1.5ish years of PM eating & now I'm seemingly pre-diabetic...

[InChristAlone]

I'm for sure carb dominant in my eating usually going quiet a bit over the standard Cronometer carb setting & always hit that level mid-day.

Hit my protein amounts by end of day but never really go over that.


I'd be pretty shocked if suddenly I have high morning cortisol, less than a few week ago my morning/noon/night cortisol levels are perfect.

It's an area that I've really been hyper focusing on for almost 2 years now since I was in severe burnout. I sleep perfectly & wake up rested ready to go about my day.

Also, I don't have the tinnitus that always accompanied my high cortisol levels in the past.

But I'll for sure keep that in mind.


I'm not eating high protein though. Adding in the pine pollen & the tiny amount of Andro actually really helped me feel energetic (not stimulated though) & less overwhelmed by the sheer amount of things I have to get done in a day.

My T levels are really low & as a woman that's hard to get help for/read much about.

I have stopped them though just for the sake of seeing if that is the culprit as others have said it might actually be dropping my cortisol too low.

What do the macros come out to? I never go by standards set by cronometer. Peat recommends at least 2:1 carbs to protein. How many calories per day?

I totally get the burnout stuff I've been through it as well, I never got labs done though because I didn't want to go down dead end roads. When I was at my worst I was seeing the worst blood sugar numbers as in shooting up or barely budging up from 90. Sometimes healing causes some erratic numbers as well. So if your cortisol is perfect it's possible that other things are trying to level out. Which in my opinion can cause the reactive stuff. You see it often in eating disorder recovery. Some develop diabetes on their road to recovery. But that is better than dying of heart failure! The body will always do it's best with what it is given.

 

[BRBsavinWorld]

Yeah maple syrup is loaded down with potassium, b vits, even decent magnesium amounts.

nice :) if only I could tolerate it... I got the good stuff as a kid, but lost all tolerance after keto. but not to detract from the thread... hope you find a solution!

 

[Makrosky]

Agree to disagree, I'm not sure how you'd even take less than .3-.4 mg though...

Anyhow, I did look into it, it seems that it for sure can cause hypoglycemic especially if people take it while already undereating.

It looks like it primarily causes that issue while being on it & it looks like it typically happens from larger doses.

It is kinda interesting that this didn't happen to me while consistently taking it but began months after no longer using it consistently.

I'll continue reading about it.

The first times I took cypro, 0.5mg (1 pill divided by 8) would knock me down completely and left me zombie for 1 or 2 days. Multiple experiences like that on the forum also. That's why I say it is not a microdose. IIRC Ray doesn't recommend more than 1mg for more than a few weeks or something similar. So half of it is not a microdose :)

 

[mcmurv]

Haven't gone through all the posts, but after a lot, no one commented on the bee pollen. it massively cranked up my metabolism the one time I was taking it. Would recommend cutting back at least that for at least 2 weeks to see what happens.

 

[I'm.No.One]

Haven't gone through all the posts, but after a lot, no one commented on the bee pollen. it massively cranked up my metabolism the one time I was taking it. Would recommend cutting back at least that for at least 2 weeks to see what happens.

Ya know I actually switched from standard bee pollen to the pollen/propolis/royal jelly blend recently because that's all they had wonder if that's a culprit?

I had been taking bee pollen for a long while though, like over a year (I don't tolerate isolated B vits well) so I'd be more suspicious of the new one.

What a crazy reaction that would be!

 

[I'm.No.One]

The first times I took cypro, 0.5mg (1 pill divided by 8) would knock me down completely and left me zombie for 1 or 2 days. Multiple experiences like that on the forum also. That's why I say it is not a microdose. IIRC Ray doesn't recommend more than 1mg for more than a few weeks or something similar. So half of it is not a microdose :)

Yeah I guess I just considered it microdosing because I'm not taking it internally so .5 dropped on the skin isn't absorbed fully versus taking .5 orally.

 

[I'm.No.One]

Haven't gone through all the posts, but after a lot, no one commented on the bee pollen. it massively cranked up my metabolism the one time I was taking it. Would recommend cutting back at least that for at least 2 weeks to see what happens.

Ya know I actually switched from standard bee pollen to the pollen/propolis/royal jelly blend recently because that's all they had wonder if that's a culprit?

I had been taking bee pollen for a long while though, like over a year (I don't tolerate isolated B vits well) so I'd be more suspicious of the new one.

What a crazy reaction that would be!

Adding to this, I think this is a really good lead to follow.

