The Promiscuous, Career Focused Single Woman -- An Exaggerated Scapegoat?

[Peatness]

Here we go again smh. If you think that the modern woman today is marriage material, then either you're sleeping under a rock or you're gonna give me the phone number to your dealer because its apparent you're smoking that good ***t and i want some too.
For real now, you call us cynical and arrogant just because we want a wife thats virgin and that can take care of the house? Thats the exact same lines the cunts who protested for sexual revolution also said. Tell me, how many women in the west are virgins today compared to 100+ years ago? If you think that women today aren't promiscuous like hell at their youth, then you need a reality check my friend.

And before you call me MGTOW and all that crap, I ain't an Incel, i think that movement is closed off of society in a bad way, but they arent lying when it comes to the state of the world today.

Men want to have lots of sex but want women to be virgins - the solution? Become gay. No women wants a vulgar man

 

[GreekDemiGod]

I’d imagine that most women on Ray Peat Forum are trad-leaning/ conservative. That’s why you believe what you believe. On average, promiscuity has becomes the norm.
5 out of 10 women I could find on Tinder have a high lay count by the time they’re 25. They have very high standards and remain single well into their late 20s, all while being sexually active and having one night stands or friends with benefits, sleeping with handsome men.
No woman in her 20s stays celibate/ sexless for more than 3 months, unless she has a very low libido or is on SSRIs. So even if she is "single", you best believe she is getting the D on the regular, or at least once every few months.

And I agree that having a “sweet personality” is desired, but biology still runs its course. On average, a woman at 24 VS the same woman at 32 is going to be more physically attractive.
Taking care of her body, being physically active, not drinking or smoking are highly attractive traits in a woman, at least from my point of view. Because I know those habits will make her age more gracefully.
If you're a man looking for a relationship girl, you need to screen for these traits to have better chances of finding her. Finding a virgin will be next to impossible, finding one with a low lay count will be more likely.
My girlfriend is 24, I'm 30. She has been well raised by her parents, very rarely went to clubs or partying/ drinking, doesn’t care much about social media and external validation.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Younger generations are having less sex, not more. This trend is accelerating

They are definitely not. This argument has been thoroughly analyzed and explained in the Red Pill communities.
Average males and less than average males(less physically attractive) are indeed getting much less. That's because the attractive men are getting all the women.
The average woman will stay single and not date the average man, all while hooking up with the handsome men for one night stands.

 

[TheCedar1]

Men want to have lots of sex but want women to be virgins - the solution? Become gay. No women wants a vulgar man

I'm virgin LMAO, Islam forbids sex before marriage, that's the sin of zina and could get you stoned for both men and women, or if you live outside Saudi Arabia and Iran, you'll just get shunned by every muslim in the vicinity, basically you're forced to be Isolated from society, that's how shameful zina is.
Also, when you call the truth "vulgar" then you know you got no other arguments. @GreekDemiGod literally refuted the OP's bs argument that promiscuity is uncommon, what else needs to be said?

 

[Nomane Euger]

I'm virgin LMAO, Islam forbids sex before marriage, that's the sin of zina and could get you stoned for both men and women, or if you live outside Saudi Arabia and Iran, you'll just get shunned by every muslim in the vicinity, basically you're forced to be Isolated from society, that's how shameful zina is.
Also, when you call the truth "vulgar" then you know you got no other arguments. @GreekDemiGod literally refuted the OP's bs argument that promiscuity is uncommon, what else needs to be said?

Does it bother you that the cult you believe to be the message of "god" is stoning people in some countries according to you? Do you think people who have sex before marriage should be stoned? Why do you want to you a virgin woman, what will it bring you

 

[TheCedar1]

Does it bother you that the cult you believe to be the message of "god" is stoning people in some countries according to you?

Does it bother you that your degenerate society is actively promoting sexual promiscuity to young people and degenerating their brain with wokeism that could destroy a young persons life forever? ******* hypocrites like you, acting like you are so against wokeism, yet you bash the group that could save your society and it's people from it's degeneracy.

Do you think people who have sex before marriage should be stoned?

