Troubleshooting Foamy Urine

[RWilly]

I have microalbuminuria, which isn't as bad as albuminuria. The "micro" says it all. Still, you won't believe the foaming even with the "micro" suffixing it.

Usually, the protein is albumin. But I don't believe it's totally on the kidneys, as the understanding is that it's all the kidneys' fault when it lets through albumin, as if the kidneys are so leaky it would let the albumin pass through. How much the albumin is oxidized, due to oxidative stresses it encounters, has an effect. How much of the albumin in the blood loses its agglomerative mass as well. When other protein an peptides agglomerate with albumin in blood, and stays that way, keeps the mass large enough to keep albumin from passing through the nephrons to the tubules of the kidneys. If these proteins/peptides are removed from the agglomerate, by bacteria and/or bacterial enzymes, that would make it more likely to albumin to pass through the kidneys.

I'm still struggling to keep albumin from being excreted through the kidneys, but I'm trying to keep that from happening. I think that if could overcome the strength bacterial/fungal biofilm mass, or weaken them, and eventually vanquish them, I'd see less excretion of albumin thru my kidneys. This is why I don't see albumineria as strictly a kidney issue, but that is easily the knee-jerk reflex of our conventional doctors.

Do you have issues with low ceruloplasmin? Have they every checked you for Wilson's disease?

 

[yerrag]

Do you have issues with low ceruloplasmin? Have they every checked you for Wilson's disease?

Wilson's disease - Wikipedia:

Wilson's disease is a genetic disorder in which excess copper builds up in the body.[1] Symptoms are typically related to the brain and liver.[1] Liver-related symptoms include vomiting, weakness, fluid build up in the abdomen, swelling of the legs, yellowish skin and itchiness.[1] Brain-related symptoms include tremors, muscle stiffness, trouble speaking, personality changes, anxiety and seeing or hearing things that others do not.[1]

This doesn't describe me. I've tested my ceruloplasmin and it isn't low either.

How are you seeing the connection to Wilson's disease?

 

[yerrag]

I love your posts, yerrag

Really?! I hope we can both be able to get rid of our foamy urine. A step at a time.

 

[jdrop]

My experiences with foam nearly always connect with periods of higher environmental stress and/or lack of sleep/nutrients. My experience seems to fit Ray's explanation. More often in winter, as well.

 

[yerrag]

This article from just last year sheds some light on our fascination with foamy urine:

Foamy Urine

Only 1/3 of those who suffer from foamy urine have proteinuria.

Some possibilities:

 

[yerrag]

Hmm... the article makes me wonder if taking taurine would increase foaminess in urine:

Moreover, laxatives that stimulate the flow of bile into the duodenum (cholagogue) or stimulate the production of bile by the liver (choleretic) can potentially increase bile salt excretion in the urine after escaping the enterohepatic circulation.

Doesn't taurine stimulate the production of bile?

Not that it's a bad thing for me, if taurine takes the place of albumin being excreted. But that's a big "if."

 

[Vinny]

Hmm... the article makes me wonder if taking taurine would increase foaminess in urine:

Moreover, laxatives that stimulate the flow of bile into the duodenum (cholagogue) or stimulate the production of bile by the liver (choleretic) can potentially increase bile salt excretion in the urine after escaping the enterohepatic circulation.

Doesn't taurine stimulate the production of bile?

Not that it's a bad thing for me, if taurine takes the place of albumin being excreted. But that's a big "if."

They put in the article also two other possible reasons:
Cholestasis
and
ruptured cells releasing membrane phospholipids in the urine

If it,s cholestasis, how do we know if we have this condition? How it,s being tested? I,ve got an unresolved constant feeling in the liver/gallbladder area since probably the time I got frothy pee or earlier...

If it,s from ruptured membranes, than what could cause them to rupture, **** it?

 

[Vinny]

And they hypothesize also a bacterial enteric overgrowth.... which is tested how? I might have this ***t as well, damn it...

 

[Nigel Forester]

This article from just last year sheds some light on our fascination with foamy urine:

Foamy Urine

Only 1/3 of those who suffer from foamy urine have proteinuria.

Some possibilities:

When ppl here talk about foamy urine does yours look like above? I always thought I had it but compared to the above pic it’s “bubbly” not foamy. It goes away when I have a stress free day and sleep well. If I breathe poorly at night or get too much endotoxins it comes back, I find regular carrot salad helps.

 

[Nigel Forester]

And they hypothesize also a bacterial enteric overgrowth.... which is tested how? I might have this ***t as well, damn it...

