Can Niacinamide Increase Serotonin?

[Peata]

1 gram of niacinamide produced a sort of anti-anxiety effect.

 

[InterrogaOmnia]

1 gram of niacinamide produced a sort of anti-anxiety effect.

I noticed the same effect in a sort of profound way. It's kind of mind boggling because I'm usually very anxious. I've also noticed a reduction in fatigue and the amount of time I need to sleep. I started taking 3 - 500 milligram doses about 4 days ago.

 

[Peata]

1 gram of niacinamide produced a sort of anti-anxiety effect.

I noticed the same effect in a sort of profound way. It's kind of mind boggling because I'm usually very anxious. I've also noticed a reduction in fatigue and the amount of time I need to sleep. I started taking 3 - 500 milligram doses about 4 days ago.

Sounds good. I also started about 4 days ago. I take anywhere from 100mg - 1g+ so far. I seem to be over the worst of the anxiety/stress effects from the last week, so I'll probably go to a lower dose of 100 mg.

I noticed that I needed less sleep a long time ago, pretty much just from the woe, I think.

I feel that B1 (thiamine) gives me energy and motivation I didn't use to have. Not in a hyper kind of way, just where I feel like getting things accomplished and do it without the usual putting it off.

 

[charlie]

I feel that B1 (thiamine) gives me energy and motivation I didn't use to have. Not in a hyper kind of way, just where I feel like getting things accomplished and do it without the usual putting it off.

Sorry if I missed it but how much B1 are you taking?

 

[Peata]

I feel that B1 (thiamine) gives me energy and motivation I didn't use to have. Not in a hyper kind of way, just where I feel like getting things accomplished and do it without the usual putting it off.

Sorry if I missed it but how much B1 are you taking?

250 mg. Sometimes 500 mg. if I really think I need the extra boost, but that might be a psychological thing (meaning I'm not sure if doubling the dose really doubles my motivation).

The kind I'm taking is just something I picked up since I didn't want to wait on mail order to try it. It's full of fillers and crap (it's Spring Valley brand from Walmart). But I don't seem to have a problem with the tiny amounts of stuff like that the way other people seem to. When I run out of this I may look for a purer form. Anyway, it's thiamin mononitrate. It also includes 110 mg. calcium carbonate for whatever reason.

 

[charlie]

The kind I'm taking is just something I picked up since I didn't want to wait on mail order to try it. It's full of fillers and crap (it's Spring Valley brand from Walmart). But I don't seem to have a problem with the tiny amounts of stuff like that the way other people seem to. When I run out of this I may look for a purer form. Anyway, it's thiamin mononitrate. It also includes 110 mg. calcium carbonate for whatever reason.

Last week I wanted zinc and did not want to wait for mail order like you. So I hit up all the pharmacies in my area scoping out what they had. At Riteaid I was able to find a line of supplements made by "PharmAssure" which seem to be pretty good with not too much excipients. It will be my go to brand now if I need something quick and local.

 

[Peata]

I forgot to mention I started taking B6 along with B1. I was already taking an energy drink powder most days that has some B vitamins.

 

[haidut]

According to this article niacinamide does elevate serotonin in the blood:

http://www.actaps.com.cn/qikan/manage/w ... 3-1-05.pdf

Excess nicotinamide increases plasma serotonin and histamine levels.

Tian YJ, Li D, Ma Q, Gu XY, Guo M, Lun YZ, Sun WP, Wang XY, Cao Y, Zhou SS.

Source

Institute of Basic Medical Sciences, Medical College, Dalian University, Dalian 116622, China; Department of Neurology, Zhongshan Hospital Affiliated to Dalian University, Dalian 116001, China; College of Environmental and Chemical Engineering, Dalian University, Dalian 116622, China; Department of Physiology, Institute of Basic Medical Sciences, China Medical University, Shenyang 110001, China. E-mail: [email protected].


