The Copper Detoxification Log

[youngsinatra]

Hello everyone,

I already have another thread on the forum („The Abundant Energy Legacy“), but I want to open up a new thread just regarding my copper detoxification experience. I think the topic deserves much more attention and awareness.

So to begin with..
A few months ago I developed severe histapenia (low histamine) symptoms, caused by a high copper diet. (lots of daily beef liver, mushrooms, potatoes, whole food vitamin C)

The symptoms of histapenia or copper toxicity include:
- Anxiety / Panic Disorder
- Emotional Numbness
- Phases Of Mania / Energy Pulses
- Low Libido
- Hard Time Reaching Orgasm (If At All)
- Low Metabolism / Thyroid
- Intolerance Of Cold
- Cold Hands And Feet
- Inability To Handle Stress
- Irritability
- Excessive Anger
- Low Motivation
- Low Achiever
- High Creativity
- Oftentimes Really Religious
- Hallucinations / Distortion of Perception
- Psychosis
- Schizophrenia
- Canker Sores
- Heavy Growth Of Body Hair
- Ideas Of Grandeur
- Undue Suspicions Of People Or Government
- Racing Thoughts
- Feeling That Someone Is Controlling Your Mind
- Ringing In Ears Or Tinnitus
- Dizziness / Vertigo / Free Floating Anxiety
- Many Food Sensitivities
- Lack Of Allergies
- Low Stomach Acid
- Digestive Issues
- Lack Of Concentration (ADHD)
- Wired But Tired
- Insomnia / Sleep Disturbance
- Restless Legs
- Intolerance Of SSRIs, Anti-Histamines, Estrogen Therapy
- Improvements On Benzodiazepines
- Improvements On High Dose Niacin Treatment

So quite a list. And I had nearly all symptoms + being on edge of developing psychosis.

Blood Tests To Evaluate:
- Whole Blood Histamine
- Basophils
- Serum Copper
- Serum Ceruloplasmin

It‘s typical to see low histamine (below 40ng/ml) with low basophils, elevated/normal serum copper, normal ceruloplasmin.
But many experts on CT say that copper can even appear low on a blood test but is high in the stored tissues. So symptoms and possible HTMA can further help with diagnosis.
Copper toxicity also sometimes leads to low ceruloplasmin.

Treatment:
I stopped the high copper diet and immediately got on a high zinc diet (lots of lean beef) with with white rice / peeled potatoes / some orange juice / salt.
I aimed for a total zinc intake of 100mg a day. 50mg through diet and 50mg via supplementation.
I also included 500mcg of molybdenum in the morning and in the evenings for excretion of copper.
To improve the symptoms quickly I started on high dose niacin(amide) with 3 x 1 - 1.5g a day. This will help raising histamines and quenching excess methylation by high copper.
Vitamin C should be supplied via diet or even potentially by supplementation as copper destroys vitamin C on contact. This can lead to adrenal fatigue or burnout because it‘s the main storage side for vitamin C.
Vitamin C can also lower histamines though, so experimentation is needed in my opinion.
P5P-B6 can help with the utilization of zinc.

For more informations:

Check out the work of Dr. Carl Pfeiffer, Dr. Abram Hoffer, Dr. Rick Malter PhD, Rick Fischer, Ann Louise Gittleman, Dr. Mensah.

 

[youngsinatra]

See attachment.

 

[Mauritio]

See attachment.

I've been there too. I was convinced I had pyroluria . Took high doses of zinc and b6 for a year . I developed a varicose vein during that time , at the age of 21.
Not saying you shouldn't do it. But be careful .

 

[youngsinatra]

I've been there too. I was convinced I had pyroluria . Took high doses of zinc and b6 for a year . I developed a varicose vein during that time , at the age of 21.
Not saying you shouldn't do it. But be careful .

What doses did you take and which forms of zinc and B6?
I‘ve only read little material on the topic of pyroluria.

 

[Ben.]

Very interesting. I have many of thoose symptoms aswell.

