Testosterone Optimization On RP-inspired Nutrition

[gaze]

300-1,000 mcg melatonin is fine.

nope not worth it IMO. They’re are better, more sustainable ways to get good quality sleep.

 

[baccheion]

nope not worth it IMO. They’re are better, more sustainable ways to get good quality sleep.

Like magnesium. And what else? Still, 300-1,000 mcg is fine. There was a study done showing 3 mg delayed/reversed menopause in women starting it early enough.

 

[corvetteseeker]

@Kammas

Thanks so much for the feedback. I’m with you in melatonin but yes I am very afraid of not getting any sleep. I’m pretty sure I had seen a study where melatonin supplements reduces sperm quality so that can’t be good.

I’m guessing you would say caffeine is a no go?

 

[gaze]

@Kammas

Thanks so much for the feedback. I’m with you in melatonin but yes I am very afraid of not getting any sleep. I’m pretty sure I had seen a study where melatonin supplements reduces sperm quality so that can’t be good.

I’m guessing you would say caffeine is a no go?

I Like a little coffee in the mornings with my meal but nothing crazy like the amount Ray eats. if it gives you a smooth relaxed energy if you eat it with breakfast, the. it’s completely fine. I don’t think it will effect your sleep. but if you have any sort of stress response from a blood sugar drop after you drink it then I would avoid it until your in a little better health.

 

[gaze]

Like magnesium. And what else? Still, 300-1,000 mcg is fine. There was a study done showing 3 mg delayed/reversed menopause in women starting it early enough.

Like focusing on fixing your health, lowering estrogen, raising T. Melatonin reduces progesterone, so i’m not sure what study your talking about. Ray really isn’t fond of it, and from what i’ve noticed when I take it is a real drowsy, seratonin type feel. makes me feel kind of dumb. A healthy organism shouldn’t need any supplement to fall asleep.

 

[corvetteseeker]

@Kammas

I don’t eat gelatin with every meal but I have quite a bit most days in homemade jello. About 4 tbsp/day.

Most of my beef is chuck roast or 85% ground beef. I do try to get grass finished but it’s not always doable.

The amounts of beef i eat are higher out of sheer necessity to keep my protein up without the ability to consume dairy or eggs. And fish is more expensive and arguably not as good.

I appreciate the cheese suggestion and am aware of the casein angle because I switched to cottage cheese and feta only for a while. But even this knocks me out with brain fog, frequent ruination and poor sleep so I am nervous to try again.

I desperately need to take advantage of some side hustle opportunities and unfortunately the main time to do this is at night which involves computer work and I know it’s not good for my sleep. I do wear blue blocker glasses and try to cut the blue light an hour for bed but I’m not always perfect.

I’ve tried to get up earlier to do work but I find it so difficult to maintain this long term.

 

[corvetteseeker]

300-1,000 mcg melatonin is fine.

DHEA lowers SHBG. Maybe magnesium as well.

I do take DHEA - I forgot to mention it. 25 mg pill before bed. I also take several hundred mg magnesium threonate. Maybe I need to supplement with calcium and k2 as some people are saying and figure out all the right ratios?

 

[corvetteseeker]

*frequent urination

 

[Hans]

Argh, I hate when people tell me "it's psychological" or "it's in your head" hint: no its not.

I used to feel that way as well for a long time until I realised that it was the major thing that was holding me back... limiting me from reaching goals physique and health wise, happiness etc. Eating the right foods and using a few supplements definitely helps and is very beneficial and all, but if one's mindset isn't right, the rest doesn't mean much at all. Only once I started changing my mindset did everything else start to change as well. And when your mindset is right, it's like eating the right foods and using supplements just has such a greater impact on one's health than it did before because now your "soil" is tilled and fertilized which will allow the seeds you plant to grow and yield fruit.
Tony (Anthony) Robbins talks a lot about this and he's doing great for his age and still looks youthful despite the stressful things he does and goes through.
Here's a short 15 min video of him talking a bit about it if you would like to check out.

 

[baccheion]

Like focusing on fixing your health, lowering estrogen, raising T. Melatonin reduces progesterone, so i’m not sure what study your talking about. Ray really isn’t fond of it, and from what i’ve noticed when I take it is a real drowsy, seratonin type feel. makes me feel kind of dumb. A healthy organism shouldn’t need any supplement to fall asleep.

