Anyone ever cured severe dysbiosis with bifido bacteria?

[dogtrainer]

Almost 4 years of gut issues now, I have periods of improvement but never longer than a few months.

From year 1 to present, I am able to pass more gas rather it just getting stuck/feeling bloated. If I have extreme bloating i am usually able to pass gas with herbal supplements, where before I would be stuck in an extremely bloated state for 8-10 excruciating hours.

But still, extremely limited diet, I have only 1 or 2 foods that I do well on, and even then sometimes meat bloats me.

I’ve tried allllllll of the antimicrobial approaches, for four years. 6 rounds of rifaxamin. Only antibiotics I haven’t tried are neomycin. I won’t take metronidazole or ciprofloxacin.

I won’t say that antimicrobial approaches haven’t worked. It’s that they baaaarely work after long hard rounds and I am still limited to 2 foods at the end of it. Perhaps I haven’t done them long enough, but it’s been four years of trying to kill the dysbiosis and I have still ridiculous amounts of gas and bloating even on what should be a zero fermentation diet - meat and fruit juice.

I think some of the microbes causing my issues are proteobacteria.

I have four overgrowths according to a stool test:

Bacillus spp
Streptococcus aureus
Staphylococcus
Pseudomonas spp

Never gotten a SIBO test, but I assume I have it based on the burping.

I assume I have low stomach acid. Lots of pressure and fullness with meat that isn’t remedied by either HCL or high dose digestive enzymes.

I am hypothyroid and on 50mcg Tirosint and 25 mcg T3. My thyroid is barely over the ranges and my doc is really conservative about raising it.

Potential Solutions

Low protein diet -> remove substrate from protein fermenting bacteria

besides making me feel like ***t, this hasn’t worked. There aren’t enough foods I can tolerate. Very few fruits and vegetables are tolerated due to the fiber.

I have tried juice fasting (orange juice, coconut water, pineapple juice) and I still get bloated. It also makes me unable to poo due to the complete lack of bulk.

Low Carb > I did this almost my entire 20s and I think it caused my thyroid problem that earned me the overgrowths in the first place. I would do it if it worked. It doesn’t anymore. Gas and bloating from a plain steak. Gas and bloating from, you guessed it, bone broth.

Just eat what you crave and stop being orthorexic -> this isn’t a bad idea. The problem is, this has caused me massive physical pain every time I have tried to stray even a toe out of line. Ate an orange instead of pulp free OJ? Massive bloating.

Ate two raspberries? Massive bloating.
Barbecue sauce on wings? Massive bloating.

At this point, it’s severely restrict my diet and maintain a level 4-5 out of 10 quality of life some days, or eat slightly outside my safe foods and immediately drop to a 1-2 quality of life most days. The experiment of trying to expand the diet has gone horrifically bad even with literal bites of foods. A bite of rice is guaranteed to put me on my **** for the next three days.

At this point the only thing I haven’t tried with vigor is using other bacteria to kill the bacillus, strep, staph, and pseudomonas in my gut. To be honest I don’t think it will work, or we would have heard about it. I had a brief excursion into BB536 yogurt a couple years ago but improvements were minimal if any.

But I thought it’s worth it to ask one more time here.

Has anyone used bacteria to kill bacteria?

I’m looking at B. Subtilis due to its antibiotic properties. But with a Bacillus overgrowth already overtaking, is this a good idea?

What about the bifido species? I recently tried a 1/4 teaspoon of b. infantis and I was horrifically bloated for 2 days. Worth it to press forward? Will it damage me? They give it to infants so it can’t be that bad right?

What about l.reuteri and it’s lovely reuterin? Likely to help me?

Any experience with probiotics in this forum?

 

[L_C]

From what I understand bacteria thrives in iron rich environment. Hence, be careful with meat (iron) or have it with milk/calcium. Would be good to have iron test. Yes, overload of fermented foods can cause sibo.

