Strange Symptoms And Myalgia

[BastiFuntasty]

For me I can tell, that there is absolutely no supplement that helped with my myalgia, only with fat loss and libido. Whenever i get adrenaline response, the pain is immediately back. Even when I want to sleep a little longer in the morning the pain kicks in harder. It seems like its controlling me, driving me into things I do not want to do. Leaving me behind alone, left by half of my family, since noone believes me.
Doctors now revealed me, my creatine kinase values were as elevated as during heart attacks.

My last hope is, that it is really just all mind related.
Hopefullly you are doing better Interactome?

 

[jb116]

For me I can tell, that there is absolutely no supplement that helped with my myalgia, only with fat loss and libido. Whenever i get adrenaline response, the pain is immediately back. Even when I want to sleep a little longer in the morning the pain kicks in harder. It seems like its controlling me, driving me into things I do not want to do. Leaving me behind alone, left by half of my family, since noone believes me.
Doctors now revealed me, my creatine kinase values were as elevated as during heart attacks.

My last hope is, that it is really just all mind related.
Hopefullly you are doing better Interactome?

I helped an individual with elevated cpk and the way to look at it is not necessarily as a heart attack but that other muscle break down in the body can increase this value.
This person is of rather large frame and stature and I made him realize he simply wasn't getting enough protein and nutrients to support his size. The adrenalin you mentioned
is totally related as is the overall myalgia. If muscle tissue is broken down to sustain you, you get the elevated kinase as well as general body pain.

 

[Blossom]

I helped an individual with elevated cpk and the way to look at it is not necessarily as a heart attack but that other muscle break down in the body can increase this value.
This person is of rather large frame and stature and I made him realize he simply wasn't getting enough protein and nutrients to support his size. The adrenalin you mentioned
is totally related as is the overall myalgia. If muscle tissue is broken down to sustain you, you get the elevated kinase as well as general body pain.

Great post jb116!

 

[BastiFuntasty]

I helped an individual with elevated cpk and the way to look at it is not necessarily as a heart attack but that other muscle break down in the body can increase this value.
This person is of rather large frame and stature and I made him realize he simply wasn't getting enough protein and nutrients to support his size. The adrenalin you mentioned
is totally related as is the overall myalgia. If muscle tissue is broken down to sustain you, you get the elevated kinase as well as general body pain.

This gives me some last hope :)
Strange thing for me is, I already have so much nutrients and calories since years now. I do full peatish foods, no refined sugar no refined Proteins except gelatine and no refined Oils. My calorie Intake is about 4000 kcal at 80 kg with not so much muscle left @ 400-600g carbs and proteins at above 140g.
I even felt better while I was travelling around with bike at around 70 miles a day for a month and only had fruits and very low protein and fat intake, just small pain issues.
No connection to the mind? Something like anger and grief causing that ?

 

[jb116]

This gives me some last hope :)
Strange thing for me is, I already have so much nutrients and calories since years now. I do full peatish foods, no refined sugar no refined Proteins except gelatine and no refined Oils. My calorie Intake is about 4000 kcal at 80 kg with not so much muscle left @ 400-600g carbs and proteins at above 140g.
I even felt better while I was travelling around with bike at around 70 miles a day for a month and only had fruits and very low protein and fat intake, just small pain issues.
No connection to the mind? Something like anger and grief causing that ?

Sure anger and grief, especially looming can affect the rest of the body. If that pattern of thinking triggers these stress responses it can negatively impact
for example your muscles. How often do you think that way or have those thoughts?
What kind of proteins do you eat?
I see your calorie intake is high enough, but what do you typically eat for the day? High calorie doesn't mean balanced always.
Do you eat when you aren't hungry?
Biking is a good form of movement/exercise since there are periods of rest that one can take. That movement activates mecanoreceptors which block pain
receptors from acting up.