Ray Peat said something about doses greater than 1 mg.

How to Stop Aging: Melatonin and the Pineal Gland

I do take DHEA - I forgot to mention it. 25 mg pill before bed. I also take several hundred mg magnesium threonate. Maybe I need to supplement with calcium and k2 as some people are saying and figure out all the right ratios?

More is needed to lower SHBG. Starts at 50 mg (25 mg 2x/day), but 100 mg is probably better. On the other hand, this forum is more about 5 mg topical doses (up to 3x/day along with 5 mg pregnenolone).

Someone younger (early 20s) would need even more to experience effects. Something like 200 mg.

DHEA can raise estrogens at higher amounts, but tends not to when body fat is 8-14% and thyroid function is sufficient.

What Hormones Does DHEA Change?

Higher SHBG doesn't matter if free testosterone is fine. Same with "free DHT".

The effect of six months treatment with a 100 mg daily dose of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) on circulating sex steroids, body composition and musc... - PubMed - NCBI

 

[nbznj]

Dhea seems to consistently prove that it doesn’t do jack for Androgens.

Plenty of very good supplements pack melatonin 1mg with magnesium and plants. I get great feedbacks.

 

[Cirion]

I used to feel that way as well for a long time until I realised that it was the major thing that was holding me back... limiting me from reaching goals physique and health wise, happiness etc. Eating the right foods and using a few supplements definitely helps and is very beneficial and all, but if one's mindset isn't right, the rest doesn't mean much at all. Only once I started changing my mindset did everything else start to change as well. And when your mindset is right, it's like eating the right foods and using supplements just has such a greater impact on one's health than it did before because now your "soil" is tilled and fertilized which will allow the seeds you plant to grow and yield fruit.
Tony (Anthony) Robbins talks a lot about this and he's doing great for his age and still looks youthful despite the stressful things he does and goes through.
Here's a short 15 min video of him talking a bit about it if you would like to check out.

I respect these viewpoints and there is some merit to it. However, I can't ignore my personal experiences back two years ago when I cured my metabolism and it was 100% solely through nutrition and environmental changes that improved my health. Having this as personal experience is why I have the belief system that I do.

I do absolutely think it's a good thing to do things like meditation, try your best to think positively, maybe start a journal, prayer etc and maybe they can help but personally I haven't found any of these to be the true catalyst like getting my diet and environment on point does for me.

 

[corvetteseeker]

@Hans - that's a pretty inspiring story. I'm pretty familar with Tony's message but if you don't
mind me asking, what exactly did your before and after mindset changes look like. And what has improved as a result?

@baccheion I've had 5 mg tablets for a long time so this is probably too much based on what all of you are saying.
The only time I ever seem to get naturally sleepy is when I have a large dinner including starch and saturated fat
and try to go to sleep within a couple of hours without anything bluelight or much excitement of any kind afterward.

It sure makes it hard with family life and trying to moonlight to live like this but I may not have a choice.

Regarding DHEA, just adding 25 mg has taken me all the way to the high end of the normal range so I sort of hesitate to increase it anymore if you know what I mean.

 

[Cirion]

Regarding DHEA, just adding 25 mg has taken me all the way to the high end of the normal range so I sort of hesitate to increase it anymore if you know what I mean.

Interesting. I tried DHEA in the past but didn't see much effect from it. Can't remember how much I was taking.

What kind of effects have you noticed from this? How long did it take to start seeing effects? Does it significantly boost temps/pulses/mood etc?

 

[corvetteseeker]

Cirion, I'm afraid I may have just arbitrarily increase the surrogate endpoint of the DHEA bloodwork itself because I haven't really noticed any overt benefits, per se.

I do think it helps me sleep a little better but it's a minimal effect.

 

[Mark21]

I'm not sure how significant "free test" is. From what i understand, testosterone bound to either shbg or albumin will become unbound at androgen receptor cites, and even convert to DHT in some cases before binding to the receptor. So serum levels of free T or DHT might not be that important. A normal to high range or either along with high T, in my estimation, would be good enough if SHBG and Albumin are really just being used as a protective sort of transport vehicle for the test.

 

[Kingpinguin]

Last year, I discovered my Testosterone levels were low for my age & physical shape (hovering between 300 and 420 ng/dL total T and chronically low free T).
At age 27, having a lean physique (12%- 14% bodyfat with some muscle), lifting weights for 2 years, I almost got to the poing of having very rare morning boners.
Past year, I've tried a lot of things to improve it naturally.