Carrot salad helps with bacteria.

I also would like to know if megaspore probiotics can help with sibo like this one. Maybe somebody can chime in on that.

MegaSporeBiotic™ - 60 Capsules

 

[Vileplume]

I read the accounts of @Advocate2021, who had very positive things to say about megasporebiotic and other products from that company. @L_C

I myself have not tried them, because I have tried more to experiment with the Ray Peat recommended antibiotic-type foods (bamboo shoots, carrots, white button mushrooms), but I would recommend reading what she wrote about megasporebiotic.

 

[Perry Staltic]

Bacillus spp and Pseudomonas spp don't tell you anything. There are good bacillus species.

 

[dogtrainer]

From what I understand bacteria thrives in iron rich environment. Hence, be careful with meat (iron) or have it with milk/calcium. Would be good to have iron test. Yes, overload of fermented foods can cause sibo.

Carrot salad helps with bacteria.

I also would like to know if megaspore probiotics can help with sibo like this one. Maybe somebody can chime in on that.

MegaSporeBiotic™ - 60 Capsules

Yeah I’ve heard that too. Lactoferrin was one of the things that seemed to help.

I took megaspore a long **** time ago during my first foray into alt health with a kind of scammy practicioner who I’m sure got handsome kickbacks for prescribing it.

 

[dogtrainer]

Bacillus spp and Pseudomonas spp don't tell you anything. There are good bacillus species.

Fair enough. What do you think is causing my issues. Just too damn many of them?

 

[Perry Staltic]

Fair enough. What do you think is causing my issues. Just too damn many of them?

I don't know. I don't understand bloating. I've never had it. And I don't understand how it happens. The gut is an open ended pipe, and increasing gas should just go out the open end, but it doesn't for some reason. Maybe there are some kind of gut motility issues that aren't working right and preventing that from happening. I do a lot of probiotics, even some of the ones you mentioned. My gut seems pretty happy right now, but other than bacillus coagulens I can't tell you which have the most noticeable effects.

 

[dogtrainer]

I don't know. I don't understand bloating. I've never had it. And I don't understand how it happens. The gut is an open ended pipe, and increasing gas should just go out the open end, but it doesn't for some reason. Maybe there are some kind of gut motility issues that aren't working right and preventing that from happening. I do a lot of probiotics, even some of the ones you mentioned. My gut seems pretty happy right now, but other than bacillus coagulens I can't tell you which have the most noticeable effects.

Well when the gas pressure increases to a certain point, the contractile function of the muscle is decreased. Your intestine will struggle to contract around a 4 inch gas pocket. Compounding the issue is mineral status, energetic state of the tissue, inflammation (or lack thereof) etc.

Additionally, if the gas occurs in the small intestine, it tends to get stuck. The small intestine is smaller and less expandable than the colon.

The unfortunate truth for me is that the intestine isn’t an open ended pipe operating by the laws of gravity. How nice that would be. It’s a living tissue and susceptible to the problems of life (infection, inflammation, stress, etc).

You are right, though, increased motility would solve it and prevent the bacteria from colonizing in the first place.

 

[Perry Staltic]

You are right, though, increased motility would solve it and prevent the bacteria from colonizing in the first place.

Serotonin is demonized around here, but that's what regulates gut motility. Bacteria are also demonized, but they can do lots of good stuff including crosstalk with serotonin.

 

[dogtrainer]

Serotonin is demonized around here, but that's what regulates gut motility. Bacteria are also demonized, but they can do lots of good stuff including crosstalk with serotonin.

I have a prucalopride prescription and it definitely works. There’s a big SIBO doctor who says you can cure all SIBO with a low dose prucalopride pill and no antibiotics.

I’ve been resistant to take it given it’s a 5HT4 agonist.

I don’t want to be on anything for ever but maybe this is just my option at this point

 

[Perry Staltic]

I have a prucalopride prescription and it definitely works. There’s a big SIBO doctor who says you can cure all SIBO with a low dose prucalopride pill and no antibiotics.