 

[BastiFuntasty]

Sure anger and grief, especially looming can affect the rest of the body. If that pattern of thinking triggers these stress responses it can negatively impact
for example your muscles. How often do you think that way or have those thoughts?
What kind of proteins do you eat?
I see your calorie intake is high enough, but what do you typically eat for the day? High calorie doesn't mean balanced always.
Do you eat when you aren't hungry?
Biking is a good form of movement/exercise since there are periods of rest that one can take. That movement activates mecanoreceptors which block pain
receptors from acting up.

I have those feelings a couple of times a day, especially when sourrounded by my own family who harm me with there uncaring behaviour.
Proteins are cheese, milk, gelatine, shrimps, seldom meat and eggs, and ruminants of potatoes, fruits and vegges.
A typical day is OJ + Gelatine, Milk and coconutcream in the morning , than dates + gelatine and small kind of cheese in between, potatoes with leafy greens and shrimps or cheese or meat and vegges at lunch. Than 2 or 3 more meals of the ones mentioned in the beginning.
I don't think I ever eat when I am not hungry, atm I'm from nowhere able to got to work, so I can structure the day and eat when I need to.

 

[Interactome]

For me I can tell, that there is absolutely no supplement that helped with my myalgia, only with fat loss and libido. Whenever i get adrenaline response, the pain is immediately back. Even when I want to sleep a little longer in the morning the pain kicks in harder. It seems like its controlling me, driving me into things I do not want to do. Leaving me behind alone, left by half of my family, since noone believes me.
Doctors now revealed me, my creatine kinase values were as elevated as during heart attacks.

My last hope is, that it is really just all mind related.
Hopefullly you are doing better Interactome?

Hi

I think in my case it's related to the stomach and some Candida overgrowth. I just did a food sensitivity test and an Organic Acid Test and it showed a slight overgrowth of Candida and multiple food sensitivities (IgG), like milk and eggs and other foods. So I gotta fix the stomach/gut/digestion and reduce the Candida.
I'm taking some probiotics: one Prescript Assist and also the Syntol that narouz mentioned. And also some digestive enzymes. And I've just started Nystatin. I've got both pills and some liquid with sugar in it.
Have you though about Candida overgrowth?
How much liver do you eat? I've just decided to have a bit more weekly. I haven't had any for a few months.

Stress-wise, I also have some issues for certain reasons, esp. when family doesn't understand and blames my diet or supplements instead of understanding that being supportive is important to reduce stress. That's apparently something we both have to work on. I keep on wanting to find that magic ingredient that can fix it all.

I still get the muscle pain if I stress, and very slow muscles when it's cold. I haven't found the exact reason yet. But being relaxed for longer periods does help with the pain.
Also, I've gotten slightly better sleep for the past two weeks by baking 1mg (quarter tablet) Cyproheptadine. I do feel more tired the day after, but that's ok. I try to take 2 days off the Cypro per week, maybe to avoid too much dependence... I haven't read enough yet to understand how receptors and hormone productions adapt.
Have you tried Cypro?

What tests have you done?
I have 23andme, uBiome, blood work and the food sensitivity and organic acid test. It would be interesting if you had the SNP data (23andme). One theory I had earlier is that I might have some sort of Glycogen Storage Disease. But it's kind of difficult to test. It might be just Candida and food sensitivities inhibiting proper nutrient assimilation and causing more stress and nutrient depletion.

There are a few other things the were slightly off on the organic acid test but it could all be related to the Candida. I'll try to learn about those organic acids online for a few days and interpret the results and see if I can see a connection to my supplement reactions. I've also just started taking ALCAR as messtafarian also mentioned (even though it's supposed to be anti-thyroid).

I think that until we find a way to heal, we should lay off of training. Now, if I train my thirst and strange palpitation like symptoms come on stronger within 12 hours. It must be related to a depletion.

