Topical DHEA for muscle growth and strength gains

[76er]

I would be weary of using even more than 5mg to start with. Some people notice benefits from as little as 2-3mg topically. Remember that it converts to estrogen in excess

Thanks. Noted.

 

[Beastmode]

Topical DHEA is several times better absorbed than oral DHEA and I'm sure the solvent makes a big difference. DMSO is the best followed by ethanol followed by oil. Oil does probably have a 10% absorption rate and ethanol probably around 30-50% maybe even higher.

As per your question on calculating absorption, I have no idea. Oil is definitely the worse and DMSO the best. Ethanol in somewhere in the middle.

I think the main thing I've noticed is an improvement in muscle tone. Perhaps recovery as well, but not sure. No effect on libido for me as far as I can tell.

Do you put 2x the amount of dhea of that ethanol solvent to reach a 50% absorption rate via skin?

What is your absorption target rate per use/day?

 

[Hans]

Do you put 2x the amount of dhea of that ethanol solvent to reach a 50% absorption rate via skin?

What is your absorption target rate per use/day?

I use about 10-15mg daily, so if it's 50% absorption, then I'm getting 5-7.5mg, which is fine. Since DHEA is converted to DHEA-fatty acids, which have a very long half-life. So it will build up over time.

 

[Chophouse360]

Topical DHEA for muscle growth and strength gains » TESTONATION

DHEA is considered a prohormone and not an actual steroid. Although it does lack anabolic and exercise performance-enhancing effects compared to anabolic-androgenic steroids, it’s still banned by WADA. Despite its lack of anabolic effect, it has many benefits, including assisting in muscle...

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What's been your results with topical DHEA?

Do you use the topical dhea even on days you don’t lift?

 

[Hans]

Do you use the topical dhea even on days you don’t lift?

Yes, atm.

 

[Hans]

.

 

[76er]

I started my topical DHEA today.

I did 8 drops (~15mg – thanks @rr1 & @Hans), 4 drops on each pectoral ahead of my chest and back workout.

Tomorrow will be triceps, biceps and delts (rear, middle, front).
I plan on to put the drops on the biceps and delts but not the triceps because I won't be able to put the drops on them. (?)

Wednesday is legs (hams, quads, calves, and glutes). I plan to do 4 drops on each quad.

@all Please chime in if you'd put the drops on different muscles.

Thursday is pecs and back again. (8 drops planned).
Friday is arms and shoulders again ("").
Saturday, legs again ("").

All resistance exercises are isolated and almost all are independent unilateral.
Each day consists of 2x ~20-min sessions, except for some legs days (ofc lol).

Other supps:
- ~30g of gelatin/collagen
- ~1g of aspirin (3 x 325mg – morning, 3pm, and before bed).
- 5K iu Vitamin D (oral).
- 100mg Vitamin K (oral)

I'm currently 50 years old, 6'0 / 210lbs / ~15% body fat. Have a wife and four kids.

I consume anywhere from 2.8K to 3.3K in daily calories.

Winter in N.E. U.S.A. can be very active with snow removal, backyard ice hockey, and snowboarding.
But you can also have a whole week where you do zilch because of warm weather.
I've actually been losing a bit of fat since December even hitting 3.3K calories on most days and with 35%-40% calories coming from fat.

I'll report back in 8 weeks.

 

[Hans]

I started my topical DHEA today.

I did 8 drops (~15mg – thanks @rr1 & @Hans), 4 drops on each pectoral ahead of my chest and back workout.

Tomorrow will be triceps, biceps and delts (rear, middle, front).
I plan on to put the drops on the biceps and delts but not the triceps because I won't be able to put the drops on them. (?)

Wednesday is legs (hams, quads, calves, and glutes). I plan to do 4 drops on each quad.

@all Please chime in if you'd put the drops on different muscles.

Thursday is pecs and back again. (8 drops planned).
Friday is arms and shoulders again ("").
Saturday, legs again ("").