If they've done it multiple times with multiple partners, then yeah, they should be stoned. If they've done it once, then maybe lashing them would be appropriate, as to teach them no to do this disgusting act. If we let them continue like this, the entire muslim world will just be another extension of European wokeism, we have witnessed what wokeism has done to the U.S and Europe, we will make sure it stays there and not spread further into the MENA region, or if you Europeans want, embrace Islam and save your dying society from this curse. It doesn't phase you that many more Europeans are admitting that Islam is the only religion that can save them from this, or the fact that more and more Europeans are turning to Islam? Why? Because the soul of Christianity died and is only a mere shadow of it's once powerful self. Wake up.

Why do you want to you a virgin woman, what will it bring you

Because the more sexual partners a woman has, the more likely she'll cheat on you and the higher the risk of divorce, I am not looking to get divorced by a promiscuous woman.
(Counterintuitive Trends in the Link Between Premarital Sex and Marital Stability)

 

[Nomane Euger]

Does it bother you that your degenerate society is actively promoting sexual promiscuity to young people and degenerating their brain with wokeism that could destroy a young persons life forever? ******* hypocrites like you, acting like you are so against wokeism, yet you bash the group that could save your society and it's people from it's degeneracy.

you did not answer my question.Sex outside of ritual marriage is not inherently bad. Marriage is a ritual practice that has no value in itself, it is not what will maintain a high degree of love and desire. between the two people, on the contrary, for many people I know it's an imprisonment in a relationship that reaches a stage where the two people no longer appreciate each other enough, possibly despise each other yet stay together due to the potential consequences of the rupture that both perceive, the gaze of others, and some not very pleasant feelings mixed with unpleasant feelings.i do not know what "wokeism"mean.

Islam is one of many cults that cultivates feelings of fear, submission to authority, helplessness, shame, guilt for most people who practice it, so no, Islam cannot "save" the society, most of the "Muslims" peoples i know are not happyer and do not have a more positive impact on others than non muslim peoples.

it may be a religious affliction less worse than some other cults, it is still the manifestation of a sub-optimal biological state of the person who practices it, and these consequences are mostly bad, even if I do not exclude the possibility that Islam could be a lesser evil relative to others cults or ideologies.

If they've done it multiple times with multiple partners, then yeah, they should be stoned. If they've done it once, then maybe lashing them would be appropriate, as to teach them no to do this disgusting act. If we let them continue like this, the entire muslim world will just be another extension of European wokeism, we have witnessed what wokeism has done to the U.S and Europe, we will make sure it stays there and not spread further into the MENA region, or if you Europeans want, embrace Islam and save your dying society from this curse. It doesn't phase you that many more Europeans are admitting that Islam is the only religion that can save them from this, or the fact that more and more Europeans are turning to Islam? Why? Because the soul of Christianity died and is only a mere shadow of it's once powerful self. Wake up.

why should they be stoned according to you if they have done it multiple times with multiple partners?why is that disgusting?

sex outside of marriage is such a "sin" and negative for humans according to islam, whereas if you are a "high value" man according to islam in heaven you will be rewarded with a myriad of virgin hybrid creatures worthy of fantasies such as the lord of the rings, with which you can have sex at your will,logical

you make a claim,i go counter claim,islam is pure enslavement,some of the things they preach might be valuables,some of the things they preach are awfull for human beings. the fact that more europeans are turning to islam is simply the manifestation of a few phenomenons:

people's propensity to submit to an authority that they perceive as powerful and/or that they fear, because they are in a suboptimal state, the majority of the people i know just need a higher degree of energy to exempt themselves from these abstract "religious" ideas which parasitize them,Christianity has lost some of its "sacredness" in the perception of the majority of people I know, while the majority of people I know perceive Islam as having a higher degree of "respect", of "sacredness", and sparking more awe and submission than other religions.

the majority of people I know also tend to embrace ideas that correspond to their emotions, tendencies, so if the person is a rigid-minded person, who often engages in rituals even in his daily life, prey to fear and submission, which feels guilt and shame, which is governed to too high a degree by the perception of others, it is very likely that this person will begin to practice a religion that corresponds more to his condition, in this case, islam