Maybe we should start a blog, like many other sick people, detailing our journey to health :p

 

[jb116]

I have those feelings a couple of times a day, especially when sourrounded by my own family who harm me with there uncaring behaviour.
Proteins are cheese, milk, gelatine, shrimps, seldom meat and eggs, and ruminants of potatoes, fruits and vegges.
A typical day is OJ + Gelatine, Milk and coconutcream in the morning , than dates + gelatine and small kind of cheese in between, potatoes with leafy greens and shrimps or cheese or meat and vegges at lunch. Than 2 or 3 more meals of the ones mentioned in the beginning.
I don't think I ever eat when I am not hungry, atm I'm from nowhere able to got to work, so I can structure the day and eat when I need to.

Probably most would agree, you need to steer clear of that kind of environment and people. I know it's unfortunate that in this case its family, but I don't think anybody should be given a free pass to be abusive, even if it is family.
I am curious, would you say you get more protein from gelatin?
@Interactome I want to pose the same question to you about gelatin.

 

[Interactome]

I am curious, would you say you get more protein from gelatin?
@Interactome I want to pose the same question to you about gelatin.

More than before I started supplementing it. I get around 10-15g per day now (just switched to the green can), and supplement around 4-6g glycine. Rest is from meat and fish (cod, shrimp) now that I'm trying to avoid dairy and eggs (5 days now).

Probably most would agree, you need to steer clear of that kind of environment and people. I know it's unfortunate that in this case its family, but I don't think anybody should be given a free pass to be abusive, even if it is family.

I'd like to comment on this too. In my case the problem is that negative past experiences make it harder because small comments that hint at previous negative experiences trigger stressful reactions. I guess it would take some psychological training to become immune to such.

 

[Giraffe]

And I've just started Nystatin.

Thought about adding lysine?

Aspirin As An Antifungal Drug, Even Against Candida

 

[Interactome]

Thought about adding lysine?

Aspirin As An Antifungal Drug, Even Against Candida

I tried to take it last summer with the extra vit C.

I tried it again yesterday and tonight I felt some more palpitations and thirst. Though I also tried to take 200 mg vit C yesterday so I'm not sure which of those caused it. Maybe it's the brand... I have L-lysine by Health Leads UK. The powder is slightly grainy, maybe because it clumps a bit. I could try to get a different brand to see if it has the same effect. Strange stuff again. My list of things that I suspect to bring on the symptoms are now Lysine, vit C, niacinamide, aspirin, methylene blue, magnesium, and high carbs. It does mostly look like a list of things that's supposed to kill off Candida... Either that or I go back to another paranoia about poisoned / impure supplements.

 

[Interactome]

Though, again, it's difficult to say exactly. It's not very scientific (not that that approach is always a good thing) to change more than one variable at a time. Diet should also prove itself to not bring on symptoms for a while before introducing something new. And maybe I should get all my supply from a few sources that I know are trustworthy.

New things yesterday:
- extra stress
- ate a few buckwheat pancakes with some salsa
- 200 mg vit C
- 1 g lysine before bed

I've suspected vit C and Lysine before, so I'll look into what negative effects they could possibly have on my current state after I've learned more about my current state.

I now know that training will make me more thirsty. Perhaps just regular mental stress has a similar effect. The harder the more symptoms. Goat milk somehow helped, but now I'm avoiding it due to the sensitivity panel showing casein sensitivity. So it's either the minerals or the B vitamins in it. I don't have access to raw goat milk here, so there's no protection from the goats immune system against my stomach bugs and it's probiotics.

 

[BastiFuntasty]

Probably most would agree, you need to steer clear of that kind of environment and people. I know it's unfortunate that in this case its family, but I don't think anybody should be given a free pass to be abusive, even if it is family.
I am curious, would you say you get more protein from gelatin?
@Interactome I want to pose the same question to you about gelatin.

Yeah it's a hard struggle I'm dealing with, the thing is I love'em no matter how hard they harmed me with their authoriative behaviour.
When it comes to the gelatine, I think I consume around 40 g or more daily, since a very long time now.

 

[BastiFuntasty]

I don't think I have struggles with Candida, tongue etc seem normal, even my diluted veins got better. I think they were big due to too much b12 from milk in combination with training last year. I actually stopped all milk, since it gave me gas in last few moths, which I did not have last year, despite 3 liters of milk on some days
I don't eat that much liver anymore, maybe like 500g of cow's liver a month or so. More liver did not help me in the past.

