The Christ Within

[Perry Staltic]

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[TheSir]

The gospel that saves today says

Can the Gospel save us? Consider for a moment that everything we individually understand about the Gospel is created by our subjective thoughts and impressions. There is nothing truthful to our understanding of Truth, hence the inescapable need for grace. I'm thus interested in asking: do you think that if you just muster together the perfect construct of subjective thoughts, you will be redeemed? That if you just understand the Gospel the exact correct way, it will save you? I think we'd both agree that this would be a very gnostic approach.

As far as I know, there is no Gospel that saves -- there is only Gospel that points to the savior. Yet no matter how hard we try to study the Gospel and find him, we will fail. The savior will have to find us, and he will, so long as we simply ask. We don't need too know the how's and why's of our salvation -- our knowledge doesn't save us. Our knowledge can never be perfect enough to lead us to salvation. Both the simpletons like me and the highly learned like you depend on the same saving grace that is granted to us independently of whether or not we have read the correct Gospel. Is it not so?

 

[Perry Staltic]

There are many, many mistakes in translations (this included) from corrupt manuscripts and what you find trustworthy is obviously not of the Spirit of God, because the diety of Christ is diminished in the version you're using compared to the KJB. For instance it is Lucifer who falls from heaven in Isaiah 14:12 (KJB), but your corrupt translation says it's the Lord Jesus Christ (see Revelation 22:16 in the KJB and your translation). That's just one glaring mistake. To replace Lucifer with our Lord is a BIG mistake!

I think I see what you're saying. In Isaiah 14:12 the KJV says "Lucifer" and the LXX says "morning star", and because Revelation 22:16 calls Christ the morning star you think the LXX is calling Christ Lucifer. No, that's not the case. Lucifer is a transliteration of the Greek εωσφόρος, which means "ushering in the dawn." It is used in Isaiah 14:12 in the LXX. It is also used in 1 Samuel 30:17, Job 3:9, Job 11:17, Job 38:12, and Job 41:18 to refer to twilight, ie first appearance of Venus announcing dawn. However, it is not the same word that's used in Revelation 22:16, which is λαμπρός πρωϊνός which means "radiant dawn", but the KJV translators translated it as morning star. So it's not a mistake, you just have to look deeper than the surface.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

in which are some things hard to understand, which the unlearned and unsettled pervert, as also they do the rest of the scriptures, to their own destruction. 2 Peter 3:15-16

This is certainly true. And I'm sick of it. All these esoteric games.. It's all just pride of the more illuminated ones at this point in my eyes. Just create more problems in the world. More psychos believing in eternal hell, hating women and gays, slaughtering animals, mutilating genitals etc and basing it on metaphorical texts that are totally over their head. F it all as far as I'm concerned. Better to seek accurate scientific unified communication instead of confusing people more and more with poetry that they don't understand.

The days of mad poets are over. It has certainly been a part of the journey of humanity, but the age of reason is here. Science is the way to study God's laws, not poetry.

Ultimately the bible is a prison. At some point you have to learn to let go of it. It will just keep you running in endless circles otherwise. Do you wanna spend the rest of eternity reading the effin bible? Lame! Live your life.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

The Jesus you fundamentalists claim to worship told you to beware of the scribes and pharisees. But that means nothing to you. And Jesus would despise you worshiping him anyway, he'd want you to worship God.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

As I said, I'm sick of the esoteric poetic games, but you numbskulls should learn a little of that kinda lingo to stimulate that frozen brain of yours:

Jesus feeding the multitude with 2 fishes and 5 loaves of bread is about the yin & yang (☯ <- 2 fishes) and the five senses. It basically means this:

"Knowledge is life with wings." -William Blake

It's about the harmony of the spiritual and the earthly, aka the energetic and the material. About the harmony of potentiality and actuality, of taking in and of putting forth, of rest and of action.

Personal gnosis is vital. You can't just suck influences from outside sources without putting it into action and verifying stuff for yourself. And you can't just be absorbed in your own head without humbling yourself and listening to opposing viewpoints from others. Balance is key.