I’ve been resistant to take it given it’s a 5HT4 agonist.

I don’t want to be on anything for ever but maybe this is just my option at this point

Yeah I'd be hesitant too and looking at every possible natural solution first.

 

[Perry Staltic]

Yeah I'd be hesitant too and looking at every possible natural solution first.

Have you tried ginger yet?

 

[dogtrainer]

Have you tried ginger yet?

Yes. I order it by the case and take 10-20 pills every day in addition to ginger tea. It helps - sometimes.

 

[Vileplume]

Yes. I order it by the case and take 10-20 pills every day in addition to ginger tea. It helps - sometimes.

Do you measure your HRV? It provides a glimpse into the body's autonomic function, in that low HRV indicates some sort of autonomic dysfunction, which often accompanies abdominal pain or digestive problems. Endotoxin (lipopolysaccharide) has even been shown to directly decrease HRV. But these two studies found that intentionally increasing HRV through controlled slow breathing attenuated the digestive symptoms, and abdominal pain.

Restoration of vagal tone: a possible mechanism for functional abdominal pain

Children with Functional Abdominal Pain (FAP) participated in 6 sessions of HRV biofeedback aimed at normalizing autonomic balance. At baseline, children with FAP appear to have more autonomic dysregulation than children without FAP. After completing HRV biofeedback, the FAP group was able to significantly reduce their symptoms in relation to significantly increasing their autonomic balance. In a sample of children with FAP, it appears that HRV biofeedback treatment improved their symptoms and that a change in vagal tone was a potential mediator for this improvement.

Voluntarily produced increases in heart rate variability modulate autonomic effects of endotoxin induced systemic inflammation: an exploratory study

The HRV BF group showed significant attenuation of the LPS-induced decline in HRV for the 6 h following LPS exposure, suggesting that HRV BF decreased autonomic dysfunction produced by LPS-induced inflammation. HRV BF also reduced symptoms of headache and eye sensitivity to light, but did not affect LPS-induced levels of pro-inflammatory cytokines or symptoms of nausea, muscle aches, or feverishness.

 

[Perry Staltic]

Yes. I order it by the case and take 10-20 pills every day in addition to ginger tea. It helps - sometimes.

Since gut motility is an autonomous nervous system issue thiamine would be my next guess. Getting enough?

 

[dogtrainer]

I

Since gut motility is an autonomous nervous system issue thiamine would be my next guess. Getting enough?

i eat a lot of thiamine daily. 1000mg usually

 

[Vins7]

Serotonin is demonized around here, but that's what regulates gut motility. Bacteria are also demonized, but they can do lots of good stuff including crosstalk with serotonin.

Yes, I have low motility and a complete gut flora test has shown that my serotonin and dopamine are low and gaba and histamine are high, all due tu my gut disbiosis.

 

[TheBeard]

Almost 4 years of gut issues now, I have periods of improvement but never longer than a few months.

From year 1 to present, I am able to pass more gas rather it just getting stuck/feeling bloated. If I have extreme bloating i am usually able to pass gas with herbal supplements, where before I would be stuck in an extremely bloated state for 8-10 excruciating hours.

But still, extremely limited diet, I have only 1 or 2 foods that I do well on, and even then sometimes meat bloats me.

I’ve tried allllllll of the antimicrobial approaches, for four years. 6 rounds of rifaxamin. Only antibiotics I haven’t tried are neomycin. I won’t take metronidazole or ciprofloxacin.

I won’t say that antimicrobial approaches haven’t worked. It’s that they baaaarely work after long hard rounds and I am still limited to 2 foods at the end of it. Perhaps I haven’t done them long enough, but it’s been four years of trying to kill the dysbiosis and I have still ridiculous amounts of gas and bloating even on what should be a zero fermentation diet - meat and fruit juice.