I think the person making that claim is guessing/using intuition. Don’t let others interpretations of their health freak you out, it’s a bad path to go down. Don’t get neurotic. Most ppl don’t even notice things like this or care. Imho it’s a sign of stress hormones and that correlates to my experience. My urine does not bubble/foam when I feel great and eat enough and sleep well, except for upon waking in morning. I noticed it lessened a lot since starting aspirin daily.

 

[yerrag]

Hmm... the article makes me wonder if taking taurine would increase foaminess in urine:

Moreover, laxatives that stimulate the flow of bile into the duodenum (cholagogue) or stimulate the production of bile by the liver (choleretic) can potentially increase bile salt excretion in the urine after escaping the enterohepatic circulation.

Doesn't taurine stimulate the production of bile?

Not that it's a bad thing for me, if taurine takes the place of albumin being excreted. But that's a big "if."

The past 3 days I've seen no foam in my urine. Bubbles, yes, but these are large bubbles that eventually pop.

Not exactly sure what made the difference. I'd like to be more scientific about it, by adding one stuff at a time and seeing if it works or not, but this is one time I told myself to just throw the kitchen sink at the problem.

I'm convinced in my case that it was either albumin or taurine that was causing the foam.

When I wasn't taking taurine, there was foam already. So, it was albumin causing the foaming during that time. But when I took taurine at 4 grams/day spread out from rising to bedtime (taurine was put in my drinking water), I was waking up a lot at night, having to pee with a lot of foaming I cut back to 2 grams and only drank the solution from morning till 6 pm. Then I saw my urine not foaming not anymore, and I was sleeping better, having to wake up less often.

I think that, though excess taurine was causing the foaminess, it was probably keeping albumin from being excreted in the urine. Not that I think that it's the major factor for why my urine foaminess is gone.

So why did my albumin excretion lessen? The backstory: I have a biofilm community in my blood vessel walls, which I'm convinced is caused by the accumulation of periodontal bacteria over the years I had a hidden periodontal bacterial infection. This went on undetected for at least fifteen years, so you can imagine how much this biofilm community would have grown. I was asymptomatic though, except for high hypertension.

As I researched on this bacteria, I'm to learn that one of the things (there are other bad things it does, but I want to focus) the bacteria does is it produces enzymes that cut down protein/peptides, so that it can use them for food - for itself and for its symbiotic bacterial and fungi partners. Albumin in blood attracts peptides and proteins and form agglomerates, and the agglomerates take on a size that dwarfs the size of a single albumin molecule. With this size, it was difficult to the agglomerates to get past the nephron filter of the kidneys. In this situation, no foaming comes with peeing, as the urine contains little or no albumin. In the other situation, foaming occurs because the albumin is able to get past the nephron filter.

One way to keep albumin agglomerated is to get rid of the periodontal bacteria. And this is why I have to take antibiotics. The problem is that I can't in one fell swoop get rid of this bacteria. This bacteria is protected by biofilm, and this biofilm is spread out over my entire vascular network. I'll need biofilm busters and use them judiciously, so that the amount of bacteria released as the biofilm bursts would not overwhelm my system. And then I'd have to neutralize these suddenly active bacteria (previously dormant in biofilm) either through my innate immune system (white blood cells, specifically neutrophils) and/or with antibiotics. Given the risk of using antibiotics (bacterial resistance, and the ability of antibiotics to weaken the body's mitochondria), this is no small matter. Suffice it to say that it is an impossibility to expect the bacteria to be gone immediately, and I'd have to find a way to minimize the effects of the ever-present bacteria, and the effect I can focus on is on the bacteria's ability to de-agglomerate the albumin-based agglomeration in my blood.

I've resorted to using TCM and some herbs in order to neutralize the enzymes that the bacteria produces. And it seems to be having a good effect. I'm using a berberine extract, called Huang Lian, although I'm using it to neutralize another enzyme that inhibits the production of insulin and wrecking the balance needed for proper blood sugar regulation. I'm taking a TCM blend called Si Wu Tang, which peonia lactiflora and angelica sinensis. And I'm taking also Da Huang (rhubarb). They seem to be having a positive effect with respect to keeping my albumin agglomerates intact. Also helping with this is my taking regularly ceylon cinnamon (for its proanthocyanides).

Other than this, there are other supplements I'm taking, although these supplements are meant to help with my use of antibiotics, in further weakening the strength and support structure that enables the bacteria to thrive, such as lactoferrin, chitosan, roselle calyx powder, erythritol, and d-ribose. Also drinking black tea (te kuan yin is tasty) for its catechins.