 

[EustaceBagge]

This is certainly true. And I'm sick of it. All these esoteric games.. It's all just pride of the more illuminated ones at this point in my eyes. Just create more problems in the world. More psychos believing in eternal hell, hating women and gays, slaughtering animals, mutilating genitals etc and basing it on metaphorical texts that are totally over their head. F it all as far as I'm concerned. Better to seek accurate scientific unified communication instead of confusing people more and more with poetry that they don't understand.

The days of mad poets are over. It has certainly been a part of the journey of humanity, but the age of reason is here. Science is the way to study God's laws, not poetry.

Ultimately the bible is a prison. At some point you have to learn to let go of it. It will just keep you running in endless circles otherwise. Do you wanna spend the rest of eternity reading the effin bible? Lame! Live your life.

Science is the way to study God's laws yet it fails us more than it shows us truth. How many lives did science claim through malpractice and corruption? How can a God or God's representative be corrupted, if it is the way to Him?

All those lives wasted on stuff like Oxycontin, heart attacks due to bad diets, the establishment of big pharma not only in medicine but also as a political institute, who allowed this? All those cigarette ads and holywood films depicting relationships in a bad way or setting unrealistic standards, was it Christianity?

Communism that claimed so many lives and is no different than modern day Pharaoh worship with a manmade god-ruler that claims to want to create an utopia, who rejected this more than religious people that only believe in God.

And here you are talking about a "biblical prison", yet nowadays to even work as a dishwasher you need to go through paperwork and sign contracts, every little stone that you touch has 3 manmade laws behind it, without connections you get nowhere and merit is not rewarded. Is this the Christian world your talking about? Where people sell their kids for money?

Show me the alternative and Ill consider your stance, but my observations lead me to this path of piety. Its always like that, are people like that because of what they believe in, or are they like that despite what they believe in. If I look at the Western world today, I choose the first.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

@EustaceBagge You seem to think science equals atheism. It does not. Anyone with any sense of logic understands there's a Creator.

So how do you refute authoritarian bad science? With better science or by hitting these scientists in the head with the bible, a book they laugh at?

And don't tell me these political and scientific institutions haven't been riddled with conservative fundamentalists throughout history.

And often unstable crazies who have a deep desire for freedom, have been traumatized by conservative fundamentalist parents, like Aleister Crowley. Then they spend the rest of their lives in desperate rebellion against these oppressive nuts. I even dare to say that most child raping confused pathetic scumbags have had conservative oppressive a-holes in their lives giving birth to this desire to seek freedom by committing the most heinous acts.

 

[EustaceBagge]

@EustaceBagge You seem to think science equals atheism. It does not. Anyone with any sense of logic understands there's a Creator.

So how do you refute authoritarian bad science? With better science or by hitting these scientists in the head with the bible, a book they laugh at?

And don't tell me these political and scientific institutions haven't been riddled with conservative fundamentalists throughout history.

And often unstable crazies who have a deep desire for freedom, have been traumatized by conservative fundamentalist parents, like Aleister Crowley. Then they spend the rest of their lives in desperate rebellion against these oppressive nuts. I even dare to say that most child raping confused pathetic scumbags have had conservative oppressive a-holes in their lives giving birth to this desire to seek freedom by committing the most heinous acts.

There is some weird projection going on here but interesting.

I'm just saying science is not a way of being, it is a way of knowing. The word science doesn't mean anything to me, especially after covid. When people put their trust into science it becomes something more than it should be, rightfully. Science is something you shouldn't trust, because when you do it loses its use.

Your response basically was about conservative fundamentalist parents blabla but Im just saying that doesnt explain 10% of what is happening in the world and has nothing to do with Christianity. You could replace X (Christianity) with Y and it would still hold true. Christianity is a way of being, unlike science, and is not as bad as you claim it to be. Compared to the unchristianized western world and the atrocities we saw these last 100 years like I stated in my previous post.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

There is some weird projection going on here but interesting.

I'm just saying science is not a way of being, it is a way of knowing. The word science doesn't mean anything to me, especially after covid. When people put their trust into science it becomes something more than it should be, rightfully. Science is something you shouldn't trust, because when you do it loses its use.