Because the more sexual partners a woman has, the more likely she'll cheat on you and the higher the risk of divorce, I am not looking to get divorced by a promiscuous woman.
(Counterintuitive Trends in the Link Between Premarital Sex and Marital Stability)

why do you consider that this "study" is concrete? do you consider that everything claimed in "studies" is intrinsically true?

if you are not a troll and you legitimately think what you claim,you need some milk and/or ripe fruits only diet for a few hours/days,it will free you from those ridiculous ideas that are bad for you and for the world,you will come back to us with more love

 

[BRBsavinWorld]

@TheCedar1 so, do you even live in a western city?

 

[ursidae]

I’d imagine that most women on Ray Peat Forum are trad-leaning/ conservative. That’s why you believe what you believe. On average, promiscuity has becomes the norm.
5 out of 10 women I could find on Tinder have a high lay count by the time they’re 25. They have very high standards and remain single well into their late 20s, all while being sexually active and having one night stands or friends with benefits, sleeping with handsome men.
No woman in her 20s stays celibate/ sexless for more than 3 months, unless she has a very low libido or is on SSRIs. So even if she is "single", you best believe she is getting the D on the regular, or at least once every few months.

And I agree that having a “sweet personality” is desired, but biology still runs its course. On average, a woman at 24 VS the same woman at 32 is going to be more physically attractive.
Taking care of her body, being physically active, not drinking or smoking are highly attractive traits in a woman, at least from my point of view. Because I know those habits will make her age more gracefully.
If you're a man looking for a relationship girl, you need to screen for these traits to have better chances of finding her. Finding a virgin will be next to impossible, finding one with a low lay count will be more likely.
My girlfriend is 24, I'm 30. She has been well raised by her parents, very rarely went to clubs or partying/ drinking, doesn’t care much about social media and external validation.

you're a hypocrite who actively engages in and benefits from the hookup culture while complaining about degeneracy and judging your female counterparts who are your mirrors. It is baffling

 

[animalcule]

Seems like it. I should have looked at his location. Another "the truth hurts" type ... who also adheres the one of the most backwards and violent religions in the world, that he believes "could save your society and its people from degeneracy" -- but only by bringing back brutal stoning and barbarism, which is how Islam protects against "degeneracy." Astounding cognitive dissonance.

 

[animalcule]

you did not answer my question.Sex outside of ritual marriage is not inherently bad. Marriage is a ritual practice that has no value in itself, it is not what will maintain a high degree of love and desire. between the two people, on the contrary, for many people I know it's an imprisonment in a relationship that reaches a stage where the two people no longer appreciate each other enough, possibly despise each other yet stay together due to the potential consequences of the rupture that both perceive, the gaze of others, and some not very pleasant feelings mixed with unpleasant feelings.i do not know what "wokeism"mean.

Islam is one of many cults that cultivates feelings of fear, submission to authority, helplessness, shame, guilt for most people who practice it, so no, Islam cannot "save" the society, most of the "Muslims" peoples i know are not happyer and do not have a more positive impact on others than non muslim peoples.

it may be a religious affliction less worse than some other cults, it is still the manifestation of a sub-optimal biological state of the person who practices it, and these consequences are mostly bad, even if I do not exclude the possibility that Islam could be a lesser evil relative to others cults or ideologies.


why should they be stoned according to you if they have done it multiple times with multiple partners?why is that disgusting?you make a claim,i go counter claim,islam is pure enslavement,some of the things they preach might be valuables,some of the things they preach are awfull for human beings. the fact that more europeans are turning to islam is simply the manifestation of a few phenomenons:

people's propensity to submit to an authority that they perceive as powerful and/or that they fear, because they are in a suboptimal state, the majority of the people i know just need a higher degree of energy to exempt themselves from these abstract "religious" ideas which parasitize them,Christianity has lost some of its "sacredness" in the perception of the majority of people I know, while the majority of people I know perceive Islam as having a higher degree of "respect", of "sacredness", and sparking more awe and submission than other religions.