My copper is chronically low tho for 2 years now which was realy realy wierd since my diet even before peat was quite sufficient/rich in it.
High doses Vitamin C ( 8-14g a day) has been serving me well the past weeks.

On the other hand i feel copper as a supplement has a good effect on my hair and oral health.

 

[youngsinatra]

Very interesting. I have many of thoose symptoms aswell.

My copper is chronically low tho for 2 years now which was realy realy wierd since my diet even before peat was quite sufficient/rich in it.
High doses Vitamin C ( 8-14g a day) has been serving me well the past weeks.

On the other hand i feel copper as a supplement has a good effect on my hair and oral health.

Interesting! Do you split the vitamin C doses?
Do you take „pure“ ascorbic acid or a specific formula?

I forgot to mention, but histapenia causes low saliva and thus poor oral health, potential more tooth decay.

 

[Mauritio]

What doses did you take and which forms of zinc and B6?
I‘ve only read little material on the topic of pyroluria.

Oh boy high doses . For long period of time ,I think I went up to almost 100mg of zinc per day.
B6 maybe 30mg P5P . I think I made myself deficient in other b vitamins (especially b2)

I found that I actually need copper .
I had good results with mitosynergy. But it's expensive.

 

[Mauritio]

On the other hand i feel copper as a supplement has a good effect on my hair and oral health.

Same . I noticed the hair effect too. I'm not sure why,but I guess it has to do with it's anti-microbial effects .

 

[youngsinatra]

Oh boy high doses . For long period of time ,I think I went up to almost 100mg of zinc per day.
B6 maybe 30mg P5P . I think I made myself deficient in other b vitamins (especially b2)

I found that I actually need copper .
I had good results with mitosynergy. But it's expensive.

Yes, treatment should carefully be evaluated over time, and should be not continued forever.
I think that Pfeiffer said that with efficient detoxification with zinc, molybdenum, manganese, vitamin C and B3 the doses can reduced after 3-6 months or so. Oftentimes then the B3 or zinc is not required anymore.

 

[Mauritio]

Yes, treatment should carefully be evaluated over time, and should be not continued forever.
I think that Pfeiffer said that with efficient detoxification with zinc, molybdenum, manganese, vitamin C and B3 the doses can reduced after 3-6 months or so. Oftentimes then the B3 or zinc is not required anymore.

Maybe treatment should be carefully evaluated before even starting...?

 

[youngsinatra]

Maybe treatment should be carefully evaluated before even starting...?

Of course, yes!

Blood work, symptoms, potentially HTMA. (even tho I am not a fan of these)

 

[Ben.]

Interesting! Do you split the vitamin C doses?
Do you take „pure“ ascorbic acid or a specific formula?

I forgot to mention, but histapenia causes low saliva and thus poor oral health, potential more tooth decay.

It's the sunday natural brand. Thats ascorbic acid from fermentation. ALtough i was thinking of switching to another form/brand perhaps. Can't recommend the bioflavonoid version ... has a 95% chance to induce sneezing and runny nose 30 mins after ingestion for me. Not so much the "pure" version.
3-4g three to four times a day (i am not 100% consistent - haven't tried reaching bowel tolerance yet ... altough for science i'd like to)

I noticed increased wound healing on my fingers from the vitamin c. It didn't help with my bleeding/inflammed gums tho ... much to my dissapointment.

Same . I noticed the hair effect too. I'm not sure why,but I guess it has to do with it's anti-microbial effects .

Im quite positive it is the anti-microbial effect. Switched from a plastic tongue scraper to a copper one aswell. Makes a big difference aswell. Altough i think zinc has anti-microbial properties too... Guess the question always lies in what "bug" is causing issues and what substance can help in the individual.

I also always wonder, wether one is deficient or oversaturated in tissue ... why is the issue there in the first place. Perhaps another thing/mechanism causing these dysbalances ...

Maybe treatment should be carefully evaluated before even starting...?