Looks like both propolis/royal jelly can drastically reduce blood glucose levels!

I had just switched to this blend about a week ago when it all started.

Effects of Bee Propolis on FBG, HbA1c, and Insulin Resistance in Healthy Volunteers

Bee propolis is a natural substance that is used in traditional medicine due to its versatile pharmacological actions. This study evaluates whether short term use of bee propolis supplementation could have an impact on glycemic control in healthy individuals.A ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Effectiveness of royal jelly supplementation in glycemic regulation: A systematic review

Royal jelly (RJ) has been observed to have therapeutic properties in diabetic individuals, including the reduction of high blood sugar. This systematic review synthesized existing evidence to investigate the effectiveness of RJ supplementation in managing ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Wondering how long it would take for this to reverse if it is the cause & if there's anything I can do to help that along?

 

[Blossom]

@I’m.Nne
I find calorie breakdown around 40% carbs/30% protein/30% fat to be really helpful for keeping blood sugar stable when recovering from an undernourished state.
It doesn’t really sound like your problem though since you’ve been doing well for quite some time. The bee pollen angle seems more plausible to me.

 

[Summer]

What is “PM eating”? Eating at night?

 

[Korven]

What is “PM eating”? Eating at night?

Pro Metabolic (I assume)

Or Post Meridiem

Or Particulate Matter

Or Private Message

Okay I'm going

 

[Summer]

Pro Metabolic (I assume)

Or Post Meridiem

Or Particulate Matter

Or Private Message

Okay I'm going

I’m going with pro metabolic hahah. Thanks.

Honestly OP, I’m thinking it could boil down to going too heavy on mixing fats and carbs.

 

[Callmestar]

A lot of Dr Peats advice I value, some of it, i'm not so sure about. Pro metabolic eating sounds great and probably is if you already have a metabolism that's functioning well. But if your metabolism is tanked, I think it's a delicate balance. Eating tons of high sugar foods or drinking lots of orange juice, as well as milk and cheese, is probably going to cause problems to those not already functioning well metabolically. I tried it, initially I felt I had a bit more energy, but I got fat, my cholesterol rose ridiculously high, and my health if anything got worse. I still believe in many of the principles but with my health already being poor and metabolism being tanked, I know I probably need to ramp things up more gradually with foods that are densely nutritious but also not massively high in sugar, so starchy carbs along side good organ type meats, while holding off on masses of higher sugar juice and cheese/fatty foods until my metabolism has reached a better position.

 

[I'm.No.One]

@I’m.Nne
I find calorie breakdown around 40% carbs/30% protein/30% fat to be really helpful for keeping blood sugar stable when recovering from an undernourished state.
It doesn’t really sound like your problem though since you’ve been doing well for quite some time. The bee pollen angle seems more plausible to me.

That's about where I'm at actually.

Yeah the new bee pollen blend is the only thing I've changed/that's new & it really correlates, it's been a few days since I've taken it so I'm hopeful in a few more days things will even out.

It's really taken all of the life out of me though! I couldn't imagine walking through life feeling this as "normal".

 

[I'm.No.One]

A lot of Dr Peats advice I value, some of it, i'm not so sure about. Pro metabolic eating sounds great and probably is if you already have a metabolism that's functioning well. But if your metabolism is tanked, I think it's a delicate balance. Eating tons of high sugar foods or drinking lots of orange juice, as well as milk and cheese, is probably going to cause problems to those not already functioning well metabolically. I tried it, initially I felt I had a bit more energy, but I got fat, my cholesterol rose ridiculously high, and my health if anything got worse. I still believe in many of the principles but with my health already being poor and metabolism being tanked, I know I probably need to ramp things up more gradually with foods that are densely nutritious but also not massively high in sugar, so starchy carbs along side good organ type meats, while holding off on masses of higher sugar juice and cheese/fatty foods until my metabolism has reached a better position.

I am definitely 100x healthier than I was when I started but yeah I agree there's probably a delicate balance there where helpful can slip into harmful. I really needed to gain weight that's for sure.

Until this random "you're suddenly diabetic" I had come a really long ways/was feeling great & was shifting my focus/mindfully & slowly beginning to eat for stabilizing versus gaining.

 

[I'm.No.One]

I’m going with pro metabolic hahah. Thanks.

Honestly OP, I’m thinking it could boil down to going too heavy on mixing fats and carbs.

Seems like if it was it would have showed up as a reaction much sooner, but I guess anything is possible.