The lessening of foaming is all well and good, but I'd like to see this translate into better blood test numbers - lower numbers in RBC, hemoglobin, and hematocrit in the CBC test - which would indicate higher blood volume. To help increase blood volume, I'm also increasing intake of salt and potassium. With increased blood volume, I can very well expect my blood pressure to decrease.

The loss of foaming may just be transient, though, but I'm hoping it's not. In the long run, I'll have to work out a way to be a genocidal maniac and wipe p. gingivalis off my blood vessels. Will be needing some very hard to get essential oils and an oxyprenylated coumarin called Lacinartin, as well as a good mix of antibiotics and optimal dosing, and a good rotation of their usage to prevent bacterial resistance as well as mitochondrial dysfunction.

Now to see if the foaming stays abated.

 

[Vinny]

The past 3 days I've seen no foam in my urine. Bubbles, yes, but these are large bubbles that eventually pop.

Not exactly sure what made the difference. I'd like to be more scientific about it, by adding one stuff at a time and seeing if it works or not, but this is one time I told myself to just throw the kitchen sink at the problem.

I'm convinced in my case that it was either albumin or taurine that was causing the foam.

When I wasn't taking taurine, there was foam already. So, it was albumin causing the foaming during that time. But when I took taurine at 4 grams/day spread out from rising to bedtime (taurine was put in my drinking water), I was waking up a lot at night, having to pee with a lot of foaming I cut back to 2 grams and only drank the solution from morning till 6 pm. Then I saw my urine not foaming not anymore, and I was sleeping better, having to wake up less often.

I think that, though excess taurine was causing the foaminess, it was probably keeping albumin from being excreted in the urine. Not that I think that it's the major factor for why my urine foaminess is gone.

So why did my albumin excretion lessen? The backstory: I have a biofilm community in my blood vessel walls, which I'm convinced is caused by the accumulation of periodontal bacteria over the years I had a hidden periodontal bacterial infection. This went on undetected for at least fifteen years, so you can imagine how much this biofilm community would have grown. I was asymptomatic though, except for high hypertension.

As I researched on this bacteria, I'm to learn that one of the things (there are other bad things it does, but I want to focus) the bacteria does is it produces enzymes that cut down protein/peptides, so that it can use them for food - for itself and for its symbiotic bacterial and fungi partners. Albumin in blood attracts peptides and proteins and form agglomerates, and the agglomerates take on a size that dwarfs the size of a single albumin molecule. With this size, it was difficult to the agglomerates to get past the nephron filter of the kidneys. In this situation, no foaming comes with peeing, as the urine contains little or no albumin. In the other situation, foaming occurs because the albumin is able to get past the nephron filter.

One way to keep albumin agglomerated is to get rid of the periodontal bacteria. And this is why I have to take antibiotics. The problem is that I can't in one fell swoop get rid of this bacteria. This bacteria is protected by biofilm, and this biofilm is spread out over my entire vascular network. I'll need biofilm busters and use them judiciously, so that the amount of bacteria released as the biofilm bursts would not overwhelm my system. And then I'd have to neutralize these suddenly active bacteria (previously dormant in biofilm) either through my innate immune system (white blood cells, specifically neutrophils) and/or with antibiotics. Given the risk of using antibiotics (bacterial resistance, and the ability of antibiotics to weaken the body's mitochondria), this is no small matter. Suffice it to say that it is an impossibility to expect the bacteria to be gone immediately, and I'd have to find a way to minimize the effects of the ever-present bacteria, and the effect I can focus on is on the bacteria's ability to de-agglomerate the albumin-based agglomeration in my blood.

I've resorted to using TCM and some herbs in order to neutralize the enzymes that the bacteria produces. And it seems to be having a good effect. I'm using a berberine extract, called Huang Lian, although I'm using it to neutralize another enzyme that inhibits the production of insulin and wrecking the balance needed for proper blood sugar regulation. I'm taking a TCM blend called Si Wu Tang, which peonia lactiflora and angelica sinensis. And I'm taking also Da Huang (rhubarb). They seem to be having a positive effect with respect to keeping my albumin agglomerates intact. Also helping with this is my taking regularly ceylon cinnamon (for its proanthocyanides).

Other than this, there are other supplements I'm taking, although these supplements are meant to help with my use of antibiotics, in further weakening the strength and support structure that enables the bacteria to thrive, such as lactoferrin, chitosan, roselle calyx powder, erythritol, and d-ribose. Also drinking black tea (te kuan yin is tasty) for its catechins.