What you say about your family absolutely reminds me of my situation. They also blame my diet and supps for my disease, and want to put me on doctors butchertable. It makes me pretty said and angry, not to be accepted for what I am and what I do.

I have no more tests done, somehow I have no more trust for all those tests or being a little afraid of it them turning out too bad, trying to find out what helps on my own. Doctors made a gen test from my blood which I will receive in maybe half a year ...

Cyprohaptadine would be a thing i'd like to test but there doesn't seem to be a chance to get it here.
Somehow nothing helps, even anti cortisol protocol with glycin from gelatine, theanine, adek + niacinamide and **** at 2g does not do anything.

Training and sport feels good for me, so I recently started to workout again. I just do very easy sets and nothing which leads to muscle failure, maybe will go a bit harder with legs when I feel I'm able too. For the moment I have to deal with a little body fat. I gained 15 pounds since summer due to very stressfull events.

Furthermore I now think that most of my pain comes from the mind. The only thing that elevates my pain is from thoughts and when I feel hurt from others around me. It feels as if it is coming from deep within me. Maybe some traumas of my past. I was the kind of person to be bullied in my youth, obese and very shy and quiet. Others gave me a very hard time and I was lost, hiding myself in virtual worlds, never being able to make experience with love. Just a handful of friends and my family was all I had. Than after loosing fat and gaining muscle, things got a little better for me, but wounds remained and I failed to fade them away.
Somehow I have to except who I am and dont think I'm ugly just because others let me know so in my past.

When I dont deel too much with my illness, I feel better. The pain does vanish completely sometimes. Maybe you feel better, too when you don't deel so much with it. The Candida is something you should look at, but the rest will maybe then be solved on its own when you don't worry too much.

Yeah a blog would be funny, but than once again we think too much about negative thoughts, which probalby is our biggest culprit, mine definetely.

 

[Interactome]

I don't know about the B12 and the veins. It's been mentioned before that B12 should help with too large veins by reducing NO. But it hasn't affected mine so far. Either it's possible for them to get "varicose" that fast or it's some sort of local adaptation to increased pressure given the physiological state I seem to fluctuate in and out of.

I don't have any tongue rash anymore. I do oil pulling in the morning, and I've done sulphur a few times. My nose was more runny for a day after the sulphur.

What you say about your family absolutely reminds me of my situation. They also blame my diet and supps for my disease, and want to put me on doctors butchertable. It makes me pretty said and angry, not to be accepted for what I am and what I do.

Yeah, I understand. They don't understand that we'd like to understand what effects things have on us and why. Not just mindlessly do what everybody else does and delegate our health to the pharmaceutical industry, especially when they repeatedly demonstrate that they just don't know and don't have the time to find out what's going on with us. So we have to assume responsibility for our own health when something goes wrong. Unless the docs have been through something similar themselves, they approach our complaints from a meta-plane and prescribe standard treatment: PPI's and Prozac :)

I think that the Organic Acid Test was good, but it would be even better if I could do it every week to see what's really going on. I don't know what to make of it yet, but I'm trying to address the Candida with Nystatin. If that is at the root of it, I don't know yet. But some other strange things showed up:

- slightly high arabinose => Candida overgrowth
- slightly high hippuric
- high glutaric : they suggest B2 supplementation and low Lysine - which is interesting because I feel worse if I take Lysine
- low ascorbic : I feel worse if I take ascorbate so... why?
- high succinic : they suggest B2
- high HVA/VMA ratio : they sugget more vit C and Cu, but I feel worse on both... maybe because then I produce more Adrenaline?
- high Uracil : they suggest B9 (but since FAD (B2 form) is important for 5-MTHF production, I'm thinking maybe it's B2 again?)
- low normal pyridoxic : I'm thinking aging B2 as it's required to convert PNP to PLP (= P5P) but I don't know...

