Caffeine pills for weight loss --> extreme acid reflux

Elie

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First of all much love to Ray. May his departed soul be blessed and may his soul bless us all.

Now, Has this happened to anyone else?
I am 50 now and have been gaining weight gradually since my mid / late 30s
Currently 225 lb., 5'10"
I try to avoid extreme diets and the most I have lost was 4lb or so on the "croissant diet".
as a health practitioner my clients often report weight loss, but I have been stuck for years, and have been following Ray's principles for about 10 years.

Recently I revisited a couple of post on Caffeine and decided to try higher amount (up to 1200 mg)

Took caffeine pills twice for 1-2 days (in addition to other caffeine sources, but a total of less than 1200).
On both occasions had major and very uncomfortable acid reflux and significantly increased BM
On both occasions list 3-4 lb. very quickly
On both occasions, once discontinued the caffeine pills the GI discomfort subsided within a couple of days.

By the way, diet generally consists mostly of fruit, cheese (gouda, cheddar - up to 120 g), 2 eggs, 1-2 slices of sour dough rye, cooked root veggies, a bit of raw veggies (radishes, carrots, fennel).

Would love to receive insights and shared experiences re use of caffeine and regarding the things I experienced.

thanks.
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
21,516
First of all much love to Ray. May his departed soul be blessed and may his soul bless us all.

Now, Has this happened to anyone else?
I am 50 now and have been gaining weight gradually since my mid / late 30s
Currently 225 lb., 5'10"
I try to avoid extreme diets and the most I have lost was 4lb or so on the "croissant diet".
as a health practitioner my clients often report weight loss, but I have been stuck for years, and have been following Ray's principles for about 10 years.

Recently I revisited a couple of post on Caffeine and decided to try higher amount (up to 1200 mg)

Took caffeine pills twice for 1-2 days (in addition to other caffeine sources, but a total of less than 1200).
On both occasions had major and very uncomfortable acid reflux and significantly increased BM
On both occasions list 3-4 lb. very quickly
On both occasions, once discontinued the caffeine pills the GI discomfort subsided within a couple of days.

By the way, diet generally consists mostly of fruit, cheese (gouda, cheddar - up to 120 g), 2 eggs, 1-2 slices of sour dough rye, cooked root veggies, a bit of raw veggies (radishes, carrots, fennel).

Would love to receive insights and shared experiences re use of caffeine and regarding the things I experienced.

thanks.
I haven’t taken caffeine pills, but I did take the Slim Quick pills 15+ years ago, which has caffeine in it. If you want to lose FAT I would suggest getting rid of the sourdough and replace it with protein. I have lost weight successfully every which way and even on croissants, potato fasts and the lemonade diet. You will lose pounds, but a lot of it is gonna be muscle too. You don’t want to end up skinny fat. Protein is key, and calcium. and honey for me. Maybe get some instant coffee like this one I love, and put a teaspoon in a half cup of milk shoot it down, rather than the pills, this is what I do, and this should help buffer against the acid reflux.
 

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FrostedShores

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Do you supplement with magnesium? What's your sodium intake? I take caffeine pills every day, and I find as long as I get plenty of electrolytes, I avoid any kind of digestive upset. Also, I only take the pills with food; never on an empty stomach.
 

Vinny

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First of all much love to Ray. May his departed soul be blessed and may his soul bless us all.

Now, Has this happened to anyone else?
I am 50 now and have been gaining weight gradually since my mid / late 30s
Currently 225 lb., 5'10"
I try to avoid extreme diets and the most I have lost was 4lb or so on the "croissant diet".
as a health practitioner my clients often report weight loss, but I have been stuck for years, and have been following Ray's principles for about 10 years.

Recently I revisited a couple of post on Caffeine and decided to try higher amount (up to 1200 mg)

Took caffeine pills twice for 1-2 days (in addition to other caffeine sources, but a total of less than 1200).
On both occasions had major and very uncomfortable acid reflux and significantly increased BM
On both occasions list 3-4 lb. very quickly
On both occasions, once discontinued the caffeine pills the subsided within a couple of days.

By the way, diet generally consists mostly of fruit, cheese (gouda, cheddar - up to 120 g), 2 eggs, 1-2 slices of sour dough rye, cooked root veggies, a bit of raw veggies (radishes, carrots, fennel).