This year, I did the Carnivore Diet for 4 months (March - July 2019). Measured my T levels at the end of the diet.

• Total T: 440 ng/dL
• Free T: highest I've ever measured (since tracking it)

My morning erections came back on the diet, I went from 1-2 weak erections /s week to 4-5 / week, which was great .It was definitely the improved free working its magic.
Around the 3rd month on the diet, libido started to took a hit, other symptoms worsened and I eventually quit the diet.
I'm now in my first week of 'Peating'. Testosterone is still of utmost important to my health, along with improving my energy levels and escape anxiety and depression
Let me tell you, the morning erections are coming back and they're stronger than they've been on Carnivore.


I'm optimistic in seeing what effects will RP-inspired nutrition will have on my T levels.

• The saturated fat will surely benefit my free T. I'm guessing this is what happened on Carnivore, too
  
• The sugar will better support my thyroid function than the prolonged ketogenic state.

Interesting I’m in a similair situation. My T levels are alright and so is my health but I’m on a journey to get muscular/strong on a peat diet. Im getting pretty good results focusing on high protein and high intake of sweeter honey (higher fructose content), fruits and some starch like sweet potatoes. Im not very picky about fat intake though I keep PUFA low and trying to not go high on fat in general as I think protein an sugars will help you get lean and still keep cholesterol high enough to synthesis all steroids thats needed. So far results are very good. High protein intake helps pack on muscles and the high carb keeps stress hormones down perserving muscles and avoiding muscle breakdown. I would recommend this approach. The carnivore diet was likely good on some aspects but ultimately the glycogen, glucose, fructose deficiency and cortisol excess got the best of you. You could do carnivore but still incorperate lots of honey, fruit and other sugars to keep that stress away from crashing you. High fructose is extremly effective at inhibiting SHBG production thus you would get even higher free circulating Test levels. If you exercise be very cautious about not over exercising. Skip training legs they are just too big muscle and demands too much energy. And focus on rest is equally important. Magnesium supplement can also help you keep cortisol at bay. For testosterone production and muscle gains keeping cortisol low is key. Im waiting for my first idea labs order containing 6-keto progesterone, DHEA, Pregnenolone, metergoline and thyroid. Already have exemestane sourced from another place. Will be interesting to use these substances when needed during my up coming months workout regimen and track my results. Basically read good stuff about 6keto-p4 being very anti catabolic strong inhibitor of cortisol if you may formulate it that way. Then on top of that supplying dhea and pregnenolone and then as needed being able to inhibit estrogen synthesis with exemestane. And also being able to block prolactin and serotonin with metergoline and boosting thyroid. Think I’m really gonna have to up my carb intake.

 

[baccheion]

Did you check cortisol while carnivore to verify it was too high?

What about megadose (10 grams; sometimes 20) vitamin B5 mentioned in a study to prevent ketosis? B5 is said to increase fat metabolism efficiency and prevent fatigue from starting keto (similar somewhat to carnivore).

A Stone that Kills two Birds: How Pantothenic Acid Unveils the Mysteries of Acne Vulgaris and Obesity - Lit-Hung Leung. M.D.

 

[BigChad]

Biggest thing for testosterone is micronutrient deficiencies and glucose metabolism. the most common deficiencies that are linked to low T is vitamin D, zinc, magnesium, boron, choline. B1 for glucose metabolism. Avoiding endocrine disrupters so all shampoos soaps receipts bad food etc. , sleep, including red meat but not making it the prime energy source (carbs must be high), are all mandatory to get to 4 digit levels.

Receipts are endocrine disruptors? How?
Could you give some comments on specific foods to add for carbs besides honey, milk, chocolate, yogurt.
Which carb and fruit sources are acceptable. And if protein is at 220g, fats at 60g, how many carbs are needed? Is 150g carbs enough or does it need to be 200g or what

 

[BigChad]

Unsure. What about DHT? Low estradiol and/or high SHBG can result in lower libido. Same with low estradiol being associated with sleepiness and fatigue. SHBG has the highest affinity for DHT, then testosterone, then estrogen.

So that's ~142 grams protein to be 1g/lb LBM. And at least 71 grams fat.

Why does fat nee to be half of protein intake? Whats the right carb ratio and why