 

[youngsinatra]

Effects of copper toxicity

Neurotransmission:
- High Serotonin / Dopamine / Norepinephrine (Anxiety, Numbness, Paranoia, Psychotic)
- Low Histamines and GABA

Minerals:
- Increased Sodium / Calcium (Increased Blood Pressure / Tweaking The Thyroid Ratio Leading To Insensitivity To Thyroid Hormone)
- Decreased Magnesium / Potassium (More Stress / Hypoglycemic Tendency)
- Decreased Zinc / B6 (Low Stomach Acid / Neurotransmitters Dysfunction)

Adrenals:
- Stimulating At First
- Vitamin C depletion
- Burnout In The Long-Term

 

[youngsinatra]

Mineral Mastery YouTube Channel
CopperToxic.com Instagram Page

 

[InChristAlone]

Where did the copper come from in your case? You said high copper diet. Was it the liver? I just realized copper toxicity in the soil from copper fungicides is a huge problem in citrus groves. Which means orange juice has more copper than probably listed in cronometer.

 

[youngsinatra]

Where did the copper come from in your case? You said high copper diet. Was it the liver? I just realized copper toxicity in the soil from copper fungicides is a huge problem in citrus groves. Which means orange juice has more copper than probably listed in cronometer.

Grass-fed beef liver causes the most dramatic worsening in symptoms. I cannot tolerate it at all anymore.
During my „Root Cause Protocol“ phase I ate between 1-3 oz. of local grass-fed beef liver every day + well-cooked mushrooms + potatoes + whole food vitamin C supplement.
At first it felt amazing, but I needed to stop the protocol after a few months because of copper excess / low histamine symptoms.

 

[Quelsatron]

Hmm, interesting that you would post this, I remember posting alongside you in spring about things like liver/vitamin A consumption. I just so happened to become more and more intolerant towards liver, or at least it became more and more clear that liver consumption was very bad for me. I've been fatigued for almost 2 years now, with ups and downs and lately most ups as I've been avoiding liver wholesale (ate just a little bit of liver paté and it made me feel very off and then I got a cold, like when I started avoiding it).
The interesting part is, my mom has a cat, and I'm usually allergic, and the anti-histamine pills me and my sister have been using for years when visiting made me extremely fatigued during all of this, more so than my baseline. Could it be that I'm copper toxic and need increased histamine and zinc to return to my extremely high libido, high energy, powerful imagination former self? Then the question is, how do you increase histamine in the least supplement-heavy and "normal" way possible?
Right now my one supplement is zinc and vitamin C pills. I happened to instead of the normal pills use vitamin C as a superior anti-allergy when visiting my mom, so could my current supplement (25 mg zinc, 200 mg vit C) be surpressing my histamine levels? I have an increase in libido but it's still pretty low.

sorry for the rambling post, lol

 

[youngsinatra]

Hmm, interesting that you would post this, I remember posting alongside you in spring about things like liver/vitamin A consumption. I just so happened to become more and more intolerant towards liver, or at least it became more and more clear that liver consumption was very bad for me. I've been fatigued for almost 2 years now, with ups and downs and lately most ups as I've been avoiding liver wholesale (ate just a little bit of liver paté and it made me feel very off and then I got a cold, like when I started avoiding it).
The interesting part is, my mom has a cat, and I'm usually allergic, and the anti-histamine pills me and my sister have been using for years when visiting made me extremely fatigued during all of this, more so than my baseline. Could it be that I'm copper toxic and need increased histamine and zinc to return to my extremely high libido, high energy, powerful imagination former self? Then the question is, how do you increase histamine in the least supplement-heavy and "normal" way possible?
Right now my one supplement is zinc and vitamin C pills. I happened to instead of the normal pills use vitamin C as a superior anti-allergy when visiting my mom, so could my current supplement (25 mg zinc, 200 mg vit C) be surpressing my histamine levels? I have an increase in libido but it's still pretty low.

sorry for the rambling post, lol

I think L-histidine could be worth experimenting with for increasing histamines, but I haven‘t tried it myself. I‘ve heard that zinc supplementation is necessary with L-histidine, because it can chelate certain minerals.
I am still unsure about vitamin C for histapenia. To me it seems like it‘s still a net anti-histamine.