Here are all results:

I'm taking a bit of R5P to see if anything changes. I tried adding 50mg P5P (active B6) for a few days, but it also seems to make my muscles more twitchy just like the Pyridoxine HCl. So I'll quit that again. Apparently B3 and B6 are not good for me for some reason.

I think the Organic Acid Test would be a good test to do. Then you'll know some of the things that aren't right. It might not be tha same as mine, as multiple problems can lead to similar symptoms.

 

[Interactome]

I think the P5P was a bad idea. I took 50mg two days in a row (100mg total). I have more muscle twitching and I'm beginning to feel as if my hands are getting warm. Must be B6 toxicity symptoms. I guess my problem was not with the conversion of inactive B6 to active B6.

 

[Interactome]

Looking at the metabolic pathways for B6 I see that the low-ish 'pyridoxic' could be due to low B2, as the enzyme that converts PLP to pyridoxic acid depends on FAD and Mo. So perhaps low B2 could inhibit not only B6 activation to PLP but also its degradation...

 

[Interactome]

Well, B2 doesn't seem to have any magical effect either other than making my urine very yellow. All I can think of is that something is draining all these vitamins out from me due to something that persists chronically, and the reason I feel worse when I supply some of them is that the stress response which drains me of those vitamins can then re-initiate. So, which is it:

- a persistent infection
- injury, e.g., in my kidneys from aspirin or the higher vit C I took for a few weeks
- constant stress response

I've read that heightened stress would cause adrenal hypertrophy and thymic involution. Is there a way to reverse those?

 

[BastiFuntasty]

Well, B2 doesn't seem to have any magical effect either other than making my urine very yellow. All I can think of is that something is draining all these vitamins out from me due to something that persists chronically, and the reason I feel worse when I supply some of them is that the stress response which drains me of those vitamins can then re-initiate. So, which is it:

- a persistent infection
- injury, e.g., in my kidneys from aspirin or the higher vit C I took for a few weeks
- constant stress response

I've read that heightened stress would cause adrenal hypertrophy and thymic involution. Is there a way to reverse those?

I was thinking the same with possible kidney damage and maybe adrenal hypertrophy. Creatine Kinase is something that has to be filtered out of the blood by the kidneys, so that it can leave the body via Urea, when I am right here. So when kidneys don't work preoperly as a resolution there must be more Kreatine kinase present in the blood. I don't know if that is right, but it could be possible. Only way to fix possible kidney dmg is by reducing that high CK levels, since they are a very big burden.
In my case they checked my adrenal glands with radiology and they said they are normal, hopefully they are right.

 

[Interactome]

I was thinking the same with possible kidney damage and maybe adrenal hypertrophy. Creatine Kinase is something that has to be filtered out of the blood by the kidneys, so that it can leave the body via Urea, when I am right here. So when kidneys don't work preoperly as a resolution there must be more Kreatine kinase present in the blood. I don't know if that is right, but it could be possible. Only way to fix possible kidney dmg is by reducing that high CK levels, since they are a very big burden.
In my case they checked my adrenal glands with radiology and they said they are normal, hopefully they are right.

CK is high when there is muscle damage, and that always happens to some extent after hard training. I don't know how damaged our kidneys are. But if they really were damaged then we should be able to see it on some blood tests. Would be nice with a list of all the things to look for apart from creatinine. But I would think that the reason why the muscles break open/die (do they die?) is because they cannot produce sufficient energy to deal with the stress they're subjected to. Question is then why can't they produce it? You eat enough calories (and I used to too, now I'm having more issues with the thirst), but something still prevents the muscles from having adequate energy to deal with the stressors.

- an imbalance in the nutrients / lack of a specific nutrient due to that it's used/lost faster than it is being supplied
- infection / dysbiosis and endotoxins that interfere with enzymes and metabolic pathways so that there's a functional vitamin/mineral deficiency
- a genetic predisposition to not thriving on the current diet (e.g. slow glycolytic enzymes, like in Glycogen Storage Disease Type 1-7)
- something that forces the system into a stress response so that this diet just doesn't work