Your response basically was about conservative fundamentalist parents blabla but Im just saying that doesnt explain 10% of what is happening in the world and has nothing to do with Christianity. You could replace X (Christianity) with Y and it would still hold true. Christianity is a way of being, unlike science, and is not as bad as you claim it to be. Compared to the unchristianized western world and the atrocities we saw these last 100 years like I stated in my previous post.

The problem with science is the same as the problem with religion. People think there's some authority out there in the midst of all the confusion, lies and ignorance, and that you have to pick an authority that you put all your trust into blindly. People resonate with someone's ideas, or have tested someone's ideas and found that they enriched their lives and then make the source that they were inspired by into a golden calf, into an idol.

It's an easy trap to fall into as life is hard and people are lazy and afraid. Lumping yourself into an ideology, into a group provides a momentary sense of safety. When you're a bold curious passionate seeker, you're bound to create a lot of enemies who will crucify you rather than challenge their own views, do their own shadow work and put themselves out there in the world for weak-minded group NPC's to betray and mock.

What touched me about the whole Jesus thing, what I see as being the core of true Christianity, is the same as the core of true science. The principle of rejecting fear-based stagnant dogma, and instead living life balls to the wall with humility, curiosity and boldness. Like Blake said in Everlasting Gospel:

"Humble to God, haughty to man"

 

[damngoodcoffee]

"In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule."
-Friedrich Nietzsche

 

[damngoodcoffee]

The Christ within is the incorruptible, unbiased witness. One has to always have debate within before bringing it to the outer world. To allow new thoughts, new possibilities, new experiments to happen, and then let that faithful and true witness decide the right course of action for the future.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

"A thinker sees his own actions as experiments and questions--as attempts to find out something. Success and failure are for him answers above all."
-Friedrich Nietzsche

 

[Perry Staltic]

The Jesus you fundamentalists claim to worship told you to beware of the scribes and pharisees. But that means nothing to you. And Jesus would despise you worshiping him anyway, he'd want you to worship God.

Because they were hypocrites who taught people to follow the commandments of men rather than those of God.

 

[Perry Staltic]

The problem with science is the same as the problem with religion. People think there's some authority out there in the midst of all the confusion, lies and ignorance, and that you have to pick an authority that you put all your trust into blindly. People resonate with someone's ideas, or have tested someone's ideas and found that they enriched their lives and then make the source that they were inspired by into a golden calf, into an idol.

It's an easy trap to fall into as life is hard and people are lazy and afraid. Lumping yourself into an ideology, into a group provides a momentary sense of safety. When you're a bold curious passionate seeker, you're bound to create a lot of enemies who will crucify you rather than challenge their own views, do their own shadow work and put themselves out there in the world for weak-minded group NPC's to betray and mock.

What touched me about the whole Jesus thing, what I see as being the core of true Christianity, is the same as the core of true science. The principle of rejecting fear-based stagnant dogma, and instead living life balls to the wall with humility, curiosity and boldness. Like Blake said in Everlasting Gospel:

"Humble to God, haughty to man"

There's a lot of truth in what you say, and also a lot of error. The problem with your approach is that rebellion becomes the law and a way of life. We have to be amenable to and be persuaded by the truth in order to become one with it, but rebellion as a way of life, where each individual becomes their own law, precludes that. There is nothing in observable nature in which rebellion is a sustainable system; everything follows order, and every order has formulae. Ergo, there is nothing wrong with following the right formulae; in fact, it is essential, otherwise chaos and disorder result. Revealed truth has to be communicated some way, and those recorded ways become doctrine, ie, something to be preserved and taught to others and succeeding generations. There is no other way. Truth seekers will do as you say, ie examine everything and make up their own minds, but certain core truths (doctrines) have to be adhered to and followed, otherwise chaos results.

 

[EustaceBagge]

The problem with science is the same as the problem with religion. People think there's some authority out there in the midst of all the confusion, lies and ignorance, and that you have to pick an authority that you put all your trust into blindly. People resonate with someone's ideas, or have tested someone's ideas and found that they enriched their lives and then make the source that they were inspired by into a golden calf, into an idol.