I think a zinc-rich diet (red-meat centered) with avoidance of high copper foods like liver, shellfish, chocolate and mushrooms is the more gentle approach. For excretion of copper I think molybdenum supplementation is potentially valuable. Zinc is more important for chelating copper that in the GI tract, while it is not really active by excreting copper from the liver and other storage places. I saw some animal studies that showed that zinc supplementation did not alter liver copper status, when copper intake went to low amounts again. (they started on excessive copper amounts to induce copper toxicity)
Molybdenum seems to directly lower copper in the liver and improves excretion of it in the urine and stool. I might think that (insoluble) fiber during the day or some activated charcoal before bed might help with binding excreted copper in the stool and avoiding re-absorbtion.

 

[Quelsatron]

I think L-histidine could be worth experimenting with for increasing histamines, but I haven‘t tried it myself. I‘ve heard that zinc supplementation is necessary with L-histidine, because it can chelate certain minerals.
I am still unsure about vitamin C for histapenia. To me it seems like it‘s still a net anti-histamine.

I think a zinc-rich diet (red-meat centered) with avoidance of high copper foods like liver, shellfish, chocolate and mushrooms is the more gentle approach. For excretion of copper I think molybdenum supplementation is potentially valuable. Zinc is more important for chelating copper that in the GI tract, while it is not really active by excreting copper from the liver and other storage places. I saw some animal studies that showed that zinc supplementation did not alter liver copper status, when copper intake went to low amounts again. (they started on excessive copper amounts to induce copper toxicity)
Molybdenum seems to directly lower copper in the liver and improves excretion of it in the urine and stool. I might think that (insoluble) fiber during the day or some activated charcoal before bed might help with binding excreted copper in the stool and avoiding re-absorbtion.

I guess I'll just learn 100 ways to cook beef, keep up the zinc supplements and try to avoid high copper foods. i'm not sure I have a copper overload though, I think my ceruloplasmin was normal in a test i took either july or february. I'm not very enthusiastic about taking any supplements more unorthodox than zinc, so no thanks to the molybdenum and pure histidine. I might chase some high histidine foods though, beef seems to be pretty high, and burgers, tacos, chili, bolognaese, meatballs, etc used to be some of my most-cooked foods when I was living life, because ground beef was cheap, tasty and high protein, lol.

I wonder if I should exchange my zinC-vitamin for a pure zinc though, I guess it might be worth it, even though I just bought this bottle

Oh yeah, I remember we also posted some about the visual clarity given with vitamin A supplements, which only happened to me once, but liver sure worsened my visual clarity, maybe through coppers effects rather than vitamin A. I read about high histamine causing visual clarity, did you notice any improvement in the aesthetic quality of your vision?

 

[youngsinatra]

I guess I'll just learn 100 ways to cook beef, keep up the zinc supplements and try to avoid high copper foods. i'm not sure I have a copper overload though, I think my ceruloplasmin was normal in a test i took either july or february. I'm not very enthusiastic about taking any supplements more unorthodox than zinc, so no thanks to the molybdenum and pure histidine. I might chase some high histidine foods though, beef seems to be pretty high, and burgers, tacos, chili, bolognaese, meatballs, etc used to be some of my most-cooked foods when I was living life, because ground beef was cheap, tasty and high protein, lol.

I wonder if I should exchange my zinC-vitamin for a pure zinc though, I guess it might be worth it, even though I just bought this bottle

Oh yeah, I remember we also posted some about the visual clarity given with vitamin A supplements, which only happened to me once, but liver sure worsened my visual clarity, maybe through coppers effects rather than vitamin A. I read about high histamine causing visual clarity, did you notice any improvement in the aesthetic quality of your vision?

Yes that seems like a good idea! Lately I‘ve had periods of high visual acuity and clarity.

I personally will try a few days without zinc, because my dietary intake is 50mg roughly and only have like 3mg dietary copper, which should be fine. I think B3 as niacinamide is cool for opposing the effects of copper. (acting as a methyl sink)