I think some of the microbes causing my issues are proteobacteria.

I have four overgrowths according to a stool test:

Bacillus spp
Streptococcus aureus
Staphylococcus
Pseudomonas spp

Never gotten a SIBO test, but I assume I have it based on the burping.

I assume I have low stomach acid. Lots of pressure and fullness with meat that isn’t remedied by either HCL or high dose digestive enzymes.

I am hypothyroid and on 50mcg Tirosint and 25 mcg T3. My thyroid is barely over the ranges and my doc is really conservative about raising it.

Potential Solutions

Low protein diet -> remove substrate from protein fermenting bacteria

besides making me feel like ***t, this hasn’t worked. There aren’t enough foods I can tolerate. Very few fruits and vegetables are tolerated due to the fiber.

I have tried juice fasting (orange juice, coconut water, pineapple juice) and I still get bloated. It also makes me unable to poo due to the complete lack of bulk.

Low Carb > I did this almost my entire 20s and I think it caused my thyroid problem that earned me the overgrowths in the first place. I would do it if it worked. It doesn’t anymore. Gas and bloating from a plain steak. Gas and bloating from, you guessed it, bone broth.

Just eat what you crave and stop being orthorexic -> this isn’t a bad idea. The problem is, this has caused me massive physical pain every time I have tried to stray even a toe out of line. Ate an orange instead of pulp free OJ? Massive bloating.

Ate two raspberries? Massive bloating.
Barbecue sauce on wings? Massive bloating.

At this point, it’s severely restrict my diet and maintain a level 4-5 out of 10 quality of life some days, or eat slightly outside my safe foods and immediately drop to a 1-2 quality of life most days. The experiment of trying to expand the diet has gone horrifically bad even with literal bites of foods. A bite of rice is guaranteed to put me on my **** for the next three days.

At this point the only thing I haven’t tried with vigor is using other bacteria to kill the bacillus, strep, staph, and pseudomonas in my gut. To be honest I don’t think it will work, or we would have heard about it. I had a brief excursion into BB536 yogurt a couple years ago but improvements were minimal if any.

But I thought it’s worth it to ask one more time here.

Has anyone used bacteria to kill bacteria?

I’m looking at B. Subtilis due to its antibiotic properties. But with a Bacillus overgrowth already overtaking, is this a good idea?

What about the bifido species? I recently tried a 1/4 teaspoon of b. infantis and I was horrifically bloated for 2 days. Worth it to press forward? Will it damage me? They give it to infants so it can’t be that bad right?

What about l.reuteri and it’s lovely reuterin? Likely to help me?

Any experience with probiotics in this forum?

You will never cure dysbiosis with the introduction of bacteria.
If that were the case, they would have settled in your gut long ago and solved your issues.

The issue is heavy metals preventing that ecosystem getting back into place.
You need to chelate mercury and aluminum.

The only two chelators that work are ALA and OSR.

Until you do, your gut issues will remain.

 

[Vins7]

You will never cure dysbiosis with the introduction of bacteria.
If that were the case, they would have settled in your gut long ago and solved your issues.

The issue is heavy metals preventing that ecosystem getting back into place.
You need to chelate mercury and aluminum.

The only two chelators that work are ALA and OSR.

Until you do, your gut issues will remain.

So, have you fixed your gut issues?

 

[Sumbody]

From what I understand bacteria thrives in iron rich environment. Hence, be careful with meat (iron) or have it with milk/calcium. Would be good to have iron test. Yes, overload of fermented foods can cause sibo.

Carrot salad helps with bacteria.

I also would like to know if megaspore probiotics can help with sibo like this one. Maybe somebody can chime in on that.

MegaSporeBiotic™ - 60 Capsules

I have taken this and still have some lying around.

Noticed no difference. I get extreme bloating and gas as well and tried antimicrobial, antifungal and pro and prebiotics with no results.

But perhaps I never stuck with one thing long enough.