My replies will be in bold: Some cool stuff coming out in this thread
Ok interesting. So here's some relevant details. I have an elbow injury that responded very well to collagen. I take collagen, it ceases hurting. I don't take collagen, it keeps hurting. Fun fact, this halted being the case when Great Lakes changed their formula. It looked different. Tasted different. Didn't mix well. And quit helping. Get ATP Science unflavoured if you can
Anyway, I would get about 24 hours, maybe 48 hours, of relief from one dose. And then by the next day I could tell I had avoided it.
So it's interesting you say it lasts for about 45 minutes. Peak collagen in blood lasts for that long, the curve up and curve down is much longer and whatever you use for healing the site of issue is obviously staying put, hence the benefits.
I would take it before I made food in the morning.
In your experience, does it have to be taken separate from food? No, never made any real difference, but a lot of my experiments were done pre-Peat and so I don't do collagen only now, always with a little juice or some sugar of some kind. 'eating Protein by itself dropping blood sugar and making stress cascades' kind of theory
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Will you tell me how much that is in grams? I know grams, not tablespoons. I would imagine 10 table spoons to be about 80g but I'm picturing. I use the basic stainless cutlery you find everywhere, measured it just now and its about 8 grams per tablespoon
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Generally I like to play devil's advocate on things like this. They say discs generally repair themselves in 6-8 months anyway. Do you think he would have recovered without the product? His injury stayed at an 8/10 pain or higher for more than the next decade after after the injury, so no. No repair evident. Repair only happens when you have the materials for it. Hence concentration camp victims heading to below 40kg for a 6 foot tall man. No food for repair or replacement of damaged tissue... A lot of people's joints mimic this look, but you just can't SEE the emaciation. It's there, though, evident in the ease of injury or time taken to repair. The discs only healed for him once collagen was introduced to diet. At age 33. Injury at 17 and constant pain till then.
Took 2 months for total pain relief, whereas before he needed 6 codiene to get out of bed and start the day, + regular opiod top-ups during day.
My theory is, repair cycles pause if there's no new repair materials input. This then starts the scavenging (or, eating yourself) so high density joint areas are now pulled at for materials to fix the worst spot. Now, instead of a bad knee, you have a mildly hurting knee and a shoulder joint primed for injury, because the shoulder got cannibalised for parts. It's weaker and you don't know it yet. You get to a point where everything is as bad as it can get, and repair stops.
I reckon same for your ligaments, and that the scavenging is causing the whole body issue / re-injury potential.
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Interesting. Not questioning you, but I wonder if it was cognitive here. If you believe Sarno, most pain like that is emotional. If she believed it was going to work, maybe it worked (assuming there was no physically based pain in the first place). The belief she actually had was an ironclad faith in her idiot naturopath, who had presided over her decline for the last 20 years. Was an absolute tool with no nutrtional knowledge. Her pain had gotten so bad she gave in and had 4 joint replacement surgeries booked. Both knees and both hips.
If there was ANY 'only in the mind' component she would have had help from the mind over matter placebo effect well before even talking to me.
I convinced her, as a last hurrah / hail mary throw, at age 62 or 63, to try collagen at high doses along with bone broth and some MSM for sulphur (as per @yerrag post above). She skimped on the bone broth for 2 months due to not understanding the importance of it and general 'oh no, a new task' mental laziness but was diligent with collagen and MSM.
After a month she had decent pain reduction but was still convinced we'd lose the race and all 4 surgeries would be happening. By month 2 pain had diminished more and she started to be cautiously optimistic (so I know we're as far from placebo or emotional components here as we can get. Pain had halved in all joints BUT she was still convinced 'it won't help enough!!!'
By month 3 she had confessed to the laziness broth failing (repeatedly ignoring it running out and not bothering to make more) and I started to give her some of my regular batches I made, improvements went faster with daily intake. (Beef broth 48 hour simmer. Yes, I know, hadn't come across Peat at this point. It still worked...)
She also at start of month 4 confessed that the one knee that had REFUSED to heal up well enough had had 'crunchy gristle crackling' years ago and some idiot surgeon had drilled out the crackle part 'for better movement'. It had (drumroll for the reveal....) never been right since. What a shock... so EVEN THAT knee started responding to the protocol once bone broth was going in daily... and we hit the wall time wise.
The pre-drilled knee was the only one she got replaced. The rest (2 hips and other knee) are still rolling along fine. 4 ish years after the intervention.
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Yeah! See above
Might using a larger dose of collagen, like mentioned above, provide sufficient to fix the problems? Or are you still lacking components and those other things should be added first? Cautious experimentation with MSM or @yerrag pure tendon recommendation will be good to try, I reckon. I think you might like how a week of 80g collagen per day feels, too.
This is interesting. I am considering having bigger portions of collagen per day. Is there withdrawal when you stop? One day I was fasting and used like 6 servings of collagen throughout the day and felt great; but this could've been the fasting. Given that fasting dramatically lowers all endotoxin, you might have proven collagen is being de-natured for some detoxification, with that. Maybe try it with a week of Creatine loading and higher egg yolk intake (for choline and gut junction tightening) so you can get more collagen to where the issues are, in the correct amino acid ratios for repair.
Even poisoning can trigger the cannibalising reaction and make your joints, ligaments or tendons hurt. If the choice for body is die within 24 hours or mug/steal from all the glycine rich tissues to mobilise liver detox pathways, you can bet you'll survive. And.... you'll hurt badly later when you lift something or 'bend wrong' or sneeze.
It's not the poison attacking joints or tendons, but it is the foundational reason for the later pain or weakness. This is why I think the collagen working better while fasting is important to note.
Hope this helps! And, thanks @yerrag for the sulphur info input, another piece of the puzzle highlighted!
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