Would love to receive insights and shared experiences re use of caffeine and regarding the things I experienced.

thanks.
My two pesos:
I`m also 50, fat gain became incontrollable at around age of 45. For this reason, about 3 years ago had a nervous breakdown and even posted here out of desperation. Managed to lose some adipose since, now hovering around 30 BMI and it doesn`t go down no matter what. It will hardly get any better, believe me, we can only maintain descent level with a lot of caution and dedication, to the rest of our lives.

Took caffeine, yes, in doses much smaller than you, but even so it causes me major GI discomfort (which also subsided within a couple of days) that is why discontinued it. Good stuff, but not for everyone.

Totally resonate with @Rinse & rePeat to get rid of the sourdough and alike, and replace it with protein. I definitely put fat from wheat, for example. Now trying niacinamide, I don`t believe it will make an difference, but we`ll see.....
 

Peatful

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diet generally consists mostly of fruit, cheese (gouda, cheddar - up to 120 g), 2 eggs, 1-2 slices of sour dough rye, cooked root veggies, a bit of raw veggies (radishes, carrots, fennel).
You’re eating this and you weigh 225 pounds.

Think about it.

What do you think is going on?

Im not being snarky.
Im sincerely trying to point out the obvious.



Im talking about your metabolic health.
Disregard my comment if you simply want to problem solve the caffeine pill thing.
 

Hans

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First of all much love to Ray. May his departed soul be blessed and may his soul bless us all.

Now, Has this happened to anyone else?
I am 50 now and have been gaining weight gradually since my mid / late 30s
Currently 225 lb., 5'10"
I try to avoid extreme diets and the most I have lost was 4lb or so on the "croissant diet".
as a health practitioner my clients often report weight loss, but I have been stuck for years, and have been following Ray's principles for about 10 years.

Recently I revisited a couple of post on Caffeine and decided to try higher amount (up to 1200 mg)

Took caffeine pills twice for 1-2 days (in addition to other caffeine sources, but a total of less than 1200).
On both occasions had major and very uncomfortable acid reflux and significantly increased BM
On both occasions list 3-4 lb. very quickly
On both occasions, once discontinued the caffeine pills the GI discomfort subsided within a couple of days.

By the way, diet generally consists mostly of fruit, cheese (gouda, cheddar - up to 120 g), 2 eggs, 1-2 slices of sour dough rye, cooked root veggies, a bit of raw veggies (radishes, carrots, fennel).

Would love to receive insights and shared experiences re use of caffeine and regarding the things I experienced.

thanks.
Calories in calories out does matter. It just matters how you implement it. The "tricky" part is figuring out how to maximize energy, satiety and sleep while in a deficit. Many people have success with a high protein, high fat approach (such as keto or carnivore) for satiety and energy. I personally feel best with more fat in my diet in terms of satiety, but if my carbs go too low, my energy isn't as great. It's about finding that balance for satiety and energy, so you'll have to play around with macros and different foods to see what works for you. In general, high-satiating foods include red meat (beef, lamb, etc.), eggs and fish. Then add in carbs that give you good smooth energy.
 

xeliex

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Elie, we were thought in school that caffeine has a relaxing effect on all the body's sphincters / valves. That includes the upper esophageal sphincter, facilitating the reflux of acid back up. The relaxation of the lower sphincters will tend to make one go to the bathroom too. What you are experiencing seems to be what we studied in the textbook.

Let me know if you figure out ther weight loss. My health has improved greatly but I keep getting fatter...

Elie
 
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Elie

Elie

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@Rinse & rePeat, I like the idea of mixing instant coffee in milk. will give it a try. I try to eat enough cheese to get calcium. Honey - I can't stay consistent, cause I only can handle so much (taste wise). As for the protein - I gained also on 80 - 100 g of protein a day. At 50, i wonder if I ought to follow Ray's more recent recommendations to lower protein intake. Plus, carbs are supposed to spare protein.

@Peatful and @Vinny I am not sure how horrible the sour dough bread is. I have experimented with all kinds of combos over the years and I haven't noticed a direct relationship with or without. Not sure 2 slices will make or break it. I can certainly try without again and see what happens.