The lessening of foaming is all well and good, but I'd like to see this translate into better blood test numbers - lower numbers in RBC, hemoglobin, and hematocrit in the CBC test - which would indicate higher blood volume. To help increase blood volume, I'm also increasing intake of salt and potassium. With increased blood volume, I can very well expect my blood pressure to decrease.

The loss of foaming may just be transient, though, but I'm hoping it's not. In the long run, I'll have to work out a way to be a genocidal maniac and wipe p. gingivalis off my blood vessels. Will be needing some very hard to get essential oils and an oxyprenylated coumarin called Lacinartin, as well as a good mix of antibiotics and optimal dosing, and a good rotation of their usage to prevent bacterial resistance as well as mitochondrial dysfunction.

Now to see if the foaming stays abated.

Glad you see some improvemdnts, mate. Am still struggling to figure out mine.
Yesterday indulged on potato chips, and today was much worse. Kinda tells me that certain foods that probably feed bcteria, like starch (RP right) should be excluded, so this is what Am going to do now, and we,ll see...

 

[jdrop]

I noticed that after morning sex, no bubbles. Might be more of a mechanical reason, rather than hormonal in this case. Or hormonal, I don't know.

 

[yerrag]

Glad you see some improvemdnts, mate. Am still struggling to figure out mine.
Yesterday indulged on potato chips, and today was much worse. Kinda tells me that certain foods that probably feed bcteria, like starch (RP right) should be excluded, so this is what Am going to do now, and we,ll see...

Since I stopped taking doxycyline (I was concerned about my temps dropping, and perhaps I'm seeing the effect of taking antibiotics for too long, as it could affect the mitochondrial energy production), 2 days later I started to see more foam. I may shift to another antibiotic, or introduce rotation of different antibiotics, but I haven't figured out how to do this. So while I'm off antibiotics, I'm inhaling essential oils using a portable nebulizer, in the hope the anti-bacterial effects would keep the bacteria at bay. I'll know if it's effective, if I continue to see less foam in my urine.

My problem isn't in the gut, and knowing this makes a difference in how I'm approaching the foaming problem.

I wonder if you could be able to totally eliminate the gut as a cause - by doing everything you possbly can - to eliminate gut issues. If it still persists, then you can start looking at factors outside your gut.

 

[Vinny]

Since I stopped taking doxycyline (I was concerned about my temps dropping, and perhaps I'm seeing the effect of taking antibiotics for too long, as it could affect the mitochondrial energy production), 2 days later I started to see more foam. I may shift to another antibiotic, or introduce rotation of different antibiotics, but I haven't figured out how to do this. So while I'm off antibiotics, I'm inhaling essential oils using a portable nebulizer, in the hope the anti-bacterial effects would keep the bacteria at bay. I'll know if it's effective, if I continue to see less foam in my urine.

My problem isn't in the gut, and knowing this makes a difference in how I'm approaching the foaming problem.

I wonder if you could be able to totally eliminate the gut as a cause - by doing everything you possbly can - to eliminate gut issues. If it still persists, then you can start looking at factors outside your gut.

Exactly. Must eliminate the gut first, with all means my body can handle.

Doxy gave me brutal constipation when I took it, so dropped it off. Sad, coz it,s the only antbx I can get here without prescription, plus dirt cheap.

Ordered Erythrodmicin from Mother Russia, but will put my hands on it by 10th of next month. Meanwhyle, will try to ditch all offending foods and see if it makes any difference.

 

[yerrag]

Doxy gave me brutal constipation when I took it, so dropped it off. Sad, coz it,s the only antbx I can get here without prescription, plus dirt cheap.

On @Tarmander 's recent podcast with haidut, I think haidut talked about taking benadryl first before taking doxy. I'm not sure but I think it was because doxy makes him constipate. You may want to check that podcast.

 

[Vinny]

On @Tarmander 's recent podcast with haidut, I think haidut talked about taking benadryl first before taking doxy. I'm not sure but I think it was because doxy makes him constipate. You may want to check that podcast.

Thank you. By accident, I,ve got some Benadryl in my cabinet. However, how do I find the link to the podcast?
Thanks

 

[yerrag]

Interview With Georgi Dinkov: Rebel Researcher And Body Mechanic (Quax)

If you use a podcast player, search for the latest episode of Quax.

 

[maillol]

I'm going to get on board with this. I often have foamy urine too but not always. I don't know what affects it. Will start paying more attention and report back.

 

[Vinny]

I'm going to get on board with this. I often have foamy urine too but not always. I don't know what affects it. Will start paying more attention and report back.

Have you ever spoted an event that triggered it? For example, I got it for the first time after attempting a keto diet...