the majority of people I know also tend to embrace ideas that correspond to their emotions, tendencies, so if the person is a rigid-minded person, who often engages in rituals even in his daily life, prey to fear and submission, which feels guilt and shame, which is governed to too high a degree by the perception of others, it is very likely that this person will begin to practice a religion that corresponds more to his condition, in this case, islam

why do you consider that this "study" is concrete? do you consider that everything claimed in "studies" is intrinsically true?

if you are not a troll and you legitimately think what you claim,you need some milk and/or ripe fruits only diet for a few hours/days,it will free you from those ridiculous ideas that are bad for you and for the world,you will come back to us with more love

There is no sense in arguing with a person like this. Islam is the supreme parasitical religion, spread through fear and violence, that also instills in followers a bizarre moral arrogance. Your arguments mean nothing, because you are an other. And no, changing his diet is not going to wake him up to the barbaric cult he's in.

 

[ursidae]

Men want to have lots of sex but want women to be virgins - the solution? Become gay. No women wants a vulgar man

Become gay or sodomize goats. Whatever you do, let it not be the standard behaviour of stringing women along, spreading STD's, having other women on the side and wasting their reproductive years in a faux relationship because you can't get regular sex from one night stands.

 

[Nomane Euger]

There is no sense in arguing with a person like this. Islam is the supreme parasitical religion, spread through fear and violence, that also instills in followers a bizarre moral arrogance. Your arguments mean nothing, because you are an other. And no, changing his diet is not going to wake him up to the barbaric cult he's in.

let us have esteem and optimism for other human beings, he is not inherently "bad". most people in their lives have ideas that they later consider as bad or illegitimate, he is not doomed, he is not inherently worse than other people, if he is not a troll, it's just the culture he's immersed in and his propensity to embrace it. yes food can change his outlook and make him sick of such ideas, i my self was once a young peasant with a feeling of belonging to islam

 

[animalcule]

They are definitely not. This argument has been thoroughly analyzed and explained in the Red Pill communities.
Average males and less than average males(less physically attractive) are indeed getting much less. That's because the attractive men are getting all the women.
The average woman will stay single and not date the average man, all while hooking up with the handsome men for one night stands.

Yea, I've seen stuff like this. And, it does not jibe with the experience of me or my friends or other women I'm seeing now who are single and childless. Am I in some puritanical/autistic bubble? I didn't think so. None of my friends were "getting the D on the regular" or whatever you wrote. None of them were dating a string of handsome men all through their 20s ... That is not the reality I'm seeing around me. Maybe it's not representative of as big of a segment as I thought, but I don't think it's rare, either.
There is an obvious trend towards hookups and casual sex that we can see in social media/movies/memoirs, etc. I don't deny this exists, and that many women engage in it. This has gone on for decades, and now enabled by modern dating apps. But I don't think it is an accurate depiction of a large segment of the female population, the ones I described in my original post. And Gen Z is more mentally ill, more alienated than millennials.

 

[FocusedOnHealth]

Why not just find the person of your dreams, settle down, get married and have as much sex as you want? That’a a win-win.

 

[-Luke-]

Yea, I've seen stuff like this. And, it does not jibe with the experience of me or my friends or other women I'm seeing now who are single and childless. Am I in some puritanical/autistic bubble?

It's also not my experience. I see average- or below-average looking men with girlfriends every day. Pretty regularly I see a couple where the woman is more attractive than the man (not that there is a global ranking, but you get the idea). My ex-girlfriend was clearly more attractive / more handsome than I was.

The tendency in the above picture may be accurate, but I think it's overblown.