@ Vinney, hopefully your health is in decent shape. This was one thing I didn't mention. my health, overall got better. I haven't been getting as many colds and flues for example after going Peaty and energy has been high. I am pretty sure that life's stress packed on the fat on my body, so being depressed about this would make matters worse. Hope you can lighten up the depression mate. Maybe keep in mind that you are not your body. Hopefully we will crack the "code".

@Hans, Keeping a slight deficit was certainly easier on the "croissant" diet (more fat), but yes, energy levels weren't great. Also, while not strict this regard, i do prefer being vegetarian (keeping dairy and eggs). Lets see...
How big of an effect do you think supplementing with stuff that supports glucuronidation (cardamom, milk thistle, etc.) can have?

@xeliex, I wasn't aware of that. Although, in my case, as I mentioned, it seemed to be much more pronounced with caffeine pills, versus coffee. Are you also an "Elie"?


By the way, I noticed a post below by Nate, who seemed to succeed in this regard by having shrimp as a major source of protein + taurine. he says Taurine keeps water accumulation under control, and If I read correctly, he says water stimulated fat storage? is anyone familiar with mechanisms that describe how that happens?
 
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Elie

Elie

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Do you supplement with magnesium? What's your sodium intake? I take caffeine pills every day, and I find as long as I get plenty of electrolytes, I avoid any kind of digestive upset. Also, I only take the pills with food; never on an empty stomach.
Will give magnesium a try
 
Joined
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Messages
21,516
@Rinse & rePeat, I like the idea of mixing instant coffee in milk. will give it a try. I try to eat enough cheese to get calcium. Honey - I can't stay consistent, cause I only can handle so much (taste wise). As for the protein - I gained also on 80 - 100 g of protein a day. At 50, i wonder if I ought to follow Ray's more recent recommendations to lower protein intake. Plus, carbs are supposed to spare protein.

@Peatful and @Vinny I am not sure how horrible the sour dough bread is. I have experimented with all kinds of combos over the years and I haven't noticed a direct relationship with or without. Not sure 2 slices will make or break it. I can certainly try without again and see what happens.

@ Vinney, hopefully your health is in decent shape. This was one thing I didn't mention. my health, overall got better. I haven't been getting as many colds and flues for example after going Peaty and energy has been high. I am pretty sure that life's stress packed on the fat on my body, so being depressed about this would make matters worse. Hope you can lighten up the depression mate. Maybe keep in mind that you are not your body. Hopefully we will crack the "code".

@Hans, Keeping a slight deficit was certainly easier on the "croissant" diet (more fat), but yes, energy levels weren't great. Also, while not strict this regard, i do prefer being vegetarian (keeping dairy and eggs). Lets see...
How big of an effect do you think supplementing with stuff that supports glucuronidation (cardamom, milk thistle, etc.) can have?

@xeliex, I wasn't aware of that. Although, in my case, as I mentioned, it seemed to be much more pronounced with caffeine pills, versus coffee. Are you also an "Elie"?


By the way, I noticed a post below by Nate, who seemed to succeed in this regard by having shrimp as a major source of protein + taurine. he says Taurine keeps water accumulation under control, and If I read correctly, he says water stimulated fat storage? is anyone familiar with mechanisms that describe how that happens?
I believe that carbs are necessary for good health, but sugar sourced carbs are better for weight loss. The starchy carbs slow down digestion and slowing things down does not rev up things, plus wheat causes inflammation. Try switching to sprouted grains, they digest much faster and Ray Peat says sprouted is a more of a vegetable than a grain. If you are not active than too much protein is too much. I never lost weight too easily on red meat. I don’t really know why, but if you keep it in your rotation keep the potions small. A low-fat diet worked best for me and pairing food right is important too, pair proteins with a sugar source and sugars with proteins. Fat plus sugar/carb will create fat if you eat too much aka chips, bread and butter and such. What did your diet look like yesterday?
 

mostlylurking

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By the way, diet generally consists mostly of fruit, cheese (gouda, cheddar - up to 120 g), 2 eggs, 1-2 slices of sour dough rye, cooked root veggies, a bit of raw veggies (radishes, carrots, fennel).
I'd advise losing the sour dough bread. Gluten is really bad stuff. Are you eating your carrots raw? It's important to eat them raw, not cooked.
Would love to receive insights and shared experiences re use of caffeine and regarding the things I experienced.
"caffeine oral decreases levels of thiamine pyrophosphate oral by reducing drug absorption from the stomach and intestine into the body when taken by mouth. Coffee and tea have anti-thiamine activity."
-end-

Although it doesn't SAY that caffeine taken orally blocks thiamine function, what it does say makes me feel that it might.