All resistance exercises are isolated and almost all are independent unilateral.
Each day consists of 2x ~20-min sessions, except for some legs days (ofc lol).

Other supps:
- ~30g of gelatin/collagen
- ~1g of aspirin (3 x 325mg – morning, 3pm, and before bed).
- 5K iu Vitamin D (oral).
- 100mg Vitamin K (oral)

I'm currently 50 years old, 6'0 / 210lbs / ~15% body fat. Have a wife and four kids.

I consume anywhere from 2.8K to 3.3K in daily calories.

Winter in N.E. U.S.A. can be very active with snow removal, backyard ice hockey, and snowboarding.
But you can also have a whole week where you do zilch because of warm weather.
I've actually been losing a bit of fat since December even hitting 3.3K calories on most days and with 35%-40% calories coming from fat.

I'll report back in 8 weeks.

Looks great. ?

 

[Beastmode]

I started my topical DHEA today.

I did 8 drops (~15mg – thanks @rr1 & @Hans), 4 drops on each pectoral ahead of my chest and back workout.

Tomorrow will be triceps, biceps and delts (rear, middle, front).
I plan on to put the drops on the biceps and delts but not the triceps because I won't be able to put the drops on them. (?)

Wednesday is legs (hams, quads, calves, and glutes). I plan to do 4 drops on each quad.

@all Please chime in if you'd put the drops on different muscles.

Thursday is pecs and back again. (8 drops planned).
Friday is arms and shoulders again ("").
Saturday, legs again ("").

All resistance exercises are isolated and almost all are independent unilateral.
Each day consists of 2x ~20-min sessions, except for some legs days (ofc lol).

Other supps:
- ~30g of gelatin/collagen
- ~1g of aspirin (3 x 325mg – morning, 3pm, and before bed).
- 5K iu Vitamin D (oral).
- 100mg Vitamin K (oral)

I'm currently 50 years old, 6'0 / 210lbs / ~15% body fat. Have a wife and four kids.

I consume anywhere from 2.8K to 3.3K in daily calories.

Winter in N.E. U.S.A. can be very active with snow removal, backyard ice hockey, and snowboarding.
But you can also have a whole week where you do zilch because of warm weather.
I've actually been losing a bit of fat since December even hitting 3.3K calories on most days and with 35%-40% calories coming from fat.

I'll report back in 8 weeks.

My supplement stack is pretty identical. Slightly under the caloric range, but I"m 5'9 and 175 lbs.

I feel good on this. The DHEA definitely makes a difference, which I really notice when off for a period of time. It impacts me more in the strength department more than muscularity, but I think what @Hans mentions about it's effect on people with a little to a lot of muscle applies in my situation.

Do you ever take T3 and/or T3/T4?

 

[76er]

My supplement stack is pretty identical. Slightly under the caloric range, but I"m 5'9 and 175 lbs.

I feel good on this. The DHEA definitely makes a difference, which I really notice when off for a period of time. It impacts me more in the strength department more than muscularity, but I think what @Hans mentions about it's effect on people with a little to a lot of muscle applies in my situation.

Do you ever take T3 and/or T3/T4?

re: T3/T4

No I haven't but I have considered it. I assume you'd recommend adding it in? Are you a similar age as me?

 

[Beastmode]

re: T3/T4

No I haven't but I have considered it. I assume you'd recommend adding it in? Are you a similar age as me?

I'm 43.

I only use it at night for it's benefits for keeping TSH down, etc. Typically around 1/8th of a tablet or slightly less.

T3 in the morning in afternoon.

 

[baccheion]

If you can find it, can you share it? DHEA increases testosterone a lot in women, but that's because their T is so low to begin with. It increases T to the same extent in men, but since we have a lot more T, it barely makes a dent.

Here: Long term DHEA supplementation doubles androgens and progesterone in males

 

[Hans]

Here: Long term DHEA supplementation doubles androgens and progesterone in males

You mean from 200 to 400ng/dl. It's good it took them out of a hypogonadal state, but if they had 400 already, it would definitely not double their T. Maybe not even increase it by a 100 points.