However, the only thing I've changed in the last week or so that this has shown up is the new blended bee pollen/propolis/royal jelly supplement. Probably worth exploring this for a while before I potentially face the fact that I've become hypoglycemic at best & fully type 2 diabetic at worst.

 

[Peater]

Have you tried Brewer's Yeast for the B vits and chromium?

 

[tallglass13]

I would definitely get a Hemoglobin AIC before you jump to much more conclusions. If your HgbAIC is like 5.3%, you are totally fine. So many factors can go into a blood sugar test/prick. Make sure you finger is totally cleaned and free from any maple syrup, haha. Seriously though, I bet you Hgb AIC is very normal. However, you may want to scrutinize your fat intake. Saturated animal fats are still fatty acids that block the actions of insulin, and a bit too much fat with sugar will affect the Randle cycle. Although Saturated fats are better than Pufa or Mufa, they are still fat, and block insulins actions. You can never go too lean on the meat. Use less fat to lubricate your pans.

 

[daveoutside]

Female, 36, 5'4, 132 lbs, very active farm life, 2500-3000 calories daily, carb heavy.

Came to PM eating from a pretty low/learned calorie intake, was about 98lbs when I began PM eating.

Never restricted carbs, fat, meat, just didn't eat enough consistent meals except dinner.

I'd say I'm only, from visual appearance of my body, 5-8 lbs overweight, but after a lifetime of basically being a walking bag of bones I figure it will take my body time to feel safe enough to let go of that.

I have however plateaued & do not continue to gain weight.

Sups:

325mg Aspirin
Thorne Vit k
Vit E
Cypro 1-3 x a week as needed.
Bee pollen
Pine pollen (I have low T)
Ideal labs androgens 1-2 drops cycled with my cycle.
Occasionally MB

The last week or so I had been having kinda out of the blue overwhelming waves of emotion & just feeling suddenly off so I went & bought a glucose meter.

The first time I tested I was in the 20 range, dangerous as hell.

I thought it might have been from taking double aspirin that morning coupled with a somewhat smaller than normal breakfast.

I stopped taking aspirin.

Thinking I was hypoglycemic from it + maybe not enough protein alongside the fruit I had for breakfast the next day I had more starch/protein.

Before I even got hungry in the afternoon my blood sugar dangerously plummeted again.

So I started tracking morning levels/after meals/whenever I feel off for the last week.

This morning my fasting blood sugar is 120, yesterday it was 140... This indicates pre-diabetic or outright diabetes.

I will add that I go hypo rapidly & often no matter how much I'm eating then it skyrockets back up & my ears start ringing.

My diet typically looks like:

Fruits
Meats
Cheese
OJ
Potatoes
More cheese
Ample raw goats milk
Maple syrup
Honey
Rice
Eggs
Animal fats for cooking
Sourdough bread when I make it
Pasta when I make it

I'm pretty mindful about pairing these all in the PM fashion carbs/protein.

This feels pretty devastating to be honest.

I had JUST got my body back from severe burnout, finally had good cortisol levels, was really staring to feel good with genuine energy returning.

Then BAM this hits me, and it really did just hit me. I'd never had these symptoms before.

Ideas? Experience?

Sometimes you need to take a break from food. Have you ever fasted for 24 or 36 hours?

 

[I'm.No.One]

Have you tried Brewer's Yeast for the B vits and chromium?

I have, it gives me bad reactions mainly agitating my GABA receptors (I was on benzos for a decade) which leads to painful burning on my ears. Honestly plain bee pollen has been the only thing supplement wise for b vits I've been able to tolerate. I believe it was the new mix that might be the problem.

Sometimes you need to take a break from food. Have you ever fasted for 24 or 36 hours?

I fast for 8-9 hours every 24 hours when I sleep.

But I'm pretty sure trying a fast when my blood sugar is dropping dangerously low isn't sounds advice haha.

 

[I'm.No.One]

I would definitely get a Hemoglobin AIC before you jump to much more conclusions. If your HgbAIC is like 5.3%, you are totally fine. So many factors can go into a blood sugar test/prick. Make sure you finger is totally cleaned and free from any maple syrup, haha. Seriously though, I bet you Hgb AIC is very normal. However, you may want to scrutinize your fat intake. Saturated animal fats are still fatty acids that block the actions of insulin, and a bit too much fat with sugar will affect the Randle cycle. Although Saturated fats are better than Pufa or Mufa, they are still fat, and block insulins actions. You can never go too lean on the meat. Use less fat to lubricate your pans.

I'll see if I can get the one clinic we have access to to run that test for me. They're... Pretty useless unless they think you're ill enough to treat.