Spring of 2020, I weighed 150 lbs. I packed on 25 pounds in 25 days when my thiamine function got blocked by taking Bactrim antibiotic, July of 2020. Although I got healthy again from taking high dose thiamine, that weight did not come off. The weight finally came off when I began taking a low dose (90mg) of niacinamide 4Xday. Previously I was taking about 200mg niacinamide 2Xday. Throughout all this I was eating the same Peaty high dairy, eggs, orange juice diet (no nuts, no seeds, no grains). I'm a 72 year old female. I got up to 175lbs from the Bactrim debacle; it's been two years since starting to recover via the high dose thiamine hcl and a year since starting the niacinamide 90mg 4Xday, I weigh 143 lbs now. I'm about 5'3".

Now trying niacinamide, I don`t believe it will make an difference, but we`ll see.....
Low dose niacinamide (90mg) taken 4Xday worked like a miracle for me. Taking about the same amount but split into two doses instead of four didn't help.
 
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Elie

Elie

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I believe that carbs are necessary for good health, but sugar sourced carbs are better for weight loss. The starchy carbs slow down digestion and slowing things down does not rev up things, plus wheat causes inflammation. Try switching to sprouted grains, they digest much faster and Ray Peat says sprouted is a more of a vegetable than a grain. If you are not active than too much protein is too much. I never lost weight too easily on red meat. I don’t really know why, but if you keep it in your rotation keep the potions small. A low-fat diet worked best for me and pairing food right is important too, pair proteins with a sugar source and sugars with proteins. Fat plus sugar/carb will create fat if you eat too much aka chips, bread and butter and such. What did your diet look like yesterday?
Appreciate your comments. I did follow a mostly OJ / Fruit and milk (or cottage cheese) diet for a long time and still didn't lose weight.
Paradoxically, the folks who succeed wit the "croissant" diet consume starch and fat.
I super appreciate you asking "what did your diet look like yesterday" - the mark of an actively engaged detective.

I don't remember everything, but from what I recall
morning
half a banana + about 40-50 g gouda cheese + apple
3 rice cakes (5g carbs ea) + about 5g butter on each
Later - banana cake my partner made from old bananas and oat flour
2 servings of coffee

Late lunch was a real treat, but I might disappoint you :)
I discovered my favorite type of pizza to date - Turkish "Pizza" type of a dish, called Pide - super yummy baked thin tasty crust (wheat) with cheddar cheese, goat cheese and spinach (generous servings)
Turkish Coffee

Evening - balance of that Pide
A couple of servings of what you suggested - half a cup of milk (2%) with instant coffee (and a tbsp sugar in ea serving)
A bit of apple cider and OJ

paradoxically I weighted 0.5 lb. lower this morning at 24.5 (always weigh myself at approx. the same time).

I will strive to limit wheat and continue with lots of coffee and incorporate @mostlylurking suggestion, after I seek out more clarification.
 
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Elie

Elie

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I'd advise losing the sour dough bread. Gluten is really bad stuff. Are you eating your carrots raw? It's important to eat them raw, not cooked.

"caffeine oral decreases levels of thiamine pyrophosphate oral by reducing drug absorption from the stomach and intestine into the body when taken by mouth. Coffee and tea have anti-thiamine activity."
-end-

Although it doesn't SAY that caffeine taken orally blocks thiamine function, what it does say makes me feel that it might.

Spring of 2020, I weighed 150 lbs. I packed on 25 pounds in 25 days when my thiamine function got blocked by taking Bactrim antibiotic, July of 2020. Although I got healthy again from taking high dose thiamine, that weight did not come off. The weight finally came off when I began taking a low dose (90mg) of niacinamide 4Xday. Previously I was taking about 200mg niacinamide 2Xday. Throughout all this I was eating the same Peaty high dairy, eggs, orange juice diet (no nuts, no seeds, no grains). I'm a 72 year old female. I got up to 175lbs from the Bactrim debacle; it's been two years since starting to recover via the high dose thiamine hcl and a year since starting the niacinamide 90mg 4Xday, I weigh 143 lbs now. I'm about 5'3".