 

[imei3489]

due to several reasons, social media being the biggest one, young women now value looks above everything else when it comes to dating. for young people, its 95% looks. life in general for young people is 90% based on your looks. looks are everything. this is the new world. anyone below 30 denying this are completely delusional, and/or coping in my opinion. the blackpill is a hard one to swallow, i dont blame boomers for not understanding, looks were not as important when they grew up.
young men have become bitter and hateful towards women because an increasingly larger number of women are dating an increasingly smaller number of men. if you are a 3/10 in 2022, you will get virtually no female attention, no matter your personality, status or anything else. it is my prediction, that in the near future, girls will love their parents almost entirely based on looks- i know many teenage girls who do not like their fathers because they find them unattractive.
i went from a short 3/10 to a tall somewhat attractive person, and my life was completely changed over night, with zero change to my personality. both genders suddenly treated me much better. this statement triggers people so much, thats how i know the black pill is the truth. young women today can not differentiate between attractiveness and personality.

 

[Iceman2016]

Recently, a very sincere 25 year old woman posted a personal ad on this forum. While many people were respectful and encouraging, a number of men made some rude/vulgar responses that are pretty typical in many alt forums, stating/implying things like: 25 year olds are too old to be attractive mates; women are too promiscuous in their youth and only want to settle down when they're 'used up' and no one wants them anymore, etc. These posters reek of arrogance, cynicism and disappointment (or sometimes, just foolishness) -- and they're happy to spread it around, with 'the truth hurts!' as the defense. I've frequented alt-type forums for over a decade, so this vein of thinking is not new to me, it's common (not shock posting as I think some ppl imagine it is), and there are obvious elements of truths behind it. Yes, our culture encourages women to be sexually 'liberated' and have many partners; people are encouraged to be at worst neutral about promiscuity; Women are most attractive/fertile in their early twenties, but are discouraged from getting married and having kids young; Women are encouraged to prioritize career and 'finding themselves' before settling down; Many women seem to 'wait too long' and never find anyone, or struggle with infertility if they get married in their 30s; By discouraging early, long term monogamy/marriage, our culture has created a dating game where men at the top can reap the benefit of commitment-free sex with many women, while men at the bottom get little to nothing. This is true. But this constant refrain that if a woman doesn't get married or have kids within the optimal window, this must be because she was a promiscuous/career woman who didn't prioritize finding a husband and settling down ... The older I get, and the more I experience in my own life and friends' lives, the more this rings untrue. I wonder if this refrain is just an echo of a previous era, when this might have been true of most unmarried, childless women, but a refrain that does not describe today's unmarried, childless women accurately at all - or at least not a large segment of them.

Many women I know hardly date at all. They have jobs/careers not because they're particularly ambitious, but because they're on their own and need them to survive. If anything, being ambitious and negotiating in the way you need to in order to rise in many careers is very difficult for many women. Jobs are stressful, crying is common, as is feeling lonely and isolated (even pre pandemic). They're the opposite of promiscuous. In some cases they've suffered a wounding or traumatic relationship/breakup in their early twenties, and it takes them years before they feel recovered from it and ready to date again. So 24 becomes 30, and those prime relationship building years of their lives are lost to them. Often the men they date have no interest in marriage -- maybe they should date more strategically, or aggressively, and vet potential dates for marriage immediately. Some women can do that. But many women just ... don't. Especially if they don't have a good network of people encouraging them in this way. I think there are a lot of atomized women out there, desperate for someone to which to attach themselves. So maybe they hang on to a bad boyfriend for 7 years, hoping it will turn into something better, but it never does. "That's her fault!" some may say. I say maybe it's just evidence of the instability of individualism. Or evidence of the necessity of good rituals and conventions. Promiscuity (as encouraged by hookup culture) does not come naturally to many women, but even a desire for long term monogamy is not enough if the culture does not encourage and support it and produce people capable of taking part in it.

As an example, there's a woman named Beatrice Caruso who has a YouTube channel that centers on her weight loss journey, but also dips into her day to day life, relationships, etc. She's 30 years old, but has been single for (I think) something like 4 years or so. IIRC, her last boyfriend dumped her and maybe also cheated on her, it was a bad breakup and evidently she's been unable to really recover from it and find someone new. She's kind hearted, sensitive, funny, and creative. She has a damaged relationship with her father, some problems with social anxiety and binge eating, and recently diagnosed ADHD (and possibly 'autism'). She had a stable job for years as a graphic designer, but recently quit due to feeling under appreciated and taken advantage of at work and being unable to negotiate for a deserved raise (among other things). You can tell she wants to be a good person, and she hates when her awkwardness sends people the wrong message. She is overweight, but I think she's beautiful. She is not promiscuous and 'used up.' She's a sweet, responsible woman who has worked to avoid the financial instability of her parents. She is not an ambitious career woman who has put career success over relationships. But she is single, and struggling to find someone, and, imo, much more representative of the average woman than the flashy, seductive, careerist woman trope we see on tv/movies/social media, the same trope that is still being dragged out to explain why so many women are unmarried, childless, and unhappy.