Abstract


Methylation, a methyl group-consuming reaction, plays a key role in the degradation (i.e., inactivation) of monoamine neurotransmitters, including catecholamines, serotonin and histamine. Without labile methyl groups, the methylation-mediated degradation cannot take place. Although high niacin (nicotinic acid and nicotinamide) intake, which is very common nowadays, is known to deplete the body's methyl-group pool, its effect on monoamine-neurotransmitter degradation is not well understood. The aim of this article was to investigate the effect of excess nicotinamide on the levels of plasma serotonin and histamine in healthy subjects. Urine and venous blood samples were collected from nine healthy male volunteers before and after oral loading with 100 mg nicotinamide. Plasma N(1)-methylnicotinamide, urinary N(1)-methyl-2-pyridone-5-carboxamide (2-Py), and plasma betaine levels were measured by using high-performance liquid chromatography (HPLC). Plasma concentrations of choline, serotonin and histamine were measured using commercial kits. The results showed that the plasma N(1)-methylnicotinamide level and the urinary excretion of 2-Py significantly increased after oral loading with 100 mg nicotinamide, which was accompanied with a decrease in the methyl-group donor betaine. Compared with those before nicotinamide load, five-hour postload plasma serotonin and histamine levels significantly increased. These results suggest that excess nicotinamide can disturb monoamine-neurotransmitter metabolism. These findings may be of significance in understanding the etiology of monoamine-related mental diseases, such as schizophrenia and autism (a neurodevelopmental disorder).

That's all very good and dandy, but keep in mind that this effect was observed with normal physiological nicotinamide/niacinamide doses. The study I posted earlier in this thread would correspond to human values of 4,000mg-8,000mg which would be a monstrous dose if you follow the RDA. I have personally taken it for 7 days in a row and the effects are..ahem..stiff. I think you get the idea. If somebody has the guts (pun intended) to try the "lower" dose of 4,000mg then maybe we can get a confirmation of sorts on the effects of high dose NAM. I am just warning everybody that at those doses (as my study clearly pointed out) niaciamide/nicotinamide is a POWERFUL sedative and at high doses its high life exceeds 24 hours. So, if you do decide to try it out be prepared to be kind of both asleep and erect the next day (again pun intended).

 

[j.]

haidut, do you take thyroid as well?

 

[haidut]

Also, there is a much older article about the role of nicotinamide on uptake and release of serotonin, in which very high doses of nicotinamide are used in the brain cortex of diabetic rats:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8588246

Ukr Biokhim Zh. 1995 Jan-Feb;67(1):105-11.

[Effect of nicotinamide on the uptake and release of serotonin and GABA by cerebral cortex synaptosomes in rats with diabetes induced by streptozotocin].
[Article in Russian]
Donchenko GV, Kuchmerovskaia TM, Parkhomets PK, Obrosova IG, Klimenko AP, Efimov AS.

Abstract
Studies of neurotransmitter uptake and release by isolated rats brain cortex synaptosomes demonstrated that [2-14C]serotonin uptake was by 41% lower in streptozotocin-diabetic rats as compared to control. The [U-14C]GABA uptake was considerably elevated. [2-14C]serotonin and [U-14C]GABA release from the neurotransmitter pre-loaded synaptosomes showed significant elevation, especially during the first 3 minutes. Nicotinamide (NAm) administration (200 mg/kg body weight daily, 14 days) to diabetic rats restored synaptosomal serotonin uptake up to control levels, while the GABA uptake tended to decrease in diabetic rats. With this dose of NAm the partial restoration of serotonin and GABA release was achieved. The modulating effect of in vivo administered NAm acts via NAD which binds specifically with synaptic membranes. It has been shown that brain NAD(P)/NAD(P)H decreased while sorbitol level increased in streptozotocin-diabetic rats as compared to control. The NAm administration to diabetic rats is accompanied by the increase of NAD(P)/NAD(P)H and the reduction of brain sorbitol level. Data obtained confirm the important role of NAm in the pathogenesis of diabetic encephalopathies.

Actually, I think with this study you got it backwards. It does not show increase of serotonin but a "decrease" of sorts. Remember, we want a HIGH uptake of serotonin so that it does not freely float around. In one of Ray's article he talks about how caffeine "promotes uptake of serotonin" and how that is a good thing. In addition, the drug tianeptine is a Selective Serotonin Reuptake Enhancer (SSRE) and is used to lower levels of serotonin by, well, increasing uptake. Here is the quote from the posted study:

"Studies of neurotransmitter uptake and release by isolated rats brain cortex synaptosomes demonstrated that [2-14C]serotonin uptake was by 41% lower in streptozotocin-diabetic rats as compared to control. The [U-14C]GABA uptake was considerably elevated. [2-14C]serotonin and [U-14C]GABA release from the neurotransmitter pre-loaded synaptosomes showed significant elevation, especially during the first 3 minutes. Nicotinamide (NAm) administration (200 mg/kg body weight daily, 14 days) to diabetic rats restored synaptosomal serotonin uptake up to control levels"

So, niacinamide / nicotinamide administration of what amounts to a human dose of about 2,500mg a day resulted in normalizing serotonin uptake to the levels of control animals. So, niacinamide does indeed lower serotonin in this dose in a manner similar to tianeptine.