Low dose niacinamide (90mg) taken 4Xday worked like a miracle for me. Taking about the same amount but split into two doses instead of four didn't help.
I think I recall you mentioned your niacinamide routine on a different post.
Any brand will do? although 90 mg per cap // tablet is not a common dose.

How much thiamin HCL are you taking? I recommend it often to my clients in the 100s of mg, but someone said recently it is poorly absorbed and suggested other forms.

I may be able to order a custom formula from a compounding lab I deal with (niacinamide 90mg, thiamin - HCL or benfothiamin (?mg)and perhaps other micronutrients as well).
Maybe Georgi's Energin could be a viable option. I will check it out.
 
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Appreciate your comments. I did follow a mostly OJ / Fruit and milk (or cottage cheese) diet for a long time and still didn't lose weight.
Paradoxically, the folks who succeed wit the "croissant" diet consume starch and fat.
I super appreciate you asking "what did your diet look like yesterday" - the mark of an actively engaged detective.

I don't remember everything, but from what I recall
morning
half a banana + about 40-50 g gouda cheese + apple
3 rice cakes (5g carbs ea) + about 5g butter on each
Later - banana cake my partner made from old bananas and oat flour
2 servings of coffee

Late lunch was a real treat, but I might disappoint you :)
I discovered my favorite type of pizza to date - Turkish "Pizza" type of a dish, called Pide - super yummy baked thin tasty crust (wheat) with cheddar cheese, goat cheese and spinach (generous servings)
Turkish Coffee

Evening - balance of that Pide
A couple of servings of what you suggested - half a cup of milk (2%) with instant coffee (and a tbsp sugar in ea serving)
A bit of apple cider and OJ

paradoxically I weighted 0.5 lb. lower this morning at 24.5 (always weigh myself at approx. the same time).

I will strive to limit wheat and continue with lots of coffee and incorporate @mostlylurking suggestion, after I seek out more clarification.
Ok Elie yesterday’s food was not only not enough calories, but would be a pure splurge day for me, without any easily usable protein to be had. Butter on three rice cakes is asking for weight gain. Ray Peat said carbs plus fat if not used up will most likely be stored as fat. I have done the croissant diet and you will surely see the scale go down, with your body breaking down your muscles to get it’s protein, leaving your legs and arms saggy and jiggly. It is called skinny fat. I think you need to report here today what you are eating today, cause what you just posted leaves no question in my mind why you are not losing FAT.
 
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Elie

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Ok Elie yesterday’s food was not only not enough calories, but would be a pure splurge day for me, without any easily usable protein to be had. Butter on three rice cakes is asking for weight gain. Ray Peat said carbs plus fat if not used up will most likely be stored as fat. I have done the croissant diet and you will surely see the scale go down, with your body breaking down your muscles to get it’s protein, leaving your legs and arms saggy and jiggly. It is called skinny fat. I think you need to report here today what you are eating today, cause what you just posted leaves no question in my mind why you are not losing FAT.
I forgot the eggs. I also eat 2 eggs every day.
I didn't feel hungry when i went to bed yesterday.

So just fruit, fruit juices and root veggies for carbs and cheese, eggs and milk for protein?
I have eaten that way for months on hand....
 

Vinny

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Low dose niacinamide (90mg) taken 4Xday worked like a miracle for me. Taking about the same amount but split into two doses instead of four didn't help.
I think you wrote this in another thread and I`m going to try it.
 

mostlylurking

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I think I recall you mentioned your niacinamide routine on a different post.
Any brand will do? although 90 mg per cap // tablet is not a common dose.
I take the pure powder niacinamide from bulksupplements.com. I weighed it out and found a tiny measuring spoon that held that amount. The dose I'm taking is about 90-100mg.
How much thiamin HCL are you taking? I recommend it often to my clients in the 100s of mg, but someone said recently it is poorly absorbed and suggested other forms.
I'm taking 1 gram 2Xday of thiamine hcl. This thiamine absorbs pretty poorly when taken orally so a large amount is required to compensate for that. TTFD thiamine absorbs great but some people (like me) experience bad reactions to it. My bad reaction was caused by my poor glutathione status. Thiamine hcl is known to raise glutathione levels which it did for me. I've got heavy metal poisoning which uses up the glutathione and also thiamine which is why I need to supplement it.
 
