppression. If anyone really wants more DHT-like results, it's probably best to get DHT the ways we already know (along with Butea Superba, perhaps).

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Just for the record, I‘m not recommending b-ionone to anyone, only that it might be a worthwhile substance for some more tests/investigations.

It‘s not known if it binds to other receptors that dht binds to apart from the one OR described in the studies, but it’s possible of course but I‘d say no.
The newest study I posted above is very relevant. It shows that when the OR is activated in prostate cells, this stimulated in siru steroidgenesis. DHT would do the same. If beta-ionone has broadly the same beneficial effects as dht, b-ionone might stimulate protective androgen synthesis - quite the opposite of shutting down.
But that’s all speculation mind, the research can’t tell for sure or I don’t understand everything. I hoped someone with more knowledge would look into the papers posted, especially the most recent one

 

[LeeLemonoil]

β-ionone inhibits nonalcoholic fatty liver disease and its association with hepatocarcinogenesis in male Wistar rats. - PubMed - NCBI

β-ionone inhibits nonalcoholic fatty liver disease and its association with hepatocarcinogenesis in male Wistar rats.

Among the primary neoplasias that affect the liver, hepatocellular carcinoma (HCC) is the most frequent and the third leading cause of death related to cancer. Several risk factors predispose individuals to HCC such as nonalcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD), whose incidence has significantly increased worldwide. β-ionone (βI) isoprenoid is a known chemopreventive of hepatocarcinogenesis. However, the effects of this compound on NAFLD isolated or in association with hepatocarcinogenesis have not yet been evaluated. A high-fat emulsion administered for 6 weeks resulted in NAFLD in male rats, and oral treatment with βI during this period significantly attenuated its development. Moreover, the presence of NAFLD potentiated hepatocarcinogenesis induced by the resistant hepatocyte (RH) model in these animals by increasing the number and percentage of the liver section area occupied by placental glutathione S-transferase (GST-P)-positive persistent preneoplastic lesions (pPNLs), that are thought to evolve into HCC. This indicates that this NAFLD/RH protocol is suitable for studies of the influence of NAFLD on the HCC development. Therefore, here we also investigated the chemopreventive effect of βI under these two associated conditions. In this context, βI reduced the number and percentage of the liver section area occupied by pPNLs, as well as cell proliferation and the number of oval cells, which are considered potential targets for the development of HCC. Thus, βI presents not only a promising inhibitory effect on NAFLD isolated but also chemopreventive activity when it is associated with hepatocarcinogenesis.

Might have to do with BI doing this from an earlier publicaton:

significantly induced the liver microsomal activities of P450-associated enzymes and NADPH-P450 reductase, but also clearly increased in the level of P450 1A1/2, P450 2C, and NADPH-P450 reductase proteins. The induction of P450 1A1/2 and 2C by beta-ionone was much greater in male than in female as measured by western immunoblotting

 

[ecstatichamster]

Beta ionones are used in perfumery as they smell like violets and iris...

I find this very interesting...

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Structurally related odorant ligands of the olfactory receptor OR51E2 differentially promote metastasis emergence and tumor growth. - PubMed - NCBI

This one is concerning and doesn’t seem in line with all the positive androgen-mimeticum effects of b-ionone seen in the other publications here. It doesn’t fit with the positive effects of androgens seen in prostate cancer @ecstatichamster

 

[TheBeard]

So Chalconoids, of which ß-Ionone is one, are aromatase-inhibitors as well:
Chalconoid - Wikipedia

Also:
Chalcones and their derivatives demonstrate wide range of biological activities such as anti-diabetic, anti-neoplastic, anti-hypertensive, anti-retroviral, anti-inflammatory, anti-parasitic, anti-histaminic, anti-malarial, anti-oxidant, anti-fungal, anti-obesity, anti-platelet, anti-tubercular, immunosuppressant, anti-arrhythmic, hypnotic, anti-gout, anxiolytic, anti-spasmodic, anti-nociceptive, hypolipidemic, anti-filarial, anti-angiogenic, anti-protozoal, anti-bacterial, anti-steroidal, cardioprotective, etc

I've outlined in this thread that ß-Ionone show some similar properties as DHT in some specific tissues.
We here are convinced of many positive healt-effects of DHT and androgens, ß-Ionone/Chalcones might act in some way as exogenous analouges to androgens.
They might be promising agent for topical applications as well, especially ß-Ionone, given that it is penetrative and fat-slouble by itself (Hairloss-tratment?)

Some more anti-cancer action studies additionaly to the one's above:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0223523416305980
β-Ionone and its analogs as promising anticancer agents

Anti-cancer chalcones: Structural and molecular target perspectives - ScienceDirect
Anti-cancer chalcones: Structural and molecular target perspectives

Curiously, the picture does not seem so bright as a whole. Here is a study that claims meatstasis inducing effects of Ionones n prostate cancer:
Structurally related odorant ligands of the olfactory receptor OR51E2 differentially promote metastasis emergence and tumor growth. - PubMed - NCBI

The word you are looking for is analogue.

Not analogous
Not analyg
Not analbygous

It’s analogue

Jesus Christ...