 

[charlie]

That's all very good and dandy, but keep in mind that this effect was observed with normal physiological nicotinamide/niacinamide doses. The study I posted earlier in this thread would correspond to human values of 4,000mg-8,000mg which would be a monstrous dose if you follow the RDA. I have personally taken it for 7 days in a row and the effects are..ahem..stiff.

Ok, how much do I need to take? I will try it.

I do wonder if my niacinamide is OK because its started clumping and probably over a year old now. And my metabolism seems to decrease with even small amounts of it.

 

[haidut]

haidut, do you take thyroid as well?

I do. I take quarter tablet Cynoplus in the morning and another quarter tablet at night. Next week I will up it to 3 quarter tablets (morning, lunch, dinner). Make sure to take with sufficient protein. For me, that means taking 35g-40g of protein with each meal with which I am planning to take the Cynoplus. Also, since protein lowers blood sugar I consume about 60g of fructose powder with the high protein meals.

 

[j.]

I do. I take quarter tablet Cynoplus in the morning and another quarter tablet at night. Next week I will up it to 3 quarter tablets (morning, lunch, dinner).

Have you started just recently?

 

[charlie]

I think you get the idea. If somebody has the guts (pun intended) to try the "lower" dose of 4,000mg then maybe we can get a confirmation of sorts on the effects of high dose NAM. I am just warning everybody that at those doses (as my study clearly pointed out) niaciamide/nicotinamide is a POWERFUL sedative and at high doses its high life exceeds 24 hours. So, if you do decide to try it out be prepared to be kind of both asleep and erect the next day (again pun intended).

Ok, I am gonna go for the 4000mg. Do you see any problems other then tired and erect? lol

 

[j.]

Ok, I am gonna go for the 4000mg. Do you see any problems other then tired and erect? lol

How's that a problem? Anyway, looking forward to hearing the results.

Want to try it, too, but have to make some money before I can buy more supplements.

 

[loess]

Charlie: our resident Jacque Cousteau of the Starship Peaterprise, plunging into the unknown frontiers of niacinamidom...

 

[charlie]

Charlie: our resident Jacque Cousteau of the Starship Peaterprise, plunging into to the unknown frontiers of niacinamidom...

Peaterprise.

High dose niacinamide log:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2782

 

[charlie]

Ok, I am gonna go for the 4000mg. Do you see any problems other then tired and erect? lol

How's that a problem? Anyway, looking forward to hearing the results.

Want to try it, too, but have to make some money before I can buy more supplements.

Well, it's not. lol I stand corrected.

 

[haidut]

I do. I take quarter tablet Cynoplus in the morning and another quarter tablet at night. Next week I will up it to 3 quarter tablets (morning, lunch, dinner).

Have you started just recently?

Yes, I was taking dessicated from Thailand for some time and I never got it give me results. So, now I am on Cynoplus and I am following the schedule outlined in that post by Lita Lee, where you start with gives you the minimum acceptable results and then you up the dosage every 2 weeks.

 

[haidut]

Ok, I am gonna go for the 4000mg. Do you see any problems other then tired and erect? lol

How's that a problem? Anyway, looking forward to hearing the results.

Want to try it, too, but have to make some money before I can buy more supplements.

Well, it's not. lol I stand corrected.

I have no problem with sleepy and erect. I don't think you'd be tired. For me it's was a very unique feeling. The best I can compare it to would be if you have ever been given Valium or any other kind of benzo. I posted some studies that niacinamide binds to the same benzo "receptor" as Valium / Xanax and the results are similar/identical psychologically. I was very mellow and relaxed (actually a bit too much, almost drowsy) without a worry about anything, and with funny side effect down there. I would NOT drive in that condition or do anything that requires significant coordination and/or reaction time. Best to do it on a weekend when you can just load up on Friday night, spend Saturday in bliss, and then slowly return to normal on Sunday. Believe it or not, some doctors in Russia use this as an easy/cheap way to get people off of "addiction" to benzos. Load them up on niacinamide and they get the same effects, but it is not addictive.
I don't advocate this in any way, just stating that if you believe in benzodiazepine "receptors" then niacinamide in doses 4,000mg - 8,000mg is basically indistinguishable from Valium / Xanax in terms of binding affinity at the receptor and activity.
Incidentally, benzos have a well documented effect of raising testosterone so they probably act via a similar pathway - i.e. lower serotonin in the brain.
Just my 2c.