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I forgot the eggs. I also eat 2 eggs every day.
I didn't feel hungry when i went to bed yesterday.

So just fruit, fruit juices and root veggies for carbs and cheese, eggs and milk for protein?
I have eaten that way for months on hand....
I don’t eat root vegetables if I want to lose weight, I don’t drink fruit juices either. For me it is things like mozzarella, bone broth and one “corn and soy” free egg a day, liver via braunschweiger, shellfish and maybe some carne asada for beef if I get the craving. It seems marinated meat digests quicker for me. I eat sprouted Ezekiel or a sprouted date manna bread toasted with butter if I get a craving. I have been buying this raw white white whipped honey because it doesn’t taste like honey, but more like frosting instead and has been replacing my sugar intake. I make “Orange Julius” shakes with the zest and the juice of two oranges, a big spoonful of that white honey, a half cup of milk, a pinch of salt and ice and blend it in my Ninja blender, and will drink two a day sometimes. I eat artichoke hearts often, or will steamed an artichoke with drawn butter at night for dinner. I make broccoli soup with chicken bone broth, I eat fresh sweet watermelon with a side of mozzarella, and sometimes Keitt mango. Sometimes I eat a particular cottage cheese with a pinch of salt and a big spoonful of organic marmalade on top. I soak frozen berries overnight and sweeten the concoction with that white honey and pair it with cheese or my egg. It is about pairing things right so you don’t get hungry again soon, and starchy bread is just a shortcut, which adds nothing compared to protein and live raw honey and fruits. Just look at the two plates side by side, fruit and honey and a 3 stale rice cakes with butter, and say there is not going to be a big difference in what your body gives you back eating each plate. Eat what you could forage and hunt for, it is what has been perfectly made for our bodies, pizza and rice cakes not so much. Your body is gonna have to slow down to sort out that business.
 

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mostlylurking

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I think you wrote this in another thread and I`m going to try it.
Be patient and consistent; the weight loss surprised me when I weighed myself after taking the 4 doses/day for 3-4 months. I wasn't taking it for weight loss.
 

Peatful

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@Rinse & rePeat, I like the idea of mixing instant coffee in milk. will give it a try. I try to eat enough cheese to get calcium. Honey - I can't stay consistent, cause I only can handle so much (taste wise). As for the protein - I gained also on 80 - 100 g of protein a day. At 50, i wonder if I ought to follow Ray's more recent recommendations to lower protein intake. Plus, carbs are supposed to spare protein.

@Peatful and @Vinny I am not sure how horrible the sour dough bread is. I have experimented with all kinds of combos over the years and I haven't noticed a direct relationship with or without. Not sure 2 slices will make or break it. I can certainly try without again and see what happens.

@ Vinney, hopefully your health is in decent shape. This was one thing I didn't mention. my health, overall got better. I haven't been getting as many colds and flues for example after going Peaty and energy has been high. I am pretty sure that life's stress packed on the fat on my body, so being depressed about this would make matters worse. Hope you can lighten up the depression mate. Maybe keep in mind that you are not your body. Hopefully we will crack the "code".

@Hans, Keeping a slight deficit was certainly easier on the "croissant" diet (more fat), but yes, energy levels weren't great. Also, while not strict this regard, i do prefer being vegetarian (keeping dairy and eggs). Lets see...
How big of an effect do you think supplementing with stuff that supports glucuronidation (cardamom, milk thistle, etc.) can have?

@xeliex, I wasn't aware of that. Although, in my case, as I mentioned, it seemed to be much more pronounced with caffeine pills, versus coffee. Are you also an "Elie"?


By the way, I noticed a post below by Nate, who seemed to succeed in this regard by having shrimp as a major source of protein + taurine. he says Taurine keeps water accumulation under control, and If I read correctly, he says water stimulated fat storage? is anyone familiar with mechanisms that describe how that happens?
No no

Im sorry

Im doing 14 things at one time and i was cryptic

I think you are in a stressed state
Underfed with a very limited diet that’s not working at all for you

Your metabolism is tanked
 
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