 

[76er]

I'm ~3 months into topical DHEA. I'm using BHRT DHEA oil w/ coconut oil and Vitamin E. You can read my comments above for the how, when, and quantities. My auxiliary supplementation has not changed from those comments.

Observations thus far:
- Flaccid hang is consistently better. Very welcome.
- Sex dreams increased, not really welcome.
- Hypertrophy: None that I've measured.
- Strength. I do isolation resistance exercises with bands focusing on physique so I don't measure "strength" per se.
- Morning wood: I'd say there has been an increase. Basically daily now even on some mornings after nightly intercourse (that's new I think).
- Physique: My waist (around naval) grow a bit (36" to 37") but I've also been near 4K daily calories. Trying to bulk. I went from 16% body fat to a current 18%. That's my limit so I'm going to slowly go back down to 15%-16%. I weigh 210 lbs @ a height of 6' ½".
- Libido: Slight uptick I'd say.
- Misc:
- I think I've been a touch more confident and assertive but I need to watch it because even before DHEA intake I could be characterized as "bossy".
- I have more chest hair on the nipples and on the upper pecs.

I'll report back in another 3 months.

 

[Hans]

I'm ~3 months into topical DHEA. I'm using BHRT DHEA oil w/ coconut oil and Vitamin E. You can read my comments above for the how, when, and quantities. My auxiliary supplementation has not changed from those comments.

Observations thus far:
- Flaccid hang is consistently better. Very welcome.
- Sex dreams increased, not really welcome.
- Hypertrophy: None that I've measured.
- Strength. I do isolation resistance exercises with bands focusing on physique so I don't measure "strength" per se.
- Morning wood: I'd say there has been an increase. Basically daily now even on some mornings after nightly intercourse (that's new I think).
- Physique: My waist (around naval) grow a bit (36" to 37") but I've also been near 4K daily calories. Trying to bulk. I went from 16% body fat to a current 18%. That's my limit so I'm going to slowly go back down to 15%-16%. I weigh 210 lbs @ a height of 6' ½".
- Libido: Slight uptick I'd say.
- Misc:
- I think I've been a touch more confident and assertive but I need to watch it because even before DHEA intake I could be characterized as "bossy".
- I have more chest hair on the nipples and on the upper pecs.

I'll report back in another 3 months.

Very nice, how much are you using?

 

[76er]

8 drops or ~16mg on resistance exercise days – so six days a week.

 

[jordybrunson89]

Thoughts on Peat saying excess DHEA -> Estrogen conversion can increase the liver?

How to prevent DHEA from converting into estrogen?

 

[BalkanPeater]

Thoughts on Peat saying excess DHEA -> Estrogen conversion can increase the liver?

How to prevent DHEA from converting into estrogen?

Things that generally inhibit the aromatase enzyme such as Aspirin, and Vitamin E (tochopherols not tocotrienols). You could take the bodybuilder route and use low dose Exemestane but I wouldn’t touch that stuff without baseline blood work first.

 

[76er]

@jordybrunson89
I take 1g-1.6 grams of aspirin daily (aromatase inhibitor) and Vitamin E (orally and there is also some in the topical DHEA brand I bought).

@BalkanPeater
Thanks for the heads around the checking for tochopherols / tocotrienols content in the Vitamin E.

 

[Beastmode]

Thoughts on Peat saying excess DHEA -> Estrogen conversion can increase the liver?

How to prevent DHEA from converting into estrogen?

Might be avoiding dhea for the time being if you don't have a strong foundation of the basics that Peat suggests. He hardly ever suggests things like dhea in the first place if basic things aren't in place.

In my personal experience, I notice a huge difference trying it when in a hypo state compared to having a strong foundation in the fundamentals. It was very easy to get an estrogenic like reaction to a lot of supplements. I meant to add that part in a previous post.