It's an easy trap to fall into as life is hard and people are lazy and afraid. Lumping yourself into an ideology, into a group provides a momentary sense of safety. When you're a bold curious passionate seeker, you're bound to create a lot of enemies who will crucify you rather than challenge their own views, do their own shadow work and put themselves out there in the world for weak-minded group NPC's to betray and mock.

What touched me about the whole Jesus thing, what I see as being the core of true Christianity, is the same as the core of true science. The principle of rejecting fear-based stagnant dogma, and instead living life balls to the wall with humility, curiosity and boldness. Like Blake said in Everlasting Gospel:

"Humble to God, haughty to man"

There is authority and always will be. The momeny God is not your authority it is the state. Your no different than all the pharaoh worshippers, mao worshippers, stalin worshippers etc. of the past.

Authority doesnt necessarily rest with what is the truth, but what men wants to see as the truth. That is society. Hence, as long as you live in a society your practically a hypocrite.

And when that society decides that God is the truth then that is where authority will lie. So the moment you stop believing in God you dont become more free or anything, you just change the situation. The way to freedom is unity. Man's will will always prevail, and they will always get the ruler they deserve. If your not part of the majority your ****88, no matter how many policies are put in place. Its just the way it is.

 

[ThazMYchocolate]

The Jesus you fundamentalists claim to worship told you to beware of the scribes and pharisees. But that means nothing to you. And Jesus would despise you worshiping him anyway, he'd want you to worship God.

John 8:56-59
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

In this passage Jesus refers to himself with the name God gave himself in Exodus to Moses, therefore calling himself God. This is reinforced by the Jews trying to immediately stone him. In their minds Jesus was blaspheming in a most extreme manner by calling himself God and by their rules this deserved death by stoning.


Exodus 3:13-14
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations

Also, Jesus said "He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, "Show us the Father'?" John 14:9

 

[damngoodcoffee]

Because they were hypocrites who taught people to follow the commandments of men rather than those of God.

Yes, like you're doing you blind fool.

So you think it's impossible for men to get false revelation about the laws of God? Someone claims they have the laws of God and you believe it just based on the popularity of the authority that claims this? Repent hypocrite.

There's a lot of truth in what you say, and also a lot of error. The problem with your approach is that rebellion becomes the law and a way of life. We have to be amenable to and be persuaded by the truth in order to become one with it, but rebellion as a way of life, where each individual becomes their own law, precludes that. There is nothing in observable nature in which rebellion is a sustainable system; everything follows order, and every order has formulae. Ergo, there is nothing wrong with following the right formulae; in fact, it is essential, otherwise chaos and disorder result. Revealed truth has to be communicated some way, and those recorded ways become doctrine, ie, something to be preserved and taught to others and succeeding generations. There is no other way. Truth seekers will do as you say, ie examine everything and make up their own minds, but certain core truths (doctrines) have to be adhered to and followed, otherwise chaos results.

I agree with your point here totally. I don't know why you think I don't. Rebellion has it's place though. When people rebel against objective truths, they are rebelling against God and it is my duty to rebel against these people. It's impossible to determine objective truth without chaos and arguing being involved in the process though. But in the end, the truth will stand.

You think recorded doctrine is perfect straight away if someone writes it down. You don't think human pride, impatience, greed etc can corrupt this recorded doctrine.
I think it needs to be updated as our understanding evolves.

I think life is a process.

Your perfectionism is pathological. You want to escape the fact that we make mistakes and that we need to repent and redeem ourselves.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

The momeny God is not your authority it is the state. Your no different than all the pharaoh worshippers, mao worshippers, stalin worshippers etc. of the past.

Wow. That's rich. You have no idea who you're talking to.... This triggers me a bit. Wow.

 

[Perry Staltic]

You think recorded doctrine is perfect straight away if someone writes it down. You don't think human pride, impatience, greed etc can corrupt this recorded doctrine.
I think it needs to be updated as our understanding evolves.

Those who are of God and taught of God know whether what people write and say is of God or of themselves because they have the witness of the source in their hearts. The understanding of God's way evolves, but never in ways that are contrary to original revelation; it builds upon, it doesn't build over. Scholars can and do separate the wheat from the chaff, ie, corruptions to the original recorded revelation.