Millenials are not having a lot of sex. Gen Z is having even less. In this article, Gen Z-ers seem to have wised up to the fact that most casual sex is just being used: Gen Z Are “Puriteens,” But Not For The Reasons You Think

But does this mean that Gen Z will return to monogamy and early marriage? Maybe, but probably not. Given their rates of mental illness and sense of alienation I imagine they will tend towards celibacy over marriage. (If anyone has any info on this, that would appreciated, interested to see how this plays out) More and more people seem to be taking up the label of "autistic" due to symptoms that seem to reflect an inability to connect with others and function in the way modern life demands. I'm not a social person by any means, and it is really unnerving to think that my state of mind may become the norm soon. I'd rather be an outsider in a society of sane and stable social people, than a relative insider in a society of unhinged, disconnected, dysfunctional people (though the pandemic may have illuminated that that's already the case, hah...).

Women are less and less childless/unmarried as the result of promiscuity/career pursuits. I think it is a dying trope, and a scapegoat that will eventually crumble. Yes, some women follow this path. But more and more are leading lives that are the result of alienation, trauma, atomization, decaying mating rituals, and resulting celibacy. Similar things seem to be happening to men.

Everything you have written here is balanced and reasonable. Great post.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

There is an obvious trend towards hookups and casual sex that we can see in social media/movies/memoirs, etc. I don't deny this exists, and that many women engage in it. This has gone on for decades, and now enabled by modern dating apps. But I don't think it is an accurate depiction of a large segment of the female population, the ones I described in my original post

The reality is probably somewhere in the middle. I think it’s a larger segment of female the population that you think.
It’s also true that young women do get on with normal looking guys, not always with Chads. I’ve seen pretty women in relationships with these guys.
Looks are not everything. Dominance and masculinity are very attractive traits in a man.
Being cool and comfortable with yourself too.

Women rarely stay single more than a couple of months, they don’t like being alone. So they get into relationships with regular guys too.
When they break up, she hooks up a few times with a high value guys, he is just using her for sex. She gets hurt, realises she will not be able to make guys of that calibre commit to her. Then she eventually finds a safe guy to enter a relationship. Not too handsome, not too cocky. A regular, normal guy with a nice personality. One that will not hurt her.

 

[Iceman2016]

Here we go again smh. If you think that the modern woman today is marriage material, then either you're sleeping under a rock or you're gonna give me the phone number to your dealer because its apparent you're smoking that good ***t and i want some too.
For real now, you call us cynical and arrogant just because we want a wife thats virgin and that can take care of the house? Thats the exact same lines the cunts who protested for sexual revolution also said. Tell me, how many women in the west are virgins today compared to 100+ years ago? If you think that women today aren't promiscuous like hell at their youth, then you need a reality check my friend.

And before you call me MGTOW and all that crap, I ain't an Incel, i think that movement is closed off of society in a bad way, but they arent lying when it comes to the state of the world today.

I say this with all respect: from your posts it seems you've been watching too many redpill/blackpill/mgtow/porn vidoes on YouTube and Instagram... and it's causing you to only see the worst in other people and society as a whole. It really isn't as bad out there as you think it is. I see tons of girls all around me that are not promiscuous, have great personalities, have respect for their parents and families, etc. There is no shortage of beautiful, intelligent, modest, decent girls out there. There have always been more good, eligible women than men when it comes to marriage. I'm not saying there aren't a lot of promiscuous/materialistic ones as well... it's just that it seems your focusing so much on the negative that it is